Looks bad that Lasco transferred out in July. He was on the Florida Vipers team that is named heavily in the trial.
Corruption trial may affect us.
- Thread starter Victorbmyboy
- Start date
Very tiny exception. Please tell me what you think IU did wrong here. An asst. coach asked for an update on a player that IU was curious about but not so much that he ever got an offer. Someone else claimed that IU was ready to "do what it takes" to recruit a kid that... once again, IU never offered.
Where is there an issue here? Why is this a story?
That's the beauty of the cheating, right? All payments signed and sealed before any offers.
I hate to say it, but this is a strike against Archie for the company he is keeping (or directing). If the whole Adidas thing went down with Langford's Dad, then it's strike 2.
Indiana doesn't pay kids to play. Ive always felt that was part or all of the reason Crean got rid of Kenny Johnson. He was playing around in the mud.
I can't stand cheating.
1. No, I highly doubt that.
2. For what?
3. For what?
4. Clean Crean narrative is always funny. They took a candid poll of coaches in 2012. his peers judge him as a cheat. Just because he couldn't win, doesn't make him clean, just incompetent. Link
5. Quit watching NCAA basketball until the rules fit the reality.
Wow! Let's relax a little. It's 2018 nobody cares about cheating anymore. New flash: NCAA doesn't want to catch anybody it's bad for business
Take a deep breath...NCAA is more corrupt than federal government. They don't want to catch schools cheating
Timing doesn't make sense. Last year we had a full team when Race committed in July so...when was this supposed text?
I'd believe it more if DeSousa was coming into his freshman year...not last year.
Not that I would be shocked if Archie was found out to cheat...just that I don't think there's anything here.
We didn't sign the kid. We didn't have him visit. We didn't offer. We didn't have room.
I'd be much more worried if Ostrom texted that in regards to Romeo since ya know, we actually recruited him.
I'd believe it more if DeSousa was coming into his freshman year...not last year.
Not that I would be shocked if Archie was found out to cheat...just that I don't think there's anything here.
We didn't sign the kid. We didn't have him visit. We didn't offer. We didn't have room.
I'd be much more worried if Ostrom texted that in regards to Romeo since ya know, we actually recruited him.
Ostrem's quote suggests, does not prove, but suggests that money could be involved. That goes with the territory of knowing who you are going after and hearing stories about what coaches are offering those kids. Under those auspices, a comment such as he made, would imply money to anyone. I don't want to believe that, but it is what it sounds like.
Miller would know if Romeo's dad was paid by Adidas to start an AAU team and whether Adidas then steered him to an Adidas school. It doesn't matter if Miller paid or offered anything, it only matters if Romeo's decision was influenced by Adidas payments. If it was, then it is a recruiting violation. Again, not saying I believe that has been proven, but there was at least some leads on it. That simply cannot be a startegy for IU hoops nor the standard for bringing in talent. For years and years there was no cheating. If it is happening now then the people doing it....well, it would be the coaches involved. The head coach is where the buck stops.
So it sounds bad, and where there is smoke, fans of a team generally look the other way. What I am saying is it sounds like Miller, whom is already related to a cheater (his brother), may be playing in muddy waters. If that is happening at IU, I want no part of it.
I can't prove that. I don't want it to be true. Im just saying I don't support any influence to lure recruits by going outside the rules.
I just hope it isn't true, but that's as much as I can say on it.
Read it again... there is no quote from Ostrom. There is a mention of an update, and then the writer of the text (not Ostrom) says that Indiana is willing to do what it takes (whatever that means) to recruit the kid. Obviously, he was mistaken as IU didn't really recruit the kid.
Don't read into the comment what wasn't actually said. There's nothing here. Maybe something will surface in the future, but from what has been reported? It's nothing.
There are people that know what is going on behind the scenes and there are people that think they know, you are in the latter category.
His brother allegedly did and who did he learn from? I'm guessing he's not that stupid.
"Allegedly did". What does that phrase meant to you? What does the word "allegedly" mean? Innocent until proven guilty and you already have Archie learning from his cheating brother. Go back to west laffy and leave big brother alone.
Dakich is also dependent on ratings, he needs people to tune in. So, of course he’ll say “there’s something more here”, this is vague and will keep people listening. If he says “nah, this story is over, no biggie”, he is risking losing listeners.
Personally, I enjoy DD’s show and listen when I can. He’s pretty knowledgeable about the inner workings of college b-ball and I like hearing his stories. I find him pretty funny sometimes as well. I really enjoy listening when Don Fischer calls in.
The above post argues that IU should cheat because one must to win big. Really? It's ok? Everyone does it? Gotta do it? You kiddin' me? Well I strongly disagree.
1. Cheating is not a victimless problem. College sports dishonesty gives cheaters an unfair advantage over honest teams, misleads proud parents and dedicated fans.
2. Cheating creates a culture of mistrust. How would you feel if you knew your surgeon had cheated on a medical exam..or an airplane pilot cheated in flight school? What about the restaurant dishwasher that doesn't clean dishes well? Or on any contract, an agreement, financial transaction, spouse or friend?
3. Small acts of disobedience and incivility lead to more serious actions or crimes. Yeah, no one is watching...think I will push this envelope too. Let's all be casual about more serious crimes.
4.Cheating devalues wins. Yeah, it's ok for Kentucky to cheat so IU should too. Look at their tradition, sure wish IU was Kentucky or UNC or Kansas or... Think I am going to be ill.
I hate the losing...but if you play the game you might lose. Man up. Do it the right way. It's part of the game of life.
Really depends on whether one is civil and accepts some responsibility for one's actions...and respects others. If you truly believe that there is no social contract then I believe that that is sad. I wish for a better world. Sure, I slip up, too. But overall...let's be civil in all we do.
And schools should stand firm and represent education, the state, the institution, society, and their students with above reproach ethics..
Agree 100%. People from IU are just more civil and all around better than KU or UK.
How do I know this? Because our basketball team doesn't play in the grey area (we think).
Archie just needs to get him some ball players in here, like Bobby used to do. I don’t care how he does it, and that idiot Dokich can go take a long walk off a short peer as far as I’m concerned!!
This is just too much fun to resist... let's take this one phrase at a time, shall we?
"Archie just needs to get him some ball players in here"
I'm pretty sure that has already been accomplished. I recall reading about a freshman class that has quite a few highly valued players in it. I think one of them may have some kind of Shakespearian name.
"like Bobby used to do."
Oh. In an ethical way without cheating.
"I don't care how he does it"
Oh. An unethical way (unlike Bobby) is fine after all. Got it.
"and that idiot Dokich"
Who? You mean Dakich? One of those ball players that Bobby brought in that you liked?
"can go take a long walk off a short peer"
As he is in radio now, I'll assume that most of his peers are shorter than he is.
Nope, don't agree. This holier than thou stance is for the birds. I refuse to be okay losing to teams that cheat while they go on to win national titles and we are all sitting at home in April. Trust me, their fans don't give a sh*t either while they're beating the brakes off us with better players. Winning is the name of the game and if the NCAA let's them get away with it then so can we.
Some people entangle their morality with their sports allegiances. It's weird.
It's exacerbated in our fan base because we have a lot of dust farter's that grew up in Indiana where basketball was gospel.
I like watching IUBB win, it's fun. I don't think about it much deeper than that.
Ratings. Ratings. Ratings. He said twice that nothing will come of this, but telling the audience to tune for his super secret dirt is done when the numbers ain't good.
I'm not bothered by it. We don't know any context. If it happened to be the worst case scenario then, of course, I wouldn't like it.
Beyond that. Show me some proof of wrong doing. This is still America.
So we allegedly were willing to do anything to land a player we did not offer? What happened, did we just forget to extend an offer? This seems like a non-story.
Villanova was cheating? Loyola of Chicago, too? Damn. I guess everybody who has a good year is cheating. I never knew. I guess IU should cheat too. After all, everyone should cheat if they can get away with it. Although I must have missed the class where that was taught when I went to IU.
(sarcasm alert)
Well, Creighton was cheating so.....
Honestly, I want to play by the rules, however, there seems to be an unwritten rule out there right now whereby people feel the players are not getting their full value and people are finding a way to get it to them. And the NCAA is completely fine with this as long as plausible deniability allows them to protect their "amateur" status and the billions they make. The elite schools are making money hand over fist off of this arrangement and Indiana has tried to maintain cleaner hands in a land of thieves to the detriment of the program and the University.
If all the big boys are doing it and nothing ever happens to them, then it is not a rule IMO. The NCAA has turned payments to players into speeding. You get a 7 to 10 mph cushion before people care. So I am fine with IU not sticking to the speed limit anymore because the authorities (the NCAA) don't seem to give a shit despite what their code book says. Just occupy that cushion that guys like Cal, Self, Coach K, and Ol' Roy have been driving at for the past 20 years. The NCAA promotes the hell out of those coaches and those programs. Speeding gets you where you want to go quicker. So speed away Archie. Just make sure you occupy the safe gray area.
I was not a Crean fan...man I had hopes...but I wasn't....I can tell you from a pretty small circle that goes straight to the IU athletic department...they guy was on the "up and up" ... he fired a few folks who weren't
There is always that which you know.
There is always that which you don't.
I stand strongly with...with data and people I trust...that we, IU, are not in the crowd of cheaters.
I love this argument, neither you or I have any idea what other schools are doing. All we know is what is found and reported by the FBI or the NCAA. You know Creighton just got busted right? Who would've thought they were dirty? I don't want take anything away from Loyola but they took advantage of a busted bracket where the best team they played was a KSU team with their best player injured. Then promptly got stomped in the final 4, they will never be actual title contenders.
All of the power programs that you consistently find in the final 4 competing for titles have been implicated/rumored towards some sort of wrongdoing to help them recruit. Kansas, Duke, Carolina, UK, Syracuse, UConn, Louisville and even MSU who is in the same conference with us, not to mention consistently steals players out of our own state.
You want to know what else those programs have in common? They have all been to multiple final 4s since IU last sniffed one, and they've all won titles since the last time IU has even been close. If Archie doesn't win then he will get fired, that's why I don't even really blame the coaches that are caught up in this mess.
By the way I'm not saying to park the Brinks truck outside their house. I'm just saying let the shoe companies do their thing, like every other major power does. Don't be afraid of the grey area because the top programs who are where we want to be sure as hell aren't.
DeSousa just got benched for Kansas and all their board is talking about is their depth at center. None of those programs care because they know nothing will come of it long term. The only reason we make such a big deal about it is because we haven't won sh*t since Ronald Reagan was in the white house. Hell none of those programs even got much more than a slap on the wrist for breaking the rules. Screw the NCAA.
Rumor now is that we never offered DeSousa anything and Olstrom was just talking about playing time, so we are in the clear just like we always were anyway.
Just for the sake of argument, I'll concede the "detriment of the program", but how in the world has running a clean basketball program been a detriment to the University???
Money.
There is a very big correlation between the success of sports teams and benefits to the school itself.
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebas...3340/study-hoops-success-begets-more-students
Look at Alabama's enrollment numbers. There is a definitive jump that correlates to the success of their football program.
http://oira.ua.edu/factbook/reports...l-student-enrollment-by-sex-1944-to-present-/
Donations tend to increase around successful sports programs.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...among-other-areas-correlated-football-success
This last post is not what the poster said earlier. This what SI said early in this thread, in part..."If the NCAA is going to let Carolina get away with fake classes, Louisville get off scott free from here in out after all that bs, coach K's shadyness, Kentucky's 100 year history of cheating and hiring known cheaters then to hell with em. IU just needs to get better at it." This is what I took issue with.
SI then goes on and says playing in accordance with the rules and supporting fair play is a "...holier than thou.." position and SI takes issue with it.
Finding a way to get the shoe companies to treat players and schools fairly and above board so the NCAA is somewhat respectable is not the issue that SI referred to earlier.
The issue is good sportsmanship. That and being stewards of the public trust. Teaching college students and being good role models...these are what we are talking about. In accounting it is generally accepted accounting principles such as presenting fairly the information with the intent to comply with the rules.
SI says you gotta cut corners and do the shades of gray stuff. Such as...using his example...being like Kentucky...cheating and hiring known cheaters...we did hire Sampson...didn't watch him cheat just the way that he cheated before. Worked well for us didn't it? Then we turned ourselves in.
Some of our most treasured values, like integrity, respect and the preservation of a level playing field are being tossed away in the name of ambition and hollow victory. The fundamental principles of fair play cannot be discarded that easily. The future of sports and our youth and this civilization depends on it.
Winning and integrity are not mutually exclusive. It's the young adults themselves who are most harmed by unethical behavior. "Be more concerned with your character than your reputation." (Can you believe that John Wooden said that?) heh
In fairness, you're overreaching as well when you say stuff like this.
I think the argument by Adidas, these recruits, and many others would be....
"The NCAA is not treating these players fairly, so why should we play fairly with respect to their rules"
At least that's what I've been able to gather from this latest season of "Ballers"
Danny boy was clearly in damage control mode today walking back some of his rather obvious implications about IU. He closed the show with a shrill pledge that he had not accused anyone of anything at IU. Clearly some pressure was reaching network management.
Earlier in the show he dragged the bait by Matt Painter in a segment but he refused to bite. Good for Matt, I would never have expected him to.
Earlier in the show he dragged the bait by Matt Painter in a segment but he refused to bite. Good for Matt, I would never have expected him to.
Ok guys. The post said “may” affect us. It’s looking more likely we never hear anything. Still a shame that our once proud program is being mentioned at all. How UK and NC didn’t get named is baffling. Mods you are free to lock this thing up.
But Dakich pumped the ratings for a couple of days and the PU crowd is in a complete lather.
I know, I was the one that posted it. I have to be honest I only got through about half of your post. This might be one of those, "agree to disagree" situations.
Fred Glass came out in his press conference and said that he expects IU to consistently compete for the Big Ten and national titles. If Archie doesn't get us to that point then he'll get canned, simple as that.
That being said, IU didn't cheat here. Olstrom offered playing time and a major spot in the offense, that's it. When he realized it was going to cost money, we moved on and he committed to Kansas. This is all a made up story by Dakich to drive ratings and put down IU. Something he's become pretty good at.
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