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Coal miners reject retraining

Marvin the Martian

Marvin the Martian

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Reuters has a story on coal miners rejecting retraining, sure there jobs are about to return.

One interesting point to the story is that some areas have lost mining jobs because the coal has run out. In those area, retraining was successful and new jobs moved in. In areas where coal exists, other industries are not moving in. Personally I think that is due both to workers not retraining and coal pollution.

Natural gas is cheap, very cheap. Coal cannot compete. Even if it could, bowing off the tops of mountains requires far fewer workers than crawling deep within them. Most of those jobs are not coming back. Trump, and others, have lied to these people. They need retrained to attract other jobs. It is tragic they do not see that.
 
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If I planned to work for another twenty years I would need retraining too. Fortunately, I don't have such plans.
 
My claim to fame was writing an xorg.conf file that supported dual monitors with nVidia before that became all automagic. Which really wasn't that big a deal, but it was big for me, and impressed a couple people who didn't know any better.
 
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Lucy01 said:
You would have to be a idiot not to understand why they turned retraining down, For one if they were retrained where would they work, Coal mining is the only thing there and they won’t leave.
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New enterprises demand that there be a ready made, plug and play workforce available. Since the demise of the unions, the government has been the one to step in and do the necessary training. Not sure how effective these programs have been. The unions not only did the training, they also controlled who got hired. New hires in new enterprises will still be on their own, no matter who trained them.
 
Lucy01 said:
You would have to be a idiot not to understand why they turned retraining down, For one if they were retrained where would they work, Coal mining is the only thing there and they won’t leave.
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For many of the people in the mined out regions their surroundings are all they know, i.e. friends and common health issues related to said mining. Age and health are things that has taken many out of future jobs there or elsewhere. They are good proud people who worked in the bowels of the earth who, gained a large measure of respect from me when I was a coal mine inspector in the 70s. P.S. I worked just outside of Evansville In. at age 18 and was told by the operator of the mine coal dust was good for you! (Fake News).
 
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Meanwhile, happy news on the Trump job front.... :rolleyes:



I think he can definitely take some credit for the stock market. His promise of tax cuts and deregulation has got Wallstreet horny since inauguration.

Nevertheless, that's a remarkable drop: 42% down to 4.5%.

That's the 1st time I've seen him use the % measured by the Gov't. Normally he talks about the % drop, not the number itself. I guess he's changed his mind on how the unemployment numbers are measured! (Or he went into the Labour Dept and fixed it like he has everything else. #MAGA)

He should be taken to task for that. Never let the fecker get away his lies.
 
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It looks like Trump has found a way to get more coal needed, legally require utility companies to buy more coal. And we are going to subsidize coal to help it out.

Maybe I am slightly wrong about the miners, some but not all may go back to work. So, should we be subsidizing coal?
 
Marvin the Martian said:
It looks like Trump has found a way to get more coal needed, legally require utility companies to buy more coal. And we are going to subsidize coal to help it out.

Maybe I am slightly wrong about the miners, some but not all may go back to work. So, should we be subsidizing coal?
Click to expand...

Miner's argument, however short-sighted, would be that they subsidise everything else incl renewables. Mining is part of their cultural/personal identity.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
It looks like Trump has found a way to get more coal needed, legally require utility companies to buy more coal. And we are going to subsidize coal to help it out.

Maybe I am slightly wrong about the miners, some but not all may go back to work. So, should we be subsidizing coal?
Click to expand...

I'd be shocked if the FERC approves that rule.

Coal is failing because of market dynamics (cheap natural gas). Regulatory impacts are not that relevant....contrary to what Trump, Lucy and Ladoga say
 
Marvin the Martian said:
It looks like Trump has found a way to get more coal needed, legally require utility companies to buy more coal. And we are going to subsidize coal to help it out.

Maybe I am slightly wrong about the miners, some but not all may go back to work. So, should we be subsidizing coal?
Click to expand...

I don’t believe my tax dollars should go to these freeloaders. This is America. If you can’t make it, tough shit.
 
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sglowrider said:
Miner's argument, however short-sighted, would be that they subsidise everything else incl renewables. Mining is part of their cultural/personal identity.
Click to expand...

While true they subsidize renewables, renewables are not their biggest competitor. If they want coal demand back, outlaw fracking. The natural gas boom is due to fracking.
 
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sglowrider said:
Miner's argument, however short-sighted, would be that they subsidise everything else incl renewables. Mining is part of their cultural/personal identity.
Click to expand...

I’ll never understand someone that refuses to do anything other than something that’s horrible for their health. In coal mining, it’s not a matter of if you get hurt or get black lung, it’s a matter of how soon and how bad.

Seriously, these guys should jump at the chance to do something other than something that kills them.
 
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wiede said:
I’ll never understand someone that refuses to do anything other than something that’s horrible for their health. In coal mining, it’s not a matter of if you get hurt or get black lung, it’s a matter of how soon and how bad.

Seriously, these guys should jump at the chance to do something other than something that kills them.
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There is no place to jump to. Win, lose, or draw the mountains are their life.
 
sglowrider said:
Miner's argument, however short-sighted, would be that they subsidise everything else incl renewables. Mining is part of their cultural/personal identity.
Click to expand...
The miners are as our president knows well, the same term Wall Street uses on companies in the materials sector who have deep pockets.
 
sglowrider said:
Meanwhile, happy news on the Trump job front.... :rolleyes:

View embedded media


I think he can definitely take some credit for the stock market. His promise of tax cuts and deregulation has got Wallstreet horny since inauguration.

Nevertheless, that's a remarkable drop: 42% down to 4.5%.

That's the 1st time I've seen him use the % measured by the Gov't. Normally he talks about the % drop, not the number itself. I guess he's changed his mind on how the unemployment numbers are measured! (Or he went into the Labour Dept and fixed it like he has everything else. #MAGA)

He should be taken to task for that. Never let the fecker get away his lies.
Click to expand...
Yeah! but what about wages going up or inflation? No problem just ignore.
 
gmhowes said:
There is no place to jump to. Win, lose, or draw the mountains are their life.
Click to expand...

That's fine . . . but that decision is on them. I moved decades ago, largely because I like to eat . . . well, that and Indiana cloudiness was depressing . . . .
 
wiede said:
I’ll never understand someone that refuses to do anything other than something that’s horrible for their health. In coal mining, it’s not a matter of if you get hurt or get black lung, it’s a matter of how soon and how bad.

Seriously, these guys should jump at the chance to do something other than something that kills them.
Click to expand...

I think its a circular argument. If they were smart enough, they would have jumped at another chance to do something safer for their health. Instead, they hang on to this being their 'cultural identity' ... passed down from the days of their papi.
I remember helping out an elderly at her home every friday (as part of my school's community service/activities) when I was 14. The old lady would tell me of her siblings -- I think all the men, like 7 out of 9 kids were all dead from black lungs. They were all welsh miners and werent that old when they departed. She was the only one left in her family but with a steel plate in her back.
Even then, I was thinking... there are just certain jobs you just don't do. And back in those days, there were fewer options and certainly no such thing as re-training programs unlike that being offered to these guys.
 
in previous eras, Michael Jordan, Steve Wosniak, and Puff Daddy might all be skid row residents.

success has a lot to do with timing, and do the skills and desires you posses, monetize well in the era you live in.

success often is influenced by whether what you do well and what you love, easily translate into money.

we could pretend that it's always and only about initiative and work ethic. it isn't. luck plays a part in success, like it does in most everything else.

hard to be motivated to do something you hate, and/or are not good at.

if what you love and are good at, tons of people love and are good at, that doesn't work in your favor even if it's a monetizable skill.

when what we like to do and are good at are easily monetized in the era we live in, and not that many love and are good at it, we are seen as wonderful people.

when it isn't, we are seen as bums and failures.
 
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sglowrider said:
I think its a circular argument. If they were smart enough, they would have jumped at another chance to do something safer for their health. Instead, they hang on to this being their 'cultural identity' ... passed down from the days of their papi.
I remember helping out an elderly at her home every friday (as part of my school's community service/activities) when I was 14. The old lady would tell me of her siblings -- I think all the men, like 7 out of 9 kids were all dead from black lungs. They were all welsh miners and werent that old when they departed. She was the only one left in her family but with a steel plate in her back.
Even then, I was thinking... there are just certain jobs you just don't do. And back in those days, there were fewer options and certainly no such thing as re-training programs unlike that being offered to these guys.
Click to expand...
Perfect representation of a Democratic elitist attitude.
 
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wiede said:
I’ll never understand someone that refuses to do anything other than something that’s horrible for their health. In coal mining, it’s not a matter of if you get hurt or get black lung, it’s a matter of how soon and how bad.

Seriously, these guys should jump at the chance to do something other than something that kills them.
Click to expand...

The title of the thread should be “Coal miners reject reality”
 
sglowrider said:
I think its a circular argument. If they were smart enough, they would have jumped at another chance to do something safer for their health. Instead, they hang on to this being their 'cultural identity' ... passed down from the days of their papi.
I remember helping out an elderly at her home every friday (as part of my school's community service/activities) when I was 14. The old lady would tell me of her siblings -- I think all the men, like 7 out of 9 kids were all dead from black lungs. They were all welsh miners and werent that old when they departed. She was the only one left in her family but with a steel plate in her back.
Even then, I was thinking... there are just certain jobs you just don't do. And back in those days, there were fewer options and certainly no such thing as re-training programs unlike that being offered to these guys.
Click to expand...

I think it is more culture identity than intelligence when picking their jobs. I’d bet people don’t typically move from Appalachia to the Pacific Northwest to become loggers, or vice versa. Like a lot of people they probably want to stay relatively close to home and they pick a job based on their physical ability and what it pays.

What I think is very much related to intelligence is the bullshit they buy and vote for over and over.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Reuters has a story on coal miners rejecting retraining, sure there jobs are about to return.

One interesting point to the story is that some areas have lost mining jobs because the coal has run out. In those area, retraining was successful and new jobs moved in. In areas where coal exists, other industries are not moving in. Personally I think that is due both to workers not retraining and coal pollution.

Natural gas is cheap, very cheap. Coal cannot compete. Even if it could, bowing off the tops of mountains requires far fewer workers than crawling deep within them. Most of those jobs are not coming back. Trump, and others, have lied to these people. They need retrained to attract other jobs. It is tragic they do not see that.
Click to expand...

legalize pot.

agriculture is as American as apple pie.

Mass and Main are currently the only other legal states within 2,000 miles. (i think maybe DC is legal to use, but not grow or sell).

better hurry though. New England could be a green stronghold soon, and the rest of the backward states will eventually figure it out. (i'm betting Indiana to be last, and Iran and Saudi Arabia to be full recreational before Indiana allows even medical).
 
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