Coal miners reject retraining

[twenty02]

Reuters has a story on coal miners rejecting retraining, sure there jobs are about to return.

One interesting point to the story is that some areas have lost mining jobs because the coal has run out. In those area, retraining was successful and new jobs moved in. In areas where coal exists, other industries are not moving in. Personally I think that is due both to workers not retraining and coal pollution.

Natural gas is cheap, very cheap. Coal cannot compete. Even if it could, bowing off the tops of mountains requires far fewer workers than crawling deep within them. Most of those jobs are not coming back. Trump, and others, have lied to these people. They need retrained to attract other jobs. It is tragic they do not see that.

Politico has a piece showing how the Trump base in coal country are lazy moochers (Social security office busiest building in town) who refuse to retrain and take jobs that are available as machinists, welders, etc...

They also really don't like non-white people.

They also intend to vote for Trump no matter what he does (or doesn't do).

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...rump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

 

[iuwclurker1]

Politico has a piece showing how the Trump base in coal country are lazy moochers (Social security office busiest building in town) who refuse to retrain and take jobs that are available as machinists, welders, etc...

They also really don't like non-white people.

They also intend to vote for Trump no matter what he does (or doesn't do).

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...rump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

Right, because when Trump won, it was the first time they ever won anything in their life. They want some more of that good stuff.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Right, because when Trump won, it was the first time they ever won anything in their life. They want some more of that good stuff.

They finally got rid of that uppity...

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Politico has a piece showing how the Trump base in coal country are lazy moochers (Social security office busiest building in town) who refuse to retrain and take jobs that are available as machinists, welders, etc...

They also really don't like non-white people.

They also intend to vote for Trump no matter what he does (or doesn't do).

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...rump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

A buddy of mine was complaining earlier that Politico buried the lead by putting that last paragraph in as the last paragraph. I don't know if it is fair, but when some of us have spoken about gamer gate and Bannon et al and everything else, these were the voters being targeted. It just so happens they are in enough numbers to flip most of the rust belt.

The scary part, no matter what Trump does or doesn't do he has their full support. They make that quite clear.

 

[iuwclurker1]

A buddy of mine was complaining earlier that Politico buried the lead by putting that last paragraph in as the last paragraph. I don't know if it is fair, but when some of us have spoken about gamer gate and Bannon et al and everything else, these were the voters being targeted. It just so happens they are in enough numbers to flip most of the rust belt.

The scary part, no matter what Trump does or doesn't do he has their full support. They make that quite clear.

Coal country isn't the rust belt. Also, these are anecdotal stories. PBS and others tend to find people on both sides when they do such stories. A lot of people are hoping Trump will help them and are taking a wait-and-see attitude. They're not wedded to Trump. There are also a lot of young people in coal country who want any future. And there are people in coal country who are sick as dogs and the healthcare there sucks.

The real question is what percentage of Trumpsters are diehard. Not enough if he fecks them over the way we all know he will. Same goes for the rust belt. Maybe moreso. I think most of these people had good union jobs and their life capsized when they lost them. They want their lifestyle back. They'll vote for the one who gives them the most confidence.

 

[gmhowes]

The title of the thread should be “Coal miners reject reality”

Ever heard the term coal Barron? Look up Ludlow Co. massacre and read about reality.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Ever heard the term coal Barron? Look up Ludlow Co. massacre and read about reality.

No

 

[gmhowes]

No

I would never vote for Trump and politics of the same one you assume all miners are guilty of are the ones who own the massacre, Standard Oil would be a good read, really.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

I would never vote for Trump and politics of the same one you assume all miners are guilty of are the ones who own the massacre, Standard Oil would be a good read, really.

I don’t buy the argument that all politics are the same (if that’s what you’re sort of implying here). Had Gore been elected over Bush, I believe we would not have wasted thousands of live and billions of dollars in Iraq. We probably wouldn’t have Citizens United either. Had Clinton not underperformed by the slimmest of margins in a few key places we likely wouldn’t have an idiot in charge of education, a racist as AG, or a guy who hates the environment in charge of the EPA. We also wouldn’t have a Russian puppet in the WH.

 

[CradleofBasketball]

legalize pot.

agriculture is as American as apple pie.

Mass and Main are currently the only other legal states within 2,000 miles. (i think maybe DC is legal to use, but not grow or sell).

better hurry though. New England could be a green stronghold soon, and the rest of the backward states will eventually figure it out. (i'm betting Indiana to be last, and Iran and Saudi Arabia to be full recreational before Indiana allows even medical).

... doobies for everyone. "Because we can!" That seems like a sensible alternative to black lung.

 

[Lucy01]

No

WTF?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

A buddy of mine was complaining earlier that Politico buried the lead by putting that last paragraph in as the last paragraph. I don't know if it is fair, but when some of us have spoken about gamer gate and Bannon et al and everything else, these were the voters being targeted. It just so happens they are in enough numbers to flip most of the rust belt.

The scary part, no matter what Trump does or doesn't do he has their full support. They make that quite clear.

as i've posted here in the past, Dems lose votes every time blacks protest in the streets or kneel for the anthem.

we can debate the BLM thing, but it would play much better most places if blacks held their furor for instances like the kid in the park in Cleveland with the toy gun, or the woman in the Tx traffic stop, but too often it seems like a questionable proposition that they're marching to back thugs vs the police. (especially where many of the biggest most covered protests were).

with the anthem protest, the anthem represents something totally different to those who hate the protest, than it does to the protesters making $750,000 yr who got free rides to college.

i may hate the moneyed interests' takeover of our govt, but if i express my discontent by burning the flag in front of the VFW, regardless of the point i'm trying to make and how impassioned i am, it's not going to have the desired effect i am seeking, because the vets aren't going to make the same connection to the act that i am assigning to it, and no matter how many times i do it that's not going to change.

i may have a credible, even imperative, end goal i'm going for, but if i'm going for it in a way that translates differently to those i'm making it to, i need to find a new strategy to call attention to my cause.

whether the players' protest is grounded in a just cause or not, their means of protesting is not having the effect they're going for, nor will it ever, and at this point i think they realize this and it's become more of a pissing contest than a protest. (one with no end at that).

regardless, Dems lose votes every time blacks protest in the streets or shun the flag and anthem.

i'm not debating whether this should be the case or not, or how just their cause really is.. just the reality of the situation, and that they need to find a new vehicle to push their take on the relationship between blacks and cops.

 

[iuwclurker1]

WTF?

Watch your tongue.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Politico has a piece showing how the Trump base in coal country are lazy moochers (Social security office busiest building in town) who refuse to retrain and take jobs that are available as machinists, welders, etc...

They also really don't like non-white people.

They also intend to vote for Trump no matter what he does (or doesn't do).

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...rump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

the "lazy moochers" comment is a distorted take on the article imo.

while the "jobs available for welders and machinists" thing always seems to come up in these discussions about areas that have been abandoned by the industries that once supported them, let's not kid ourselves that there are near enough high paying welders and machinists jobs there to solve the problem, or that no one is willing to learn new skills in these areas.

the point i take from the article, and it's easily missed imo, isn't that people are just too stupid to see that Trump isn't who he purports to be, and they are just blind fools.

but rather that these seeming backwards folks to some, at least grasp the reality that for needed change to ever occur, the "FIRST STEP" is to at least get that need at or near the top of the public debate hierarchy, and get the media and politicians at least talking about it and acknowledging it's presence.

while Bernie initiated that movement, it was Trump they heard pushing the message they wanted pushed, and any loyalty on their part to Trump isn't based in what he does, but just the fact that finally someone was at least giving lip service to, and at least initiating a debate they were desperate for the country and the media to at least put out there. ("THE FIRST STEP").

any loyalty is to his merely at least shining a light on the problem and initiating that debate.

any failure to solve the problem, just means it rolls over to the next election.

look for the most interesting primaries ever coming up.

both parties now represent the moneyed interests. ("hostile takeover". they were flat out bought out for good money.. this isn't about ideology, don't take it personal, it's just business).

the voting citizenry though weren't bought out by the moneyed interests, but rather sold out by them.

the coming primaries, on both sides, will be about the candidates supporting the parties' and their moneyed owners' interests, vs those supporting the voters' interests.

Comcast and AT&T, (who literally own the msm), did all they could to bury Bernie last time. (they are moneyed interests, and knew they had HC in their pockets).

will be interesting to see how they, (the msm), treat the candidates representing the voters' interests vs those representing the parties' interests.

will be interesting to see just how partisan they get next time out.

not Dems vs GOP partisan. but candidate representing party vs candidate representing voter partisan.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

the "lazy moochers" comment is a distorted take on the article imo.

while the "jobs available for welders and machinists" thing always seems to come up in these discussions about areas that have been abandoned by the industries that once supported them, let's not kid ourselves that there are near enough high paying welders and machinists jobs there to solve the problem, or that no one is willing to learn new skills in these areas.

the point i take from the article, and it's easily missed imo, isn't that people are just too stupid to see that Trump isn't who he purports to be, and they are just blind fools.

but rather that these seeming backwards folks to some, at least grasp the reality that for needed change to ever occur, the "FIRST STEP" is to at least get that need at or near the top of the public debate hierarchy, and get the media and politicians at least talking about it and acknowledging it's presence.

while Bernie initiated that movement, it was Trump they heard pushing the message they wanted pushed, and any loyalty on their part to Trump isn't based in what he does, but just the fact that finally someone was at least giving lip service to, and at least initiating a debate they were desperate for the country and the media to at least put out there. ("THE FIRST STEP").

any loyalty is to his merely at least shining a light on the problem and initiating that debate.

any failure to solve the problem, just means it rolls over to the next election.

look for the most interesting primaries ever coming up.

both parties now represent the moneyed interests. ("hostile takeover". they were flat out bought out for good money.. this isn't about ideology, don't take it personal, it's just business).

the voting citizenry though weren't bought out by the moneyed interests, but rather sold out by them.

the coming primaries, on both sides, will be about the candidates supporting the parties' and their moneyed owners' interests, vs those supporting the voters' interests.

Comcast and AT&T, (who literally own the msm), did all they could to bury Bernie last time. (they are moneyed interests, and knew they had HC in their pockets).

will be interesting to see how they, (the msm), treat the candidates representing the voters' interests vs those representing the parties' interests.

will be interesting to see just how partisan they get next time out.

not Dems vs GOP partisan. but candidate representing party vs candidate representing voter partisan.

Why?

 

[iuwclurker1]

Why?

Why? Is it deliberate?

 

[gmhowes]

the "lazy moochers" comment is a distorted take on the article imo.

while the "jobs available for welders and machinists" thing always seems to come up in these discussions about areas that have been abandoned by the industries that once supported them, let's not kid ourselves that there are near enough high paying welders and machinists jobs there to solve the problem, or that no one is willing to learn new skills in these areas.

the point i take from the article, and it's easily missed imo, isn't that people are just too stupid to see that Trump isn't who he purports to be, and they are just blind fools.

but rather that these seeming backwards folks to some, at least grasp the reality that for needed change to ever occur, the "FIRST STEP" is to at least get that need at or near the top of the public debate hierarchy, and get the media and politicians at least talking about it and acknowledging it's presence.

while Bernie initiated that movement, it was Trump they heard pushing the message they wanted pushed, and any loyalty on their part to Trump isn't based in what he does, but just the fact that finally someone was at least giving lip service to, and at least initiating a debate they were desperate for the country and the media to at least put out there. ("THE FIRST STEP").

any loyalty is to his merely at least shining a light on the problem and initiating that debate.

any failure to solve the problem, just means it rolls over to the next election.

look for the most interesting primaries ever coming up.

both parties now represent the moneyed interests. ("hostile takeover". they were flat out bought out for good money.. this isn't about ideology, don't take it personal, it's just business).

the voting citizenry though weren't bought out by the moneyed interests, but rather sold out by them.

the coming primaries, on both sides, will be about the candidates supporting the parties' and their moneyed owners' interests, vs those supporting the voters' interests.

Comcast and AT&T, (who literally own the msm), did all they could to bury Bernie last time. (they are moneyed interests, and knew they had HC in their pockets).

will be interesting to see how they, (the msm), treat the candidates representing the voters' interests vs those representing the parties' interests.

will be interesting to see just how partisan they get next time out.

not Dems vs GOP partisan. but candidate representing party vs candidate representing voter partisan.

Many points I agree with if not most. It is kind of like having any State Department and do not the customs of a country before and tell them what their county needs. I am not trying to push my views on the thread. These people just needed someone to tell them it will be alright true or false, more importantly they want hope and those who are able will work for it.

 

[sglowrider]

Coal mining is doing great.

Trump's now added 130,000 mining jobs in just a year! Amazing. They must love Trump. Wait, typo. 130 added.

Mine closing wipes out many of Trump's coal job gains
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/news/companies/coal-mine-closing/index.html
Despite many promises from President Trump that he would bring back coal jobs, the industry has only added 500 jobs, or a 1% increase, during his first year in office.

The county, traditionally a Democratic stronghold, went strongly for Trump in the 2016 election, with 68.4% voting for Trump and only 28.2% for Clinton.
"They voted for Trump because he said he'd bring back coal. It's not happening," said Zimmerman, a Democrat. "There's not been any significant change in the industry since he's taken over."

 

[gmhowes]

Coal mining is doing great.

Trump's now added 130,000 mining jobs in just a year! Amazing. They must love Trump. Wait, typo. 130 added.

Mine closing wipes out many of Trump's coal job gains
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/news/companies/coal-mine-closing/index.html
Despite many promises from President Trump that he would bring back coal jobs, the industry has only added 500 jobs, or a 1% increase, during his first year in office.

The Warrick county In. mine I worked in "closed" the last day of 1999. Were informed the coal was too high in sulfur content to sell. Our mine which was union, finished the reclamation projects. The mine reopened non union as soon as we left the property the last time.
I made $77,000 that year. Now there are two tier wages and many without insurance. The highest wage earners who do have insurance, wave their pay stubs under the lower scales employees nose and say keep working hard and your check will be like mine, NOT.
The fine people of Indiana should know their tax dollars put this "coal miner" a new bypass road around Boonville In. to speed the 300 trucks + rail to the Ohio for barge transport.
On a side note there is a power plant near here that uses (low sulfur coal) from the West for air compliance, yet has a belt that feeds sulfur of all things to get the B.T.U. temperature up. Reread paragraph 1. It's what Trump thinks of Africa that's going on.
Believe me, the ones at the trough are not the workers.

 

[sglowrider]

A grim future for workers who don't learn new skills
https://www.axios.com/workers-automation-lost-jobs-skills-2d944533-3f51-40ee-b2c0-b65e4644a9db.html

In all, some 1.4 million Americans will lose their jobs to technological change in the next eight years, including 70 percent whose job type will just disappear. Without new skills, according to the report, 575,000 of them — 41% — will have either minuscule or no chance of finding other work. Women may be disproportionately affected.

Even if they do find work using their current skills, many will on average earn $8,600 less per year. These are the people who must start thinking now about what their next career might be, the report suggests. "Overall, the scale of re-skilling suggests that we need a skilling revolution,

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

A grim future for workers who don't learn new skills
https://www.axios.com/workers-automation-lost-jobs-skills-2d944533-3f51-40ee-b2c0-b65e4644a9db.html

So how do you encourage people to want to learn new skills? The majority of these do not seem to be high-skill positions, so why can't a semi-skilled office worker find another semi-skilled position in a field that isn't shrinking or needs more employees?

 

[sglowrider]

So how do you encourage people to want to learn new skills? The majority of these do not seem to be high-skill positions, so why can't a semi-skilled office worker find another semi-skilled position in a field that isn't shrinking or needs more employees?

In a country as small as Singapore and where the gov't is so infused into the economy its difficult enough. But there is a high level of integration between multiple gov't ministries and industries. Lots of individual grants and tax incentives for education and re-training.
My big gripe is that they should have industry work closer with education esp universities to anticipate the over the horizon skillsets. This si the failure of HR and the schools.

Ultimately, the cynical fak in me thinks that when the gov't makes things so expensive to live here (esp for capital expenditure), you can't afford to remain idle.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It appears no one is predicting a coal comeback:

Forecasters anticipate a greater amount of coal power capacity to vanish between 2017 and 2030 than what disappeared between 2011 and 2016.

"I don't think there's one coal plant being built in the country. Whatever Trump tries to do doesn't really matter because it's driven by economics," said Andy Smith, an Edward Jones analyst who covers power companies.
​

Supposedly JFK discovered what poverty was in West Virginia, and it impacted him greatly. Enough that it became a signature cause of him and his brothers. I get why those people are disaffected. But I am not sure praying for a coal turnaround is what they need to be seeking.

 

[wiede]

There is no place to jump to. Win, lose, or draw the mountains are their life.

I’ve worked in eastern KY before. I know the area well. Actually, my work serviced many of the coal miners down there (I work for a Workers Comp Pharmacy).

Let’s just say that it was a very unique area. I could tell you guys tons of stories, even though I was only working in and around the area for about a year and a half. Sometimes the folks there are their own worst enemy- and I get that they’ve been chit on many times over the years.

However, at a certain point, they’ve got to realize that coal mining doesn’t have a future, and it’s best to start finding an alternate lifestyle. Black lung is nasty, and dying in a mine is even worse.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It appears no one is predicting a coal comeback:

Forecasters anticipate a greater amount of coal power capacity to vanish between 2017 and 2030 than what disappeared between 2011 and 2016.

"I don't think there's one coal plant being built in the country. Whatever Trump tries to do doesn't really matter because it's driven by economics," said Andy Smith, an Edward Jones analyst who covers power companies.
​

Supposedly JFK discovered what poverty was in West Virginia, and it impacted him greatly. Enough that it became a signature cause of him and his brothers. I get why those people are disaffected. But I am not sure praying for a coal turnaround is what they need to be seeking.

The problems there run wide and deep. Have you read this? It’s on my list but haven’t read it yet. We have such a tendency to believe if you are white you shouldn’t have problems. I think we are seeing that cultures are a larger determiner in life than race. It is getting worse as we focus more on race about everything. We willingly blame poor whites for their lot in life, but we can’t blame poor other races.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The problems there run wide and deep. Have you read this? It’s on my list but haven’t read it yet. We have such a tendency to believe if you are white you shouldn’t have problems. I think we are seeing that cultures are a larger determiner in life than race. It is getting worse as we focus more on race about everything. We willingly blame poor whites for their lot in life, but we can’t blame poor other races.

I have not read the book but I have heard of it. Some may blame poor whites, I more suggest their idea that government helps only minorities is wrong. As my original post pointed out, the feds have government programs to retrain them. Not only do they refuse to go, they vote to end such programs for everyone.

 

[sglowrider]

I have not read the book but I have heard of it. Some may blame poor whites, I more suggest their idea that government helps only minorities is wrong. As my original post pointed out, the feds have government programs to retrain them. Not only do they refuse to go, they vote to end such programs for everyone.

I guess they didnt get the memo of biting the hand etc

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The problems there run wide and deep. Have you read this? It’s on my list but haven’t read it yet. We have such a tendency to believe if you are white you shouldn’t have problems. I think we are seeing that cultures are a larger determiner in life than race. It is getting worse as we focus more on race about everything. We willingly blame poor whites for their lot in life, but we can’t blame poor other races.

divide and conquer.

the 2 branches of the Wall St Party are well aware of this ancient strategy and play it to the max, including on this forum.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I have not read the book but I have heard of it. Some may blame poor whites, I more suggest their idea that government helps only minorities is wrong. As my original post pointed out, the feds have government programs to retrain them. Not only do they refuse to go, they vote to end such programs for everyone.

retrain them to do what?

 

[Rockfish1]

We willingly blame poor whites for their lot in life, but we can’t blame poor other races.

Who are all these people blaming whites for their lot in life? I bet it's the same group waging the war on Christmas. I mean, apart from Christians, the most beleaguered group I can think of is white people.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

retrain them to do what?

Other jobs? It is going to be hard to convince other industries to move in if the workers only know coal.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Who are all these people blaming whites for their lot in life? I bet it's the same group waging the war on Christmas. I mean, apart from Christians, the most beleaguered group I can think of is white people.

I notice how when a democrat or democratic leaning person says “coal miner”, people like CO thinks “they mean white people”. However, when a republican or republican leaning person says “inner city” they don’t mean black or brown people.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Incidents of black lung are skyrocketing, even as amount of coal mined has gone down (and more coal is mined through just blasting down the mountain). The Trump Administration is reviewing the Obama rules on dust particles to see if they are an unnecessary burden. I am not sure more dust will help with the disease.