You have no issue with overt pandering? I guess that’s disappointing.
I have a major issue with your difficulty processing the post that you responded to.
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You have no issue with overt pandering? I guess that’s disappointing.
Thanks for answering, so we do not know the GJ was asked to consider anything regarding two of the officers. So when people say the GJ determined the officers acted perfectly legally, we do not know that at all. Someone determined that, we do not yet know who.
You certainly poo pooed any issue with it. I’d rank it as a highly offensive act and just about ensures most police will not be voting for her.I have a major issue with your difficulty processing the post that you responded to.
Intersting here's my take
1. black people are killed at a higher rate - not accdg to stats 1004 killed, 235 black. black 53% murders 60% robberies 13% population. zero evidence of what you state.
2. blacks are incarcerated longer for exact same crimes. that's not racism in my opinion but classism. blacks with expensive lawyers do just fine. whites with public defenders don't do well.
3. crack cocaine. see number two above. may have disparate impact but not racism imo.
4. 100% agree on redlining rotting urban cores.
5. voting laws. Agree.
6. tax income more than cap. agree.
7. i don't know enough on gerrymandering nationwide. that seems like an equal political move or effot.
8. we keep poor trapped in the legal system with bullshit fees? 100% agree.
all thought-provoking good stuff. we need to do more to elevate these communities that need help with sweat and financial equity and we need to simultaneously ask help from black leaders to become louder about personal responsibility and accountability. 53% of murders and 60% of robberies for 13% of the population is not okay. it's a shame we can't all work together because inures to our collective benefit. trump. forget it. but kamala harris tweeting this is murder in the breonna taylor matter with zero facts long before a grand jury received anything is frightening.
yeah that's a good way to put it. i wasn't always a fan of obama's policies but i certainly appreciated "his way." he was always calm, always gave the impression his words were considered, and didn't rush to judgment during his time imo. i don't mind biden, and i'm not in the camp that his cognition is impaired because how the hell would i know, but i have seen enough of him lately to form the opinion that he looks like one of these guys that are getting really old. and it's just nature. fauci looks like he could run a marathon and work another 20 years. biden looks old as shit. so harris as vp and how she conducts herself carries more weight than it otherwise would imo.Good thoughts there, mcm. One of my big early criticisms of Senator Harris was that I felt that she needed more time to bake to be a standout national candidate. This is one of those many instances where the dreaded e-word (experience) is a positive.
Oversimplified nonsense. There is a real debate to be had but this ain’t it. The real debate lies in whether AA populations are overpoliced compared to whites. AA shootings by police follow (slightly trail actually) the violent crime arrests by race.They are killed at a higher rate per capita and at a higher rate while in similar police interactions as white people. Seriously, take a few seconds to read details of the studies:
The research is clear: White people are not more likely than Black people to be killed by police.
When President Donald Trump responded to a question about Black people who have died at the hands of U.S. law enforcement by focusing his attention on white victims, he was engaging in a “grotesque” misdirection, says Matt Miller, a Northeastern professor who studies gun violence. “Black people...news.northeastern.edu
Totally agree on Econ development but I don’t blame black people for fighting uneven policing, something that is also unfortunately part of their heritage.
That post was about the criminal justice system. You knew that.
Thanks for answering, so we do not know the GJ was asked to consider anything regarding two of the officers. So when people say the GJ determined the officers acted perfectly legally, we do not know that at all. Someone determined that, we do not yet know who.
In my experience (I've had 5 members of my family OD in the past 5 years and one that has been hit with a pin twice to survive) it is incredibly hard to break them off habits. I would like to see reform of individuals as much as anybody, it just doesn't seem to work. I like the mentality of keeping drugs off the streets so potential new users aren't exposed. I guess it is like cutting the head off the snake?
Harsher punishments for those who deal might help as well, IMO we are way to soft on criminals.
You speak like you are the one with Xanax selling friends. I would put distance between you and them.
But yeah, if you are the wife of xanax selling buddy, you can lose your house, car, etc. if he gets raided. If you are a friend of xanax selling buddy and he gets pulled over and his xanax are on your side of the car, you could be screwed.
Welcome to the real world.
I think what he is saying is live a virtuous life and these things don't happen. My cousin who is a painter filled a prescription for one of the bottom feeders he use to employ, guess what the next day the police came to his house with a search warrant. Cost him $3000.00 to get out of the mess, all because of who he was associated with he got zero sympathy from the family. Guess what, he started to hire a bit more reputable people and issues like that mysteriously went away.
Oversimplified nonsense. There is a real debate to be had but this ain’t it. The real debate lies in whether AA populations are overpoliced compared to whites. AA shootings by police follow (slightly trail actually) the violent crime arrests by race.
Oversimplified nonsense. There is a real debate to be had but this ain’t it. The real debate lies in whether AA populations are overpoliced compared to whites. AA shootings by police follow (slightly trail actually) the violent crime arrests by race.
I found the examples you gave of the consequences for these actions (illegal drug dealing) really interesting:
1) Lose your house
2) Lose your car
3) Be arrested
4) Pay $3,000.00
5) Lack of sympathy from family
Those seems like appropriate consequences for drug offenses. A "seeing justice served" wouldn't approve a no-knock warrant for your xanax selling "buddy". A "protect and serve" mindset wouldn't raid your painter cousin's house at 1AM and fire randomly into the residence.
What I'd suggest is that we reconsider why we think that was a good idea for Breonna Taylor's residence.
Statistically, police are less prone to shoot violent AAs than violent whites.
Red Herring. I don't think either TD or I argued for the no knock warrants being the best way to handle this. I specifically said we need to revisit when we use them.
My point was that keeping company with unsavory individuals (Taylor) or maybe even partaking in unsavory behavior yourself (Floyd) can put you in a position to face unintended consequences.
You certainly poo pooed any issue with it. I’d rank it as a highly offensive act and just about ensures most police will not be voting for her.
Based on your child-like perceptions of what constitutes unsavoryness? Lol. Tell us again how pot needs a better spokesman.
That post was about the criminal justice system. You knew that.
Because the rest is data manipulation. Stick with the raw figures. 1004 killed. 235 black. 60% robberies 53% murder. 13% of the population. these statistics predict a much higher rate of blacks being killed than exists, particularly if there were systemic racism. Again, I believe, and know, racism exists, in so many of the areas you highlighted, but it's not here in any systemic wayNot sure how it doesn’t pertain. If I’m black then I am more likely to be killed than a white person engaged in the exact same activity. This is being proven. This is part of the problem.
Was Taylor still employed as an EMT when she was shot? I read that she was fired back in 2017.
I understand that people WANT somebody to "pay" (be held "responsible") for Taylor's death.
Based on your child-like perceptions of what constitutes unsavoryness? Lol. Tell us again how pot needs a better spokesman.
Oh its being proven. Oh ok. Please elaborate on “same activity.”Not sure how it doesn’t pertain. If I’m black then I am more likely to be killed than a white person engaged in the exact same activity. This is being proven. This is part of the problem.
Red Herring. I don't think either TD or I argued for the no knock warrants being the best way to handle this. I specifically said we need to revisit when we use them.
My point was that keeping company with unsavory individuals (Taylor) or maybe even partaking in unsavory behavior yourself (Floyd) can put you in a position to face unintended consequences.
Edit to add: And we need to revisit the idea that telling people this instead of turning them into martyrs is maybe one way we can reduce these interactions. Breonna may be as pure as the driven snow, but the company she kept endangered her life and ultimately was a factor in her death.
As long as that "somebody" isn't Taylor or her boyfriend.
I respectfully disagree with your take on it. One person's "pandering" is another person's "addressing the needs of constituents." But, it's good to know that you're extremely anti-pandering. I'm assuming that you won't be voting for anyone this election. 🤷♂️
im just disappointed that a smart guy like you has no real issue with an African American major candidate - who knows the law - pandering overtly to a population to perpetuate misinformation likely to continue a cycle of pain and suffering - all to get votes.I respectfully disagree with your take on it. One person's "pandering" is another person's "addressing the needs of constituents." But, it's good to know that you're extremely anti-pandering. I'm assuming that you won't be voting for anyone this election. 🤷♂️
I guess I'm focused on what government's responsibility is. Certainly the company Taylor kept was a factor in her death, but I'm not particularly interested in being the arbiter of what company people should keep. I'm more interested in government having interactions that serves the interest of society as a whole.
So, it's not a red herring at all. It's actually the real point. You didn't contemplate that your xanax dealing "friend" (I keep putting it in quotation marks because I know you've said you don't have such a friend) would face consequences like this. I don't believe for a second that police would set up a no-knock warrant raid of a house at 1AM in the suburbs of Hamilton county for the kind of charges being brought here. That's a positive. I want that same positive in the circumstances around Breonna Taylor. Better policing would have approached this situation differently and produced a better outcome. That is government's responsibility...not telling 26-year olds the type of friends to have.
Was she married to the guy she was in bed with? When he shot a policeman!Was Taylor still employed as an EMT when she was shot? I read that she was fired back in 2017.
Because the rest is data manipulation. Stick with the raw figures. 1004 killed. 235 black. 60% robberies 53% murder. 13% of the population. these statistics predict a much higher rate of blacks being killed than exists, particularly if there were systemic racism. Again, I believe, and know, racism exists, in so many of the areas you highlighted, but it's not here in any systemic way
Nah...the system gives us results we should trust, right?
im just disappointed that a smart guy like you has no real issue with an African American major candidate - who knows the law - pandering overtly to a population to perpetuate misinformation likely to continue a cycle of pain and suffering - all to get votes.
it's cited for its predictive value. commit more crimes, particularly with a weapon, you're more likely to involve a shooting. that being said i don't think we need to go past the raw numbers. 1004 killed; 235 black. that's not a systemic issueSo are people only shot and killed by police in the execution of robberies or murders? Which one was Philando Castile committing? Tamir Rice? I think we need to be more careful about what we say data says because the use of data to present a conclusion is all data "manipulation". I say that not pejoratively...just as an acceptance that we aren't directly measuring the conclusions being reached. And I say that fully aware that people claiming that data makes a different conclusion than the one you are supporting are doing the same kind of thing.
Data manipulation is a complicated thing and the data we have on this issue requires a lot of extrapolation across a easily distorted sample size. I'm not convinced that the data is able to measure the things that we'd like to measure. And I struggle with the concept that there is racial disparity is some aspects of policing but no racial disparity in the use of force (which I think is a decent summary of your position - please correct me if I have that wrong.) It's why I prefer calmer, more considered leaders (such as how you view President Obama) over bomb throwers in general.
The system isn’t perfect. But I don’t think a mob disagreement with a particular G.J decision is a reason to distrust it.
Fair enough.
However, if a known drug dealer lived in my neighborhood, I would want that person out. If it took a no knock warrant to have that happen, so be it.
Is misleading constituents - especially when it causes suffering and potentially violence - an offense that you don’t take seriously?I don't think that's a fair characterization of the issue that mcm and I have been discussing. As I said previously, my view is that one person's pandering is another person's effective representation of constituents. I find it to be one of those political terms (such as "identity politics") that are lazily thrown around.
There are literally white offsets for all of those you named above - they just don’t make the national news.So are people only shot and killed by police in the execution of robberies or murders? Which one was Philando Castile committing? Tamir Rice? I think we need to be more careful about what we say data says because the use of data to present a conclusion is all data "manipulation". I say that not pejoratively...just as an acceptance that we aren't directly measuring the conclusions being reached. And I say that fully aware that people claiming that data makes a different conclusion than the one you are supporting are doing the same kind of thing.
Data manipulation is a complicated thing and the data we have on this issue requires a lot of extrapolation across a easily distorted sample size. I'm not convinced that the data is able to measure the things that we'd like to measure. And I struggle with the concept that there is racial disparity is some aspects of policing but no racial disparity in the use of force (which I think is a decent summary of your position - please correct me if I have that wrong.) It's why I prefer calmer, more considered leaders (such as how you view President Obama) over bomb throwers in general.
it's cited for its predictive value. commit more crimes, particularly with a weapon, you're more likely to involve a shooting. that being said i don't think we need to go past the raw numbers. 1004 killed; 235 black. that's not a systemic issue
1004 people were killed by cops. 235 were black. no manipulation. statistics. that's not racism. now how many do you think out of that 235 were unarmed or situations like taylor? maybe 5%? so maybe for an entire year out of tens of millions of contacts there are possibly 10 or 11 "questionable" deaths? and don't you think if there are 4x as many whites killed there are likely similar circumstances involving whites? again, racism exists; doubtless, but one has to stretch the living shit out of the numbers above to cry racism in these cop shooting cases.Those are only the "raw numbers" because you've decided that they are the numbers you like to reach the conclusion you've decided on. That's data manipulation because the "raw numbers" don't say specifically what you say they suggest.
And you conveniently gloss over the Castille and Rice examples because they exist outside of the data manipulation that you prefer. (and again I underline that I'm not using "manipulation" pejoratively)
There are literally white offsets for all of those you named above - they just don’t make the national news.
Of course your point of data manipulation is of course fair and to be heeded. But in this overall discussion it is crystal clear to one side that something must be wrong with the data because it doesn’t support their narrative. And recognize I’m always on the side of justice. Castile is unforgivable. Rice is unforgivable. Shaver is unforgivable.