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Cal and Langford

fpeaugh said:
Go watch the 30 for 30 on him with a shred of objectivity and you'll see what he brings to the table. Those kids love and respect him. He holds them accountable unlike just about any other head coach could. That's why he's so well respected in the basketball community.
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Haven't got ESPN (cut cable when the kid was in college and haven't gotten it back yet). Does it say HOW he improves them?

I ask that as a serious question. I don't think Cal is a bad coach. I do believe he's a great recruiter but IMHO that is because he can help kids who are NBA ready with his connection to the league.

But I've yet to see anyone - media, coaches in the game, etc . . . - that will tell you he develops players better than his coaching peers in the college game (K, Izzo, Self, et al). And if it's out there, let's see it.
 
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IU Scott said:
I would never want a coach who openly comes out and says that the most important thing for him is to get players drafted. I can't believe any UK fan liked the comment that best day in their history was getting a record for first round draft picks.
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A-freaking-men.

Cal said THE best day in Kaintuck history was having 5 guys drafted in the first round.

Not any of the championships.

That's pathetic.
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
A-freaking-men.

Cal said THE best day in Kaintuck history was having 5 guys drafted in the first round.

Not any of the championships.

That's pathetic.
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Cal is pretty explicit in his getting guys to the pros. It's one of the reasons so many 1-and-dones go there.

He's churning out guys going to the NBA because the guys he recruits should be able to go straight from HS. If there is a rule change and guys can, the second tier of talent - though still good - may still end up in Lexington.

But those kids will have to be students for 4-6 semesters. And they'll need someone who can further develop their talent. Is Cal the guy? Maybe - but he hasn't PROVED he can be that coach, let alone on an annual basis. I don't think he can but he may prove me wrong . We'll see .
 
Tasmanian Devil said:
Cal is pretty explicit in his getting guys to the pros. It's one of the reasons so many 1-and-dones go there.

He's churning out guys going to the NBA because the guys he recruits should be able to go straight from HS. If there is a rule change and guys can, the second tier of talent - though still good - may still end up in Lexington.

But those kids will have to be students for 4-6 semesters. And they'll need someone who can further develop their talent. Is Cal the guy? Maybe - but he hasn't PROVED he can be that coach, let alone on an annual basis. I don't think he can but he may prove me wrong . We'll see .
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If he's such an "awesome developer of talent", how many 3 stars did he develop into the lottery?

Crean had 2 in 5 years (OG would have been a lottery pick if not for his injury)
 
IU Scott said:
Again if you want to win at any cost he is your man but I would never want him coaching at IU. You are either a younger fan or never attended IU because most long time IU fans care more than just about wins/losses.
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I'm an alum and former season ticket holder for over 30 years. I'm tired of the false notion that IU is holier than thou. Only IU fans believe that nonsense. We play in the grey as much as anyone - UK, Cal, UNC, it doesn't matter. We're no better than them ethically even though they're much much better than us athletically. That's the reality.
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
A-freaking-men.

Cal said THE best day in Kaintuck history was having 5 guys drafted in the first round.

Not any of the championships.

That's pathetic.
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You don't think this is what draws the kids to him? He puts their needs and dreams ahead of his own. Think about it...he puts them first. That's very hard to find these days. It's all part of Cal's system. He's an incredible leader.
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
If he's such an "awesome developer of talent", how many 3 stars did he develop into the lottery?

Crean had 2 in 5 years (OG would have been a lottery pick if not for his injury)
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He doesn't recruit 3 stars because he doesn't need to. Crean wouldn't either if he was good enough to land 5 stars. Get a clue.
 
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fpeaugh said:
You don't think this is what draws the kids to him? He puts their needs and dreams ahead of his own. Think about it...he puts them first. That's very hard to find these days. It's all part of Cal's system. He's an incredible leader.
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What? "He puts their needs and dreams ahead of his own." How is this true? Aren't his needs the same?

Calipari markets himself as being able to get guys into the NBA, and then recruits guys who really don't need anyone else's help to get there.

Has Calipari ever helped any players of the caliber of, say, Nick Zeisloft get into the NBA even for a short time?
 
fpeaugh said:
I'm an alum and former season ticket holder for over 30 years. I'm tired of the false notion that IU is holier than thou. Only IU fans believe that nonsense. We play in the grey as much as anyone - UK, Cal, UNC, it doesn't matter. We're no better than them ethically even though they're much much better than us athletically. That's the reality.
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Complete load of bull&%$#.

Tell us what players have been given cash like they have at Kaintuck.

Tell us about all the fake classes like they have at UNC.

Or the hookers at Louisville.
 
fpeaugh said:
He doesn't recruit 3 stars because he doesn't need to. Crean wouldn't either if he was good enough to land 5 stars. Get a clue.
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I'm not just talking about Kaintuck mouth-breather (I don't believe for one second you're an IU fan as you spend all your time defending the inbreds).
 
Stuffshot said:
.

What? "He puts their needs and dreams ahead of his own." How is this true? Aren't his needs the same?

Calipari markets himself as being able to get guys into the NBA, and then recruits guys who really don't need anyone else's help to get there.

Has Calipari ever helped any players of the caliber of, say, Nick Zeisloft get into the NBA even for a short time?
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Spot on.

Be curious if anyone will answer your last sentence.
 
Tasmanian Devil said:
Haven't got ESPN (cut cable when the kid was in college and haven't gotten it back yet). Does it say HOW he improves them?

I ask that as a serious question. I don't think Cal is a bad coach. I do believe he's a great recruiter but IMHO that is because he can help kids who are NBA ready with his connection to the league.

But I've yet to see anyone - media, coaches in the game, etc . . . - that will tell you he develops players better than his coaching peers in the college game (K, Izzo, Self, et al). And if it's out there, let's see it.
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In all fairness, I don't think it's right to give any coach credit for developing a one and done. There is only so much you can improve in a year and their time under that coach is minuscule in the scope of an entire basketball career.

You can put a player in the best position to succeed, and showcase their talents better than others, but actual improvement as a basketball player is negligible.

Calipari doesn't have the track record of getting those multi-year players drafted that some of his peers do, but he also hasn't had the opportunity.

Kentucky is a meat grinder, you get in as a freshman and if you don't get drafted after that, odds are good you have to transfer or get buried.

If he had more of those 20-50 type players and less of the top 15, I think you would see some good "development".

I don't feel like hopping on rsci to see if the numbers bare this out but it's my hypothesis.
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
Not really.

Every draft board I saw had him in the lottery and he still went first round even after the injury.

Even then, when did Pay Pal Cal take two 3 stars and get them into the first round?
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You need to read more draft boards. Never in the top 13.
 
fpeaugh said:
IU as a fanbase has to get over the Calipari jealousy. It really makes us look bad. I remember many on this board claiming Tom Crean was a better coach than Cal just 4-5 years ago. It's embarrassing. The guy is one of the best coaches all time. UK did what it takes to win, IU didn't. Let's move on.
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You call wanting to win college games the right way jealousy? Now you have lost some cred on that one. And i suppose you believe he knew nothing about two Final fours being vacated. Jealousy and higher moral ground are NOT related.
 
IUBBALLAWOL said:
You call wanting to win college games the right way jealousy? Now you have lost some cred on that one. And i suppose you believe he knew nothing about two Final fours being vacated. Jealousy and higher moral ground are NOT related.
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I've had Eddie tell me that they knew nothing about what Camby got in '96.

Memphis? IDK
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
Complete load of bull&%$#.

Tell us what players have been given cash like they have at Kaintuck.

Tell us about all the fake classes like they have at UNC.

Or the hookers at Louisville.
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What players have been given cash at UK during Cal's time there? I'm sure you and Tas and Scott can put together a list. Lol
 
Stuffshot said:
.

What? "He puts their needs and dreams ahead of his own." How is this true? Aren't his needs the same?

Calipari markets himself as being able to get guys into the NBA, and then recruits guys who really don't need anyone else's help to get there.

Has Calipari ever helped any players of the caliber of, say, Nick Zeisloft get into the NBA even for a short time?
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How many Nick Zeisloft's has he recruited? Why would he?

He tells kids to go to the NBA if it's in their best interest. Most other coaches tell kids to come back as its in the coach's best interest for next year's team. Cal doesn't do that. Say what you want but it's not a fluke he recruits so well and is so well respected.
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
Complete load of bull&%$#.

Tell us what players have been given cash like they have at Kaintuck.

Tell us about all the fake classes like they have at UNC.

Or the hookers at Louisville.
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What UK players have been given cash?

How about IU hiring Adams's son (who was found to give impermissible benefits to 2 recruits) just to land Parea and Jurkin. That not playing in the grey?
 
TheVegasHoosier said:
I'm not just talking about Kaintuck mouth-breather (I don't believe for one second you're an IU fan as you spend all your time defending the inbreds).
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You can respect a coach without being a fan. It's called being an adult. Your argument is foolish.
 
IUBBALLAWOL said:
You call wanting to win college games the right way jealousy? Now you have lost some cred on that one. And i suppose you believe he knew nothing about two Final fours being vacated. Jealousy and higher moral ground are NOT related.
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Camby took money from an agent once he was at UMASS. Then felt so bad about it he paid back the fine he caused the school. Cal had nothing to do with that.

I don't know about Rose. There's never been any proof he was involved. Don't forget IU was recruiting Rose too and likely would've accepted that SAT score.
 
fpeaugh said:
What UK players have been given cash?

How about IU hiring Adams's son (who was found to give impermissible benefits to 2 recruits) just to land Parea and Jurkin. That not playing in the grey?
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Not totally true because the only reason there was a problem was that Adam's was considered a booster. He bought Iu license plates or something like that 20 years before those players played at IU. Adams was considered their guardian so that was a problem with the NCAA. It is not like Camby getting money or helping Rose have someone else take their SAT test.
 
Yes it was Skal's best interest to go to the NBA and get away from Cal. He has improved his immensely under Joerger in Sacramneto.

Labisserie is a perfect example of a 5 star who didn't need Cal to get drafted. He stunk it up in college but was still drafted on potential.
 
jsig said:
Yes it was Skal's best interest to go to the NBA and get away from Cal. He has improved his immensely under Joerger in Sacramneto.

Labisserie is a perfect example of a 5 star who didn't need Cal to get drafted. He stunk it up in college but was still drafted on potential.
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Daniel Orton was drafted in the first round even though he only averaged around 4pts a game at UK
 
IU Scott said:
Not totally true because the only reason there was a problem was that Adam's was considered a booster. He bought Iu license plates or something like that 20 years before those players played at IU. Adams was considered their guardian so that was a problem with the NCAA. It is not like Camby getting money or helping Rose have someone else take their SAT test.
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Keep telling yourself we're holier than thou. It's a delusion IU fans have lived with for as long as I can remember. And it's part of the reason we're no longer relevant on the national scene. Similar to ND football.
 
IU Scott said:
Daniel Orton was drafted in the first round even though he only averaged around 4pts a game at UK
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And you give Cal no credit for that? Part of the bigger picture that obviously eludes you is the overall system. Those kids play against the top competition every single day in practice. No Prillers kicking the tires. It also hides their weaknesses in games. If you're Daniel Orton you're not going against the other team's best defender. Hell you're probably going against their worst.

You're also not expected to put up many points. There's always the excuse that you were surrounded by so many other good players...only so many shots. If Daniel Orton goes to most other schools he's a focal point who is expected to average double figures and faces the other team's best defender. It's a completely different situation.

These recruits know the system will help hide their weaknesses and they can just focus on their strengths. It's the system that Cal has developed. It's the only place you can average 4ppg and be a first rounder. You have to give the designer and leader of that system some credit.
 
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fpeaugh said:
And you give Cal no credit for that? Part of the bigger picture that obviously eludes you is the overall system. Those kids play against the top competition every single day in practice. No Prillers kicking the tires. It also hides their weaknesses in games. If you're Daniel Orton you're not going against the other team's best defender. Hell you're probably going against their worst.

You're also not expected to put up many points. There's always the excuse that you were surrounded by so many other good players...only so many shots. If Daniel Orton goes to most other schools he's a focal point who is expected to average double figures and faces the other team's best defender. It's a completely different situation.

These recruits know the system will help hide their weaknesses and they can just focus on their strengths. It's the system that Cal has developed. It's the only place you can average 4ppg and be a first rounder. You have to give the designer and leader of that system some credit.
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No I don't give Cal credit on Orton. He only played about 10 minutes a game so that should tell you that the NBA was going to draft him no matter where he went.
 
fpeaugh said:
Keep telling yourself we're holier than thou. It's a delusion IU fans have lived with for as long as I can remember. And it's part of the reason we're no longer relevant on the national scene. Similar to ND football.
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Sounds like you would be better off going to Rupp Rafters instead of this board. You can talk with them on how you want to win at any cost no matter how you do it. I use to be proud of this fan base but over the years more and more think like you where you don't care how you win just as long as you win. Being an IU fan use to mean something because we stood for something but not today.
 
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fpeaugh said:
What UK players have been given cash?

How about IU hiring Adams's son (who was found to give impermissible benefits to 2 recruits) just to land Parea and Jurkin. That not playing in the grey?
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How do you know what "most other coaches say"?

Go back to making out with your Calipari blow-up doll.
 
IU Scott said:
Not totally true because the only reason there was a problem was that Adam's was considered a booster. He bought Iu license plates or something like that 20 years before those players played at IU. Adams was considered their guardian so that was a problem with the NCAA. It is not like Camby getting money or helping Rose have someone else take their SAT test.
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This proves that he's a Kentucky fan with trying equate THAT with all the crap his Messiah Calipari has done.

Time to put another a-hole Kaintuck troll on ignore......
 
fpeaugh said:
Keep telling yourself we're holier than thou. It's a delusion IU fans have lived with for as long as I can remember. And it's part of the reason we're no longer relevant on the national scene. Similar to ND football.
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You're really trying to equate a booster buying a license plate two decades before as "equal gray areas"?

See, folks? This is why you shouldn't breed with your own family members.

Welcome to ignore, fruit cake.
 
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