Big Game Coaches

[Fpeaugh2]

I’ve always been amazed at how some coaches and players seem to elevate themselves against top competition while others disappear. After 4.5 years I think we can all agree who Tom Allen is and who he isn’t. And no, this isn’t a fire Tom Allen thread.

One certainty is he is definitely not a big game coach. He’s just not. He does so many things great but when the lights are brightest he seems to be at his worst. I believe he’s beat 1 Big Ten team in 4.5 years who finished with a winning record. That’s flat out pathetic. Then you add in the bowl game collapses and the picture is clear.

What’s odd is Brohm seems to be the exact opposite. He disappears against average competition but when the lights are brightest he looks like a top 5 coach. Similar to Tom Herman. It’s hard to explain.

The long term question is are we ok with this? Are we ok winning games we should and not having a chance in the rest? Are we ok consistently winning 5-7 games a year? Not long ago we would’ve loved that. Do we still?

 

[TMFT]

I honestly think Jimmies & Joes are more important than Xs and Os.

it’s disheartening to see poor clock and player management. But it’s worse to get guys on the field that whiff blocks or drop passes, for example.

I, for one, am okay with the status quo for the time being compared to the history of my IUFB fandom. I WOULD really like to see them have one of those Purdue-esque upsets of a top ranked team (although I’m glad to see us not have those Purdue-esque meltdowns against inferior competition).

If he doesn’t rise up to being a threat to top teams with semi-regular wins in the next couple years, then the admin is going to have to decide whether they’re happy with regular years between 5-7 and 8-4 or whether they want to make a run at something great every once in a while.

for now I’m still on board with CTA and I honestly believe he’s put the pieces out there and the kids aren’t making plays or, in the case of the offense, they’re not being coached up to the point of being given the best chance to succeed.

 

[Indy2Jax]

I honestly think Jimmies & Joes are more important than Xs and Os.

it’s disheartening to see poor clock and player management. But it’s worse to get guys on the field that whiff blocks or drop passes, for example.

I, for one, am okay with the status quo for the time being compared to the history of my IUFB fandom. I WOULD really like to see them have one of those Purdue-esque upsets of a top ranked team (although I’m glad to see us not have those Purdue-esque meltdowns against inferior competition).

If he doesn’t rise up to being a threat to top teams with semi-regular wins in the next couple years, then the admin is going to have to decide whether they’re happy with regular years between 5-7 and 8-4 or whether they want to make a run at something great every once in a while.

for now I’m still on board with CTA and I honestly believe he’s put the pieces out there and the kids aren’t making plays or, in the case of the offense, they’re not being coached up to the point of being given the best chance to succeed.

I think you underestimate Iowa’s refusal to double cover David Bell three consecutive years.

 

[kmathum]

I’ve always been amazed at how some coaches and players seem to elevate themselves against top competition while others disappear. After 4.5 years I think we can all agree who Tom Allen is and who he isn’t. And no, this isn’t a fire Tom Allen thread.

One certainty is he is definitely not a big game coach. He’s just not. He does so many things great but when the lights are brightest he seems to be at his worst. I believe he’s beat 1 Big Ten team in 4.5 years who finished with a winning record. That’s flat out pathetic. Then you add in the bowl game collapses and the picture is clear.

What’s odd is Brohm seems to be the exact opposite. He disappears against average competition but when the lights are brightest he looks like a top 5 coach. Similar to Tom Herman. It’s hard to explain.

The long term question is are we ok with this? Are we ok winning games we should and not having a chance in the rest? Are we ok consistently winning 5-7 games a year? Not long ago we would’ve loved that. Do we still?

iowa was no where near the 2nd best team in the country. just like cincinnati isn't.

 

[Army88]

I’ve always been amazed at how some coaches and players seem to elevate themselves against top competition while others disappear. After 4.5 years I think we can all agree who Tom Allen is and who he isn’t. And no, this isn’t a fire Tom Allen thread.

One certainty is he is definitely not a big game coach. He’s just not. He does so many things great but when the lights are brightest he seems to be at his worst. I believe he’s beat 1 Big Ten team in 4.5 years who finished with a winning record. That’s flat out pathetic. Then you add in the bowl game collapses and the picture is clear.

What’s odd is Brohm seems to be the exact opposite. He disappears against average competition but when the lights are brightest he looks like a top 5 coach. Similar to Tom Herman. It’s hard to explain.

The long term question is are we ok with this? Are we ok winning games we should and not having a chance in the rest? Are we ok consistently winning 5-7 games a year? Not long ago we would’ve loved that. Do we still?

I’ve always been amazed at how some coaches and players seem to elevate themselves against top competition while others disappear. After 4.5 years I think we can all agree who Tom Allen is and who he isn’t. And no, this isn’t a fire Tom Allen thread.

One certainty is he is definitely not a big game coach. He’s just not. He does so many things great but when the lights are brightest he seems to be at his worst. I believe he’s beat 1 Big Ten team in 4.5 years who finished with a winning record. That’s flat out pathetic. Then you add in the bowl game collapses and the picture is clear.

What’s odd is Brohm seems to be the exact opposite. He disappears against average competition but when the lights are brightest he looks like a top 5 coach. Similar to Tom Herman. It’s hard to explain.

The long term question is are we ok with this? Are we ok winning games we should and not having a chance in the rest? Are we ok consistently winning 5-7 games a year? Not long ago we would’ve loved that. Do we still?

Are you kidding?
2020 win against Penn State was a fabulous Player and Coaching victory!
I have my own ideas of where I would have called for a different strategy, ( no hands team for obvious onside kick vs Tenn in Gator bowl and not relieving Penix before his injury), but to say he is Not a big time coach is disingenuous.
We are a few breaks away from 4-2,breaks that we seemed to get last year.
Tell me what bad loss we’ve had this year?

 

[grammy2]

The lights were shining pretty bright on Brohm when Purdue played Auburn in the Music City Bowl.

 

[frikkenfrakken]

The lights were shining pretty bright on Brohm when Purdue played Auburn in the Music City Bowl.

Don't bother fpeaugh with facts, he's busy fabricating his next batch of secretly anti-IU opinion pieces.

So far: the best coach we've had in 2 decades is a bad recruiter and wilts in big games. Next, he'll say everyone but him wanted to build a statue for Cam Cameron.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

iowa was no where near the 2nd best team in the country. just like cincinnati isn't.

Iowa isn’t a top 10 team. Neither is MSU. Neither is Michigan. Or Penn State. The Big Ten is overrated every year. OSU is the only legit top 10 team.

It’s a complete joke to have Iowa ranked 2 and Alabama 5 when everyone knows if they played on a neutral field tomorrow Alabama would be at least 18 point favorites. We should start letting Vegas rank the teams.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Are you kidding?
2020 win against Penn State was a fabulous Player and Coaching victory!
I have my own ideas of where I would have called for a different strategy, ( no hands team for obvious onside kick vs Tenn in Gator bowl and not relieving Penix before his injury), but to say he is Not a big time coach is disingenuous.
We are a few breaks away from 4-2,breaks that we seemed to get last year.
Tell me what bad loss we’ve had this year?

You’re not understanding my point. He doesn’t have bad losses. He beats the teams he should. But he also doesn’t produce upsets or win big games.

Penn St started 0-5 last year. They were a train wreck. Like I said, he’s been here 4.5 years and I believe he has one win against a Big Ten opponent who finished the year with a winning record. That’s not a high bar.

I’m not for replacing Allen yet. Not even close. But it’s concerning that he seems to always disappear when the lights are brightest.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

The lights were shining pretty bright on Brohm when Purdue played Auburn in the Music City Bowl.

That’s fair. They were totally outclassed by SEC talent. But you have to give the guy credit for some big wins. And at the same time you have to scratch your head at some of the bonehead losses. He and Allen seem like both ends of the extreme spectrum.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

You’re not understanding my point. He doesn’t have bad losses. He beats the teams he should. But he also doesn’t produce upsets or win big games.

Penn St started 0-5 last year. They were a train wreck. Like I said, he’s been here 4.5 years and I believe he has one win against a Big Ten opponent who finished the year with a winning record. That’s not a high bar.

I’m not for replacing Allen yet. Not even close. But it’s concerning that he seems to always disappear when the lights are brightest.

Did you ever consider our win over Penn State is what sent them into a tailspin? Momentum is a big thing in sports. We might have been the team that tanked last year if we had lost.

 

[jddpt06]

Did you ever consider our win over Penn State is what sent them into a tailspin? Momentum is a big thing in sports. We might have been the team that tanked last year if we had lost.

Needless to say, PSU was extremely overrated to start 2020. Regarding last year’s game, I’ve always viewed it as PSU losing it much more than us winning it. If their back takes a knee instead of scoring, the game is over.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Needless to say, PSU was extremely overrated to start 2020. Regarding last year’s game, I’ve always viewed it as PSU losing it much more than us winning it. If their back takes a knee instead of scoring, the game is over.

But the player did not take a knee. If McFadden had not gotten thrown out for targeting we may have beaten Cincy. If Penix had not thrown a pick 6 last year we may have beaten Ohio State. If we had recovered the onside kick against Tennessee we would have beaten them. Should I go on?

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Did you ever consider our win over Penn State is what sent them into a tailspin? Momentum is a big thing in sports. We might have been the team that tanked last year if we had lost.

No. It was the first game of the year. Not a lot of momentum going in from anyone. And one loss doesn’t create some sort of imaginary “tailspin”.

They were overrated. They got exposed. Then they got throttled by a bad Maryland team before losing to an even worse Nebraska team before getting taken to the cleaners at home to Iowa. Just call it what it is.

 

[TMFT]

No. It was the first game of the year. Not a lot of momentum going in from anyone. And one loss doesn’t create some sort of imaginary “tailspin”.

They were overrated. They got exposed. Then they got throttled by a bad Maryland team before losing to an even worse Nebraska team before getting taken to the cleaners at home to Iowa. Just call it what it is.

Who significant has left PSU since last season?

QB: Same (Sean Clifford)
Leading RB: Same (Keyvonne Lee)
Top 2 WR: Same (Dotson & Washington)
TE: Freirmuth is gone to the NFL

Top 3 tacklers: back (Brooks, Luketa, & Brisker)
3 of 4 who had INTs: back (Brisker, Smith, & Ellis); Lost (Wade)
Top 2 in passes defensed: Both back (Brisker & Porter, Jr.)
They did lose Shake Toney, who also made his way to the NFL.

The PSU team this year is the same, more or less, as the one last year, except missing some NFL talent. How exactly did they suck last year but are top 10 this year? Did they just forget how to play football all of a sudden?

W-L doesn't tell the whole story, in fact in college football I'd say it rarely does. Last year these guys lost games, this year they're winning games. That's the long & short of it.

 

[Eyedoc991]

I remember 3-8 or 4-7 being “on our way up”.

Remember: we are still the losingest program in college football history. Going bowling 3 out of every 4 years is a big deal.

We have a long way to go before we can feel ok with firing a coach 1.5 years after winning a Natty.

 

[Coach Geez]

Who significant has left PSU since last season?

QB: Same (Sean Clifford)
Leading RB: Same (Keyvonne Lee)
Top 2 WR: Same (Dotson & Washington)
TE: Freirmuth is gone to the NFL

Top 3 tacklers: back (Brooks, Luketa, & Brisker)
3 of 4 who had INTs: back (Brisker, Smith, & Ellis); Lost (Wade)
Top 2 in passes defensed: Both back (Brisker & Porter, Jr.)
They did lose Shake Toney, who also made his way to the NFL.

The PSU team this year is the same, more or less, as the one last year, except missing some NFL talent. How exactly did they suck last year but are top 10 this year? Did they just forget how to play football all of a sudden?

W-L doesn't tell the whole story, in fact in college football I'd say it rarely does. Last year these guys lost games, this year they're winning games. That's the long & short of it.

Micah Parsons opted out last year who would have likely been the defensive player of the year nationally.

Journey Brown also opted out and ultimately retired, he was set to be their lead returning back.

Penn State did what good programs do and fired their OC who hadn't even been there for a cup of coffee for total incompetence. Let's see if Allen follows suit.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

But the player did not take a knee. If McFadden had not gotten thrown out for targeting we may have beaten Cincy. If Penix had not thrown a pick 6 last year we may have beaten Ohio State. If we had recovered the onside kick against Tennessee we would have beaten them. Should I go on?

I don't know that we would have beaten TN if we recovered the on-side kick. We were already fading at that point. Not recovering the on-side kick just made it inevitable we would lose. And beating OSU was not going to happen.

We probably would have beaten Cincy if McFadden hadn't gotten booted. Probably 75-80%. But Cincy did have a half-time to get things together.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Who significant has left PSU since last season?

QB: Same (Sean Clifford)
Leading RB: Same (Keyvonne Lee)
Top 2 WR: Same (Dotson & Washington)
TE: Freirmuth is gone to the NFL

Top 3 tacklers: back (Brooks, Luketa, & Brisker)
3 of 4 who had INTs: back (Brisker, Smith, & Ellis); Lost (Wade)
Top 2 in passes defensed: Both back (Brisker & Porter, Jr.)
They did lose Shake Toney, who also made his way to the NFL.

The PSU team this year is the same, more or less, as the one last year, except missing some NFL talent. How exactly did they suck last year but are top 10 this year? Did they just forget how to play football all of a sudden?

W-L doesn't tell the whole story, in fact in college football I'd say it rarely does. Last year these guys lost games, this year they're winning games. That's the long & short of it.

I don’t know anything about PSU’s roster but I do know they had multiple guys opt out. They had 6 guys get drafted. Plus guys can make big jumps season to season. Look at how Joe Burrow changed from his Junior to senior years.

 

[TMFT]

I don’t know anything about PSU’s roster but I do know they had multiple guys opt out. They had 6 guys get drafted. Plus guys can make big jumps season to season. Look at how Joe Burrow changed from his Junior to senior years.

Exactly, you don’t know anything about PSU’s roster, but you’re more than willing to say they were trash last year, very good this year with the same roster. Guys opted out, but unless they opted back in for this season it’s a moot point because we’re talking virtually the same roster.

guys should grow as athletes year over year, but there’s no way they would all grow enough to all of a sudden go from being bad at football to great at football as a team.

Ws & Ls are what matter for championships, but they’re not necessarily the measure of how good a team is because, as PSU will tell you from last year’s opener (or IU Saturday), sometimes you can dominate a team in everything but the score. The score matters, but it doesn’t tell the whole story.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Exactly, you don’t know anything about PSU’s roster, but you’re more than willing to say they were trash last year, very good this year with the same roster. Guys opted out, but unless they opted back in for this season it’s a moot point because we’re talking virtually the same roster.

guys should grow as athletes year over year, but there’s no way they would all grow enough to all of a sudden go from being bad at football to great at football as a team.

Ws & Ls are what matter for championships, but they’re not necessarily the measure of how good a team is because, as PSU will tell you from last year’s opener (or IU Saturday), sometimes you can dominate a team in everything but the score. The score matters, but it doesn’t tell the whole story.

You’re ignoring facts and believing what you hope is true. The facts are they started 0-5. Lost to Maryland and Nebraska. Got crushed by Iowa. They were not a good team. Please join us back on Earth.

 

[TMFT]

You’re ignoring facts and believing what you hope is true. The facts are they started 0-5. Lost to Maryland and Nebraska. Got crushed by Iowa. They were not a good team. Please join us back on Earth.

The F you talking about?

What facts am I ignoring? I concede they lost last year and are winning this year. The converse is true of IU. Considering both teams overwhelmingly consist of the same players as last year, how do you justify your premise that these guys remembered/forgot how to play football over the course of a year?

the problem is that you’re only looking at Ws & Ls. It’s like crapping on a play caller because every play doesn’t hit. Which is to say it’s more complicated than that.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

The F you talking about?

What facts am I ignoring? I concede they lost last year and are winning this year. The converse is true of IU. Considering both teams overwhelmingly consist of the same players as last year, how do you justify your premise that these guys remembered/forgot how to play football over the course of a year?

the problem is that you’re only looking at seas & Ls. It’s like crapping on a play caller because every play doesn’t hit. Which is to say it’s more complicated than that.

You can’t compare last year to anything. They missed a ton of practice, prep, fans, etc. Players were being isolated from the world. Last year was an anomaly that you can’t put much stock in.

 

[E.Z.Rider]

And of course we didn't experience any of that.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

You can’t compare last year to anything. They missed a ton of practice, prep, fans, etc. Players were being isolated from the world. Last year was an anomaly that you can’t put much stock in.

I have read this on GBI for almost a year. I think they use it at halftime on the scoreboard.

 

[TMFT]

You can’t compare last year to anything. They missed a ton of practice, prep, fans, etc. Players were being isolated from the world. Last year was an anomaly that you can’t put much stock in.

EXPLAIN. HOW. THE. SAME. GUYS. WERE. "BAD." A. YEAR. AGO. BUT. GOOD. NOW.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

I have read this on GBI for almost a year. I think they use it at halftime on the scoreboard.

I don’t even know how to get to GBI but it sounds like they have some reasonable people. And I don’t think Purdue needs anything on the scoreboard besides their score right now. They’re 4-2 and just went to the #2 ranked team in the country and completely embarrassed them. Why fans of any program insist on blind irrational bias will never make sense to me.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

EXPLAIN. HOW. THE. SAME. GUYS. WERE. "BAD." A. YEAR. AGO. BUT. GOOD. NOW.

It’s not the same players you clown. About half their starters didn’t start there last year. They lost 6 to the NFL draft alone. They added 16 recruits and 6 transfers in the off-season. The returners had a more normal spring and summer this year. Of all the dumb takes I’ve read on here over the years this one is a finalist for Hall of Fame dumbest takes. Get a clue buddy.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

And of course we didn't experience any of that.

We certainly did and obviously benefitted from it. If that were the new norm you could use it to project. But hopefully we never have a season like 2020 ever again. We can’t expect to play in an empty Big House or Shoe going forward without that pressure. It’s apples and oranges.

 

[TMFT]

It’s not the same players you clown. About half their starters didn’t start there last year. They lost 6 to the NFL draft alone. They added 16 recruits and 6 transfers in the off-season. The returners had a more normal spring and summer this year. Of all the dumb takes I’ve read on here over the years this one is a finalist for Hall of Fame dumbest takes. Get a clue buddy.

Hang on now, and I'm having to repeat from earlier.

This is who they have back:
QB: Same (Sean Clifford)
Leading RB: Same (Keyvonne Lee)
Top 2 WR: Same (Dotson & Washington)
TE: Freirmuth is gone to the NFL

Top 3 tacklers: back (Brooks, Luketa, & Brisker)
3 of 4 who had INTs: back (Brisker, Smith, & Ellis); Lost (Wade)
Top 2 in passes defensed: Both back (Brisker & Porter, Jr.)

And they lost 6 NFL players (actually 5 since Parsons didn't play last year). Hate to see those guys were dragging them down.

And they sucked last year and are good this year?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I don’t even know how to get to GBI but it sounds like they have some reasonable people. And I don’t think Purdue needs anything on the scoreboard besides their score right now. They’re 4-2 and just went to the #2 ranked team in the country and completely embarrassed them. Why fans of any program insist on blind irrational bias will never make sense to me.

I would ask you the same question.

And I wasn't talking about the PU FB team. Curious take on your part

 

[Courtsensetwo]

And of course we didn't experience any of that.

Exactly

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Hang on now, and I'm having to repeat from earlier.

This is who they have back:
QB: Same (Sean Clifford)
Leading RB: Same (Keyvonne Lee)
Top 2 WR: Same (Dotson & Washington)
TE: Freirmuth is gone to the NFL

Top 3 tacklers: back (Brooks, Luketa, & Brisker)
3 of 4 who had INTs: back (Brisker, Smith, & Ellis); Lost (Wade)
Top 2 in passes defensed: Both back (Brisker & Porter, Jr.)

And they lost 6 NFL players (actually 5 since Parsons didn't play last year). Hate to see those guys were dragging them down.

And they sucked last year and are good this year?

Let’s not act like they’re Alabama this year. Who is their best win? Has to be Auburn.

It’s a completely different football team. No reasonable person would ever judge a team based on the success or failure of the following season. That’s asinine. They went 4-5 last year and lost to some bad teams. Please get a clue.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

I would ask you the same question.

And I wasn't talking about the PU FB team. Curious take on your part

I don’t see where I asked a question.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I don’t see where I asked a question.

It was a question in statement form.

Poorly written, but we knew what you meant.

 

[E.Z.Rider]

We certainly did and obviously benefitted from it. If that were the new norm you could use it to project. But hopefully we never have a season like 2020 ever again. We can’t expect to play in an empty Big House or Shoe going forward without that pressure. It’s apples and oranges.

We benefited from it but no-one else did? THAT'S comparing apples to oranges.

It's like playing a game in the snow ... the fans bitch about how it hurts our this and that ... but the other guys are playing in the snow too. If co-vid adversely affected the other teams it adversely affected us.

You're looking for ways to elevate our competition and degrade us, which is why you get labeled a PU fan and find yourself on the outside looking in. You're back to walking down a slippery slope.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

We benefited from it but no-one else did? THAT'S comparing apples to oranges.

It's like playing a game in the snow ... the fans bitch about how it hurts our this and that ... but the other guys are playing in the snow too. If co-vid adversely affected the other teams it adversely affected us.

You're looking for ways to elevate our competition and degrade us, which is why you get labeled a PU fan and find yourself on the outside looking in. You're back to walking down a slippery slope.

It’s not the same for every team though. Think of the Brady Manning rivalry. When they had to play in the snow Brady dominated. When they played in the dome Manning dominated. Unfortunately for Manning and the Colts they played way more in NE than Indy.

In the Big Ten not every team has the same home field advantage. The Big House is a better advantage than Memorial Stadium. They missed fans more than we did.

Some teams had more players opt out. Some states/schools had tougher restrictions on students than others. I agree that all schools had challenges but they were far from the same. Pointing that out doesn’t make me a Purdue fan.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

It was a question in statement form.

Poorly written, but we knew what you meant.

I was simply stating that every fanbase has its share of blind irrational fans. That can only see their own reality through one lens. That’s just reality not a question.

 

[E.Z.Rider]

You're digging a deeper hole. You have intimated that the only reason we had a successful season last year was because co-vid crippled our opponents. Now you are saying SOME teams had op-outs, SOME teams had restrictions, the CHALLENGES were not the same, but apparently in your twisted view ALL the other teams had more challenges than us ... well good for us!

And, as already pointed out, if we had all played an OOC schedule wouldn't most of our wins be against teams with winning records? Add 3 wins to all of our opponents and see.

You are quick to fault when we lose, disappear when we win and, judging from the replies to your posts, generally unlikable.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

You're digging a deeper hole. You have intimated that the only reason we had a successful season last year was because co-vid crippled our opponents. Now you are saying SOME teams had op-outs, SOME teams had restrictions, the CHALLENGES were not the same, but apparently in your twisted view ALL the other teams had more challenges than us ... well good for us!

And, as already pointed out, if we had all played an OOC schedule wouldn't most of our wins be against teams with winning records? Add 3 wins to all of our opponents and see.

You are quick to fault when we lose, disappear when we win and, judging from the replies to your posts, generally unlikable.

I never said it’s the only reason. I don’t know where you dreamed that up. I said that’s one reason. That’s really not debatable. It was a factor. I’m not sure why anyone would have trouble acknowledging that.