Banning (really banning) teaching of CRT in higher education is wrong and unconstitutional

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Texas Lt. Gov. seeking to revoke tenure to college professors who teach CRT:

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258543928.html?ac_cid=DM608987&ac_bid=-1001437090

I'm pretty sure no one on this board despises the push of CRT/anti-racism into public K-12 schools more than me. But there is a bright dividing line between forced public education of minors and volitional education of adults. There is also a huge difference in the academic freedoms between college professors, who are supposed to be "creating" knowledge and those teaching children.

First Amendment jurisprudence generally recognizes this distinction. But to even broach the topic by outlawing teaching CRT/anti-racism or even revoking/denying tenure to faculty who teach or write about it, is wrong and dangerous. (That said, I think that most writing in this area is pure bunk and 99% of the people "teaching" or "researching" these topics should be fired for incompetence or not given tenure for bad writing, but those are department decisions that should be made on the merits of a person's work, not based on a blanket ban of ideas, no matter how pernicious or stupid).

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Texas Lt. Gov. seeking to revoke tenure to college professors who teach CRT:

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258543928.html?ac_cid=DM608987&ac_bid=-1001437090

I'm pretty sure no one on this board despises the push of CRT/anti-racism into public K-12 schools more than me. But there is a bright dividing line between forced public education of minors and volitional education of adults. There is also a huge difference in the academic freedoms between college professors, who are supposed to be "creating" knowledge and those teaching children.

First Amendment jurisprudence generally recognizes this distinction. But to even broach the topic by outlawing teaching CRT/anti-racism or even revoking/denying tenure to faculty who teach or write about it, is wrong and dangerous. (That said, I think that most writing in this area is pure bunk and 99% of the people "teaching" or "researching" these topics should be fired for incompetence or not given tenure for bad writing, but those are department decisions that should be made on the merits of a person's work, not based on a blanket ban of ideas, no matter how pernicious or stupid).

Maybe they should just call it “the historical sociology and impact of slavery in the United States.”

But the underlying notion that most white people are racist is hate speech, not academic research. But with all the Clintonistas out there forced to live with The Deplorables, and all the Biden voters calling all non-Biden voters racists, I understand their desperate need to stagger around until they find some justification for their behavior. Easier than admitting what they did and saying sorry. Even if it destroys what is left of the Republic.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Texas Lt. Gov. seeking to revoke tenure to college professors who teach CRT:

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258543928.html?ac_cid=DM608987&ac_bid=-1001437090

I'm pretty sure no one on this board despises the push of CRT/anti-racism into public K-12 schools more than me. But there is a bright dividing line between forced public education of minors and volitional education of adults. There is also a huge difference in the academic freedoms between college professors, who are supposed to be "creating" knowledge and those teaching children.

First Amendment jurisprudence generally recognizes this distinction. But to even broach the topic by outlawing teaching CRT/anti-racism or even revoking/denying tenure to faculty who teach or write about it, is wrong and dangerous. (That said, I think that most writing in this area is pure bunk and 99% of the people "teaching" or "researching" these topics should be fired for incompetence or not given tenure for bad writing, but those are department decisions that should be made on the merits of a person's work, not based on a blanket ban of ideas, no matter how pernicious or stupid).

I agree the Lt. Gov. Is wrong about this. In the adult world, censorship is seldom justified. That being said, there is a plenty of hypocrisy in this whole field. Faculty have been forced to apologize, or even removed, for instructing about use of the N-word as a quote in academic material. Yet teaching about all whites being racist, or whites being unique beneficiaries of slavery goes by without comment.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Maybe they should just call it “the historical sociology and impact of slavery in the United States.”

But the underlying notion that most white people are racist is hate speech, not academic research. But with all the Clintonistas out there forced to live with The Deplorables, and all the Biden voters calling all non-Biden voters racists, I understand their desperate need to stagger around until they find some justification for their behavior. Easier than admitting what they did and saying sorry. Even if it destroys what is left of the Republic.

Imputing the sins of slavery to all white people of the early Colonial days and the first 70 years or so of the U S has always been at least unjustified if not flat out wrong. Imputing the sins of slavery to whites today is not only unjustified and wrong, it is also illegal racial harassment if done in the workplace or in the halls of academia.

 

[outside shooter]

If you grew up in the 1820s, 1840s, 1890s, 1920s, 1940s, or even the 1960s, your school textbooks quite literally focused on American history meaning the progress of whites in a struggle to form a lasting democracy. Anything that was less than an Anglo Saxon was not a true American.

This Harvard historian sytematically studied archived textbooks from many eras, including one by Daniel Webster himself. There is a clear lean toward white supremacy as a core American value.

Harvard historian examines how textbooks taught white supremacy

We interview historian Donald Yacovone, an associate at The Hutchins Center for African & African American Research, who is writing the book “Teaching White Supremacy: The Textbook Battle Over Race in American History.”

news.harvard.edu

 

[CO. Hoosier]

If you grew up in the 1820s, 1840s, 1890s, 1920s, 1940s, or even the 1960s, your school textbooks quite literally focused on American history meaning the progress of whites in a struggle to form a lasting democracy. Anything that was less than an Anglo Saxon was not a true American.

This Harvard historian sytematically studied archived textbooks from many eras, including one by Daniel Webster himself. There is a clear lean toward white supremacy as a core American value.

Harvard historian examines how textbooks taught white supremacy

We interview historian Donald Yacovone, an associate at The Hutchins Center for African & African American Research, who is writing the book “Teaching White Supremacy: The Textbook Battle Over Race in American History.”

news.harvard.edu

Whites have accomplished many great things in politics, science, medicine and other fields. Do you consider those accomplishments, or discussing them, to be evidence of white supremacy? It seems to me that for many people even noting the many accomplishments of white peoples is evidence of supremacy. I don’t get that. We certainly can’t ignore the impacts of those things in the name of equality, can we?

Deliberate failure to mention black accomplishments is a different matter. But even during this Black History Month, the material seems not to be about accomplishments, but about the struggle. The stories about people like Katherine Johnson, Jackie Robinson, and Ben Carson are truly inspirational and timely. They are not prominently discussed.

 

[outside shooter]

..for many people even noting the many accomplishments of white peoples is evidence of supremacy.

ONLY noting the many accomplishments of white peoples is evidence of supremacy

read. the. link.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Imputing the sins of slavery to all white people of the early Colonial days and the first 70 years or so of the U S has always been at least unjustified if not flat out wrong. Imputing the sins of slavery to whites today is not only unjustified and wrong, it is also illegal racial harassment if done in the workplace or in the halls of academia.

.

ONLY noting the many accomplishments of white peoples is evidence of supremacy

read. the. link.

so teaching about Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver, Sojourner Truth, the Red Tails from Tuskeegee, MLK, etc doesnt count? You ever seen a high school history book without those folks?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

The stories about people like Katherine Johnson, Jackie Robinson, and Ben Carson are truly inspirational and timely. They are not prominently discussed.

Where? How do you know? Or are you just spouting?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

.

so teaching about Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver, Sojourner Truth, the Red Tails from Tuskeegee, MLK, etc doesnt count? You ever seen a high school history book without those folks?

I sense an imminent goal post shift.

 

[outside shooter]

.

so teaching about Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver, Sojourner Truth, the Red Tails from Tuskeegee, MLK, etc doesnt count? You ever seen a high school history book without those folks?

Today? No. When I was growing up in the 70s? Fairly often. Before 1960? Pretty much always.

I have said that my first awareness of the Tulsa race riots ever happened came last year. It was never taught. But somehow the story of how the Liberty Bell got a crack in it was covered.

 

[iuwclurker]

Texas Lt. Gov. seeking to revoke tenure to college professors who teach CRT:

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258543928.html?ac_cid=DM608987&ac_bid=-1001437090

I'm pretty sure no one on this board despises the push of CRT/anti-racism into public K-12 schools more than me. But there is a bright dividing line between forced public education of minors and volitional education of adults. There is also a huge difference in the academic freedoms between college professors, who are supposed to be "creating" knowledge and those teaching children.

First Amendment jurisprudence generally recognizes this distinction. But to even broach the topic by outlawing teaching CRT/anti-racism or even revoking/denying tenure to faculty who teach or write about it, is wrong and dangerous. (That said, I think that most writing in this area is pure bunk and 99% of the people "teaching" or "researching" these topics should be fired for incompetence or not given tenure for bad writing, but those are department decisions that should be made on the merits of a person's work, not based on a blanket ban of ideas, no matter how pernicious or stupid).

Not a comment on the OP of banning CRT but I find it ironic that liberals profess to care about antiracism while being so adamantly in favor of psychiatry.

Since the 1800s psychiatry in the United States has been a steadfast proponent of eugenics and has worked diligently to prove that blacks are genetically inferior. Such efforts carried into the 1990s at least and are probably deeply entrenched in psychiatry today in one form or another.

Psychiatry: Creating Racism

Watch the videos. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights gives the truth about psychiatry. Take a virtual tour of Psychiatry: An Industry of Death Museum. Arm yourself with the truth and then find out what you can do to take action to help bring psychiatry to justice.

www.cchr.org

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Harlem​

BY LANGSTON HUGHES

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?


Inspirational? Or too woke?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Harlem​

BY LANGSTON HUGHES

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?


Inspirational? Or too woke?

Too old

 

[iuwclurker]

Harlem​

BY LANGSTON HUGHES

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?


Inspirational? Or too woke?

A dream isn’t a thing. It’s you. It’s dormant until you rekindle it.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

A dream isn’t a thing. It’s you. It’s dormant until you rekindle it.

Did I leave that stanza out, Langston?

 

[iuwclurker]

Did I leave that stanza out, Langston?

No, man, I left that entire sentiment out. I was feeling old and really shitty that day.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

No, man, I left that entire sentiment out. I was feeling old and really shitty that day.

Old in 1951? I bet you feel shitty every day.

 

[iuwclurker]

Old in 1951? I bet you feel shitty every day.

I wonder if you feel schizo every day. First I’m Langston, now I’m me, make up your mind.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Too old

To cover in a HS lit class?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Not a comment on the OP of banning CRT but I find it ironic that liberals profess to care about antiracism while being so adamantly in favor of psychiatry.

Since the 1800s psychiatry in the United States has been a steadfast proponent of eugenics and has worked diligently to prove that blacks are genetically inferior. Such efforts carried into the 1990s at least and are probably deeply entrenched in psychiatry today in one form or another.

Psychiatry: Creating Racism

Watch the videos. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights gives the truth about psychiatry. Take a virtual tour of Psychiatry: An Industry of Death Museum. Arm yourself with the truth and then find out what you can do to take action to help bring psychiatry to justice.

www.cchr.org

 

[cosmickid]

Today? No. When I was growing up in the 70s? Fairly often. Before 1960? Pretty much always.

I have said that my first awareness of the Tulsa race riots ever happened came last year. It was never taught. But somehow the story of how the Liberty Bell got a crack in it was covered.

This is eye opening for me. I had never heard about any of this, much less Tulsa prior to a few years ago.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

.

so teaching about Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver, Sojourner Truth, the Red Tails from Tuskeegee, MLK, etc doesnt count? You ever seen a high school history book without those folks?

The issue isn't that things are ignored. I mean, that might sometimes be the issue. A lot of people apparently wanted to ignore Tulsa, as that keeps coming up. But even teaching all these things doesn't really address the main issue.

The main issue about American history being white history is context. A history textbook about America is essentially a chronological list of events that happened to and by white Americans, and black America only surfaces when it interferes with that white history. So, for example, a textbook is going to have a section on slavery, it will undoubtedly make it clear that slavery was wrong. When I was in school, my textbook included famous pictures of scarred slaves, diagrams of boats, descriptions of how awful their treatment was, etc. It wasn't sugar-coated.

But it was in a section of the book leading up to the Civil War. That seems like a logical place to talk about slavery. After all, you certainly need to cover slavery before you get to the Civil War, or the Civil War won't make any sense.

But for black America, slavery isn't something that happened in the 19th century. It isn't something that simply bubbled up out of nowhere to become a national crisis. Slavery was history, for centuries. It was what America was for most blacks.

In a similar vein, my textbook taught about the Civil Rights Movement. We learned about Rosa Parks and MLK, and all that stuff. But we learned about it in a section about the mid-20th century. The things MLK was fighting against didn't happen in the 20th century. They were continuing to happen in the 20th century, dating all the way back to the end of the Civil War.

For standard American history, these stories are episodes that are inserted into the narrative when they become "important." But for black Americans, they represent what the history of America was for all those intervening years that our textbooks don't even mention them.

I think it was CO.H above that lamented that Black History Month is usually spent talking about the "struggle" instead of black accomplishments. That's the misunderstanding, right there, fully encapsulated in one single complaint. The struggle is the history, and it didn't just exist in 1860 or 1963.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Not a comment on the OP of banning CRT but I find it ironic that liberals profess to care about antiracism while being so adamantly in favor of psychiatry.

Since the 1800s psychiatry in the United States has been a steadfast proponent of eugenics and has worked diligently to prove that blacks are genetically inferior. Such efforts carried into the 1990s at least and are probably deeply entrenched in psychiatry today in one form or another.

Psychiatry: Creating Racism

Watch the videos. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights gives the truth about psychiatry. Take a virtual tour of Psychiatry: An Industry of Death Museum. Arm yourself with the truth and then find out what you can do to take action to help bring psychiatry to justice.

www.cchr.org

I actually haven't heard any liberal comment about psychiatry. Tell me more lmao

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

To cover in a HS lit class?

To be still relevant

 

[UncleMark]

I actually haven't heard any liberal comment about psychiatry. Tell me more lmao

lurker is a Scientologist, but he tries to keep it on the down low.

 

[mcmurtry66]

lurker is a Scientologist, but he tries to keep it on the down low.

Sweet. There's a big Scientology church down the street from me. They have "open houses" all the time. I keep trying to get my stoker to go with me but she won't. I'm going to pop in alone here soon.

 

[UncleMark]

Sweet. There's a big Scientology church down the street from me. They have "open houses" all the time. I keep trying to get my stoker to go with me but she won't. I'm going to pop in alone here soon.

Bring your wallet.

 

[TomEric4756]

It’s different to outline the tenants of a false theory for the purpose of its examination,
than to teach a false theory as the truth.

Phrenology comes to mind.

Running any class (pedagogy) under the tenants of a false theory is just wrong.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

To be still relevant

Maybe it's just not relevant to you.

 

[iuwclurker]

I actually haven't heard any liberal comment about psychiatry. Tell me more lmao

Read the DNP 2020 platform, amigo.

 

[iuwclurker]

lurker is a Scientologist, but he tries to keep it on the down low.

Nothing down low here. Just doing my civic duty.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think it was CO.H above that lamented that Black History Month is usually spent talking about the "struggle" instead of black accomplishments. That's the misunderstanding, right there, fully encapsulated in one single complaint. The struggle is the history, and it didn't just exist in 1860 or 1963.

Yep, that was me. I choose to be inspired by history, not depressed by it. The story of those who overcome obstacles to do great things, or even not so great things, is much more valuable than the story if those who are beaten by it. Both stories are relevant and should be learned and understood. But if living a full and satisfying life is part of the purpose of a well-rounded education, being inspired by history is not a misunderstanding.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Yep, that was me. I choose to be inspired by history, not depressed by it. The story of those who overcome obstacles to do great things, or even not so great things, is much more valuable than the story if those who are beaten by it. Both stories are relevant and should be learned and understood. But if living a full and satisfying life is part of the purpose of a well-rounded education, being inspired by history is not a misunderstanding.

Being inspired is good. But the point is, after reconstruction, while you're reading about the taming of the West, the Gilded Age, WW1, WW2, etc., you're spending months reading white history, and black history is still going on. All that stuff you read about briefly when you finally get to the section on the Civil Rights movement - it's already going on, nonstop.

I'm not surprised that history would depress you. It's depressing history. But it is real history.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Read the DNP 2020 platform, amigo.

Was it something like "whatever Trump says"...nevermind, that was rnc

So you think mental health should be ignored? I didn't realize that was a political battleground but that article you linked was garbage.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Being inspired is good. But the point is, after reconstruction, while you're reading about the taming of the West, the Gilded Age, WW1, WW2, etc., you're spending months reading white history, and black history is still going on. All that stuff you read about briefly when you finally get to the section on the Civil Rights movement - it's already going on, nonstop.

I'm not surprised that history would depress you. It's depressing history. But it is real history.

You are an honest liberal; I’ll give you that.

Why Are Liberals So Miserable?

I'm the kind of guyWho never used to cryThe world is treatin' me badMisery -- The Beatles

www.rasmussenreports.com

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You are an honest liberal; I’ll give you that.

Why Are Liberals So Miserable?

I'm the kind of guyWho never used to cryThe world is treatin' me badMisery -- The Beatles

www.rasmussenreports.com

Thanks for the actual discussion, for as short as it lasted.

 

[iuwclurker]

Was it something like "whatever Trump says"...nevermind, that was rnc

So you think mental health should be ignored? I didn't realize that was a political battleground but that article you linked was garbage.

Of course everybody wants people to be mentally healthy. That’s not really what my point is about here. The point is Psychiatry, largely unbeknownst to most people, has had a very significant hand in creating modern systemic racism over much of the last two centuries. That strikes me as relevant in the context of this thread. And it’s not a political point as a matter of fact. It’s something that should be appalling to everybody.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Of course everybody wants people to be mentally healthy. That’s not really what my point is about here. The point is Psychiatry, largely unbeknownst to most people, has had a very significant hand in creating modern systemic racism over much of the last two centuries. That strikes me as relevant in the context of this thread. And it’s not a political point as a matter of fact. It’s something that should be appalling to everybo

Never mind

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Of course everybody wants people to be mentally healthy. That’s not really what my point is about here. The point is Psychiatry, largely unbeknownst to most people, has had a very significant hand in creating modern systemic racism over much of the last two centuries. That strikes me as relevant in the context of this thread. And it’s not a political point as a matter of fact. It’s something that should be appalling to everybody.

If it was true that psychiatry equal racism but that is bs