Ballhandling.

[Cavanagh]

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision. JG was the biggest disappointment, absolutely no development there. A close second was Tamar. Galloway is never gonna be a great ball handler, and I really don't want to see him as the PG ever this year.

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Mack will be able to put the ball on the floor at a high level. Ware is going to have that freedom too, not as confident in him being solid off the bounce.

Lastly, I can't help myself, Newt is gonna be a ****ing stud. Get that knee healthy and watch the F out. Watch the Jim Coyle interview with him from a few days ago. Favorite player is Russ. No fear in the guy, said he can't wait to go at X in practice. He is gonna be a STUD!!!!!

 

[ButHerEmails]

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision. JG was the biggest disappointment, absolutely no development there. A close second was Tamar. Galloway is never gonna be a great ball handler, and I really don't want to see him as the PG ever this year.

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Mack will be able to put the ball on the floor at a high level. Ware is going to have that freedom too, not as confident in him being solid off the bounce.

Lastly, I can't help myself, Newt is gonna be a ****ing stud. Get that knee healthy and watch the F out. Watch the Jim Coyle interview with him from a few days ago. Favorite player is Russ. No fear in the guy, said he can't wait to go at X in practice. He is gonna be a STUD!!!!!

No Peter Jurkin joke to go along with “Ballhandling”? This forum is getting more and more disappointing.

 

[hookyIU1990]

No Peter Jurkin joke to go along with “Ballhandling”? This forum is getting more and more disappointing.

You could have made the joke, but chose not to.

Be the change you want to see on the forum or STFU - Ghandi

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision.

probably why you aren't a scout.

if TJD was our 2nd best ball handler, he'd be McGinnis.

 

[The_Merry_Prankster]

probably why you aren't a scout.

if TJD was our 2nd best ball handler, he'd be McGinnis.

Wut?

He led the team in assists, in assist %, and assist to TO ratio.

 

[kkott]

probably why you aren't a scout.

if TJD was our 2nd best ball handler, he'd be McGinnis.

I think I get his point: steady in putting it on the floor, decision making, etc... Not 2nd best where he's bringing the ball up and running the offense, but I didn't mind him having it in his hands on the wing, putting it on the floor and making plays.

But, it begs the question that if we are losing our 2 best ball-handlers, and 3 of his top 4, 4 of his top 5, it's hard to imagine us being much better ball handling. XJ might be a better dribbler, but not sure he's as good a passer as JHS. Heard good things about MM with the ball and think it's also a strength of Ware, but still, not sure we'll be markedly better. We'll see!

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Wut?

He led the team in assists, in assist %, and assist to TO ratio.

Pay attention. He will just drag you into a thoughtless argument.

 

[The_Merry_Prankster]

Pay attention. He will just drag you into a thoughtless argument.

I'm assuming he actually watched games and saw how TJD was getting assists. Probabaly shouldn't ... considering.

When a forward has more assists per game, per possession, than a NBA first round PG .... that's probably a good sign that player handles the ball very well.

 

[whosyourholydaddy]

I'm hoping Gabe Cupps adds something in both ball handling and reading the floor. Unheralded (by many) winner. Hope that continues.

 

[IUNorth]

I think I get his point: steady in putting it on the floor, decision making, etc... Not 2nd best where he's bringing the ball up and running the offense, but I didn't mind him having it in his hands on the wing, putting it on the floor and making plays.

But, it begs the question that if we are losing our 2 best ball-handlers, and 3 of his top 4, 4 of his top 5, it's hard to imagine us being much better ball handling. XJ might be a better dribbler, but not sure he's as good a passer as JHS. Heard good things about MM with the ball and think it's also a strength of Ware, but still, not sure we'll be markedly better. We'll see!

JHS was not all that good of a passer. Xavier is quite a lot better.

 

[Cavanagh]

JHS was not all that good of a passer. Xavier is quite a lot better.

It’s not even close. I recall about three alley-oops he threw to the 5th row. X is a tremendous passer. Top 10 in the country in assists this year, book it.

 

[VanPastorMan]

No Peter Jurkin joke to go along with “Ballhandling”? This forum is getting more and more disappointing.

Peter Jurkin was never satisfying ultimately. What we needed was the real thing and not some pseudo big man.

 

[Crayfish57]

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Boston Celtics need Jaylen Brown doing the same thing as well Carry a ball, dribble it, treat it like a baby all summer long

 

[.Gerdis]

I expect we have the roster construction

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision. JG was the biggest disappointment, absolutely no development there. A close second was Tamar. Galloway is never gonna be a great ball handler, and I really don't want to see him as the PG ever this year.

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Mack will be able to put the ball on the floor at a high level. Ware is going to have that freedom too, not as confident in him being solid off the bounce.

Lastly, I can't help myself, Newt is gonna be a ****ing stud. Get that knee healthy and watch the F out. Watch the Jim Coyle interview with him from a few days ago. Favorite player is Russ. No fear in the guy, said he can't wait to go at X in practice. He is gonna be a STUD!!!!!

can we spread things out more and rely on less dribble drive, and more quick passing?

Coming into last season we had 2 primary ball handlers. I expected (based on the 2022 BTT) to see quite a bit of the two man game between X and Trace. Obviously x being out led H-S and Trey to pick up the slack, but you are correct that TJD handled the ball very well.

Let me back up, and ask, when you say ball handling I think a lot of people think strictly dribbling (not passing). Trace was much better at bringing the ball up the court , but I was just as impressed with his ability to pass out of the double and triple teams.

This years team won’t be as focused on post play, and I’m hoping we see good spacing and a lot of quick passing. It may sound simplistic, but a ball can move faster being passed than dribbled, and we seem to have the offensive flexibility to excel in mismatches in a quick passing game. There is no reason that we should see a player stagnant pounding the ball into the court in a slow half court game.

Early on, we may be turnover prone, but this type of offensive game is well suited for the defensive pressure I expect to see.

 

[IUNorth]

It’s not even close. I recall about three alley-oops he threw to the 5th row. X is a tremendous passer. Top 10 in the country in assists this year, book it.

Very good basketball player. I’ve come around to the notion he could be a modern, physical, scoring PG. But he was not a very good, or overly willing, passer this season. Xavier gets mislabeled as a score first PG…he’s actually a very good, and willing distributor. One of the strengths in his game.

 

[The_Merry_Prankster]

Very good basketball player. I’ve come around to the notion he could be a modern, physical, scoring PG. But he was not a very good, or overly willing, passer this season. Xavier gets mislabeled as a score first PG…he’s actually a very good, and willing distributor. One of the strengths in his game.

He tends to have tunnel vision though.

 

[The_Merry_Prankster]

rely on less dribble drive, and more quick passing?

Why would we want to? We have one of the best penetrators in the conference.

 

[.Gerdis]

Why would we want to? We have one of the best penetrators in the conference.

I meant outside of him. Even in a quick passing game players have to be versatile, and have the ability to put the ball on the floor. All I am suggesting is that we should have the roster construction for better spacing this year. Getting back to Cavs OP, he is concerned with ball handling (outside of X- of course he is NOT worried about X). My point is one way to counter that is spreading things out and quick passing. Of course X is going to be the head of the snake, and initiating through penetration.

 

[94Hoosier]

Why would we want to? We have one of the best penetrators in the conference.

I thought Isaac haas was the best penetrator in the conference. Or at least the most (in)famous….

 

[The_Merry_Prankster]

I meant outside of him. Even in a quick passing game players have to be versatile, and have the ability to put the ball on the floor. All I am suggesting is that we should have the roster construction for better spacing this year. Getting back to Cavs OP, he is concerned with ball handling (outside of X- of course he is NOT worried about X). My point is one way to counter that is spreading things out and quick passing. Of course X is going to be the head of the snake, and initiating through penetration.

fwiw - I think I get you, basically a more dynamic offense where the ball moves .. but when it comes down to it .. you need creative scorers..

The passing game is by far the more aesthetic, especially over players taking it and creating for themselves, but the more moving parts you need to score, the harder it is, especially at end game and tourney play. (right, Matt Painter?) I guess I'm saying you can't rely on schemes.

Got to have multiple guys that can create and score by themselves without the need for schemed set up.... it's what wins championships and wins close games.

To do that, as Cav is pointing out, and why I agree with him about this, they have to be effective off the bounce. It doesn't mean they have to be Kyrie Magic Iverson. For some players it would mean one or two effective dribbles only.

Which is why TJD was a great balhandler, he was very effective with the dribble and pass. Being a good ballhandler doesn't mean they have to go behind the back and do ankle breaking crossovers .. it means getting to spots, finding open teammates and not turning the ball over. TJD did all of those things very well ..

 

[Hatchets7times]

Huh..
JHS over all in dribbling and passing..
He's going to the NBA after his first yr..

 

[The Vid]

June is definitely one of the top 3 to 4 months for basketball know-nothing nonsense on this board. Pure comedy.

 

[hookyIU1990]

fwiw - I think I get you, basically a more dynamic offense where the ball moves .. but when it comes down to it .. you need creative scorers..

The passing game is by far the more aesthetic, especially over players taking it and creating for themselves, but the more moving parts you need to score, the harder it is, especially at end game and tourney play. (right, Matt Painter?) I guess I'm saying you can't rely on schemes.

Got to have multiple guys that can create and score by themselves without the need for schemed set up.... it's what wins championships and wins close games.

To do that, as Cav is pointing out, and why I agree with him about this, they have to be effective off the bounce. It doesn't mean they have to be Kyrie Magic Iverson. For some players it would mean one or two effective dribbles only.

Which is why TJD was a great balhandler, he was very effective with the dribble and pass. Being a good ballhandler doesn't mean they have to go behind the back and do ankle breaking crossovers .. it means getting to spots, finding open teammates and not turning the ball over. TJD did all of those things very well ..

I'd love to see some secondary action off the ball this season. I grudgingly accepted the Kopp stand in the corner stuff, but the occasional pin down or simple lift would have been a welcome change last season.

 

[This Is Keanu Reeves]

Do you often think about other men masturbating?

Define “often”

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I'd love to see some secondary action off the ball this season. I grudgingly accepted the Kopp stand in the corner stuff, but the occasional pin down or simple lift would have been a welcome change last season.

Nope. You will see an outlet guy still. The difference will be the shooter will be more skilled.

 

[Cavanagh]

June is definitely one of the top 3 to 4 months for basketball know-nothing nonsense on this board. Pure comedy.

interestingly, it directly correlates with how your girlfriend feels in bed.

 

[Cavanagh]

Nope. You will see an outlet guy still. The difference will be the shooter will be more skilled.

Will be able to put it on the floor and blow past the defender with a little pump fake. Miller was slow slow slow.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Will be able to put it on the floor and blow past the defender with a little pump fake. Miller was slow slow slow.

Mackenzie and you might see Trey in that spot some. Won’t be hung up on numbers for spots. 2-3-4..etc. the way it’s looking the offense will function differently. Should be fun watching them develop chemistry.

 

[76-1]

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision. JG was the biggest disappointment, absolutely no development there. A close second was Tamar. Galloway is never gonna be a great ball handler, and I really don't want to see him as the PG ever this year.

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Mack will be able to put the ball on the floor at a high level. Ware is going to have that freedom too, not as confident in him being solid off the bounce.

Lastly, I can't help myself, Newt is gonna be a ****ing stud. Get that knee healthy and watch the F out. Watch the Jim Coyle interview with him from a few days ago. Favorite player is Russ. No fear in the guy, said he can't wait to go at X in practice. He is gonna be a STUD!!!!!

Why do you hate Newt?

 

[Cavanagh]

Why do you hate Newt?

I will be right on this one!!!! He already had his injury curse from some other jackass talking about him last year.

 

[IUNorth]

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision. JG was the biggest disappointment, absolutely no development there. A close second was Tamar. Galloway is never gonna be a great ball handler, and I really don't want to see him as the PG ever this year.

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Mack will be able to put the ball on the floor at a high level. Ware is going to have that freedom too, not as confident in him being solid off the bounce.

Lastly, I can't help myself, Newt is gonna be a ****ing stud. Get that knee healthy and watch the F out. Watch the Jim Coyle interview with him from a few days ago. Favorite player is Russ. No fear in the guy, said he can't wait to go at X in practice. He is gonna be a STUD!!!!!

Obviously ball handling, and playmaking, will be very important for our level of success. If I had to pick one aspect of the game that needs the most improvement, however, I'd say defending ball handling and perimeter player and ball movement. Basically every game we lost last year stemmed from our inability to defend well on the perimeter.

Xavier game was a warning sign. I mentioned it. Most poo poo'd it. Rutgers was another warning sign. Arizona and Kansas were...oh crap, we got some issues, type games... And then Penn State, Iowa, etc... solidified that when we were unable to control the ball defensively, we were a very, very mediocre basketball team. And that was despite TJD having a historically great offensive season...despite Trey and Miller being VERY efficient shooting the ball...despite JHS playing himself into lottery consideration.

XJ will help quite a bit. But even with him, Xavier scored on us very easily, Arizona dominated us, Rutgers scored on us, and Kansas dominated us. But there were glimpses of what we could be when we defend at a high level. If this group can be more consistently close to the Carolina/at Illinois team defensively, we can be a better overall basketball team.

 

[Brewskie]

It’s not even close. I recall about three alley-oops he threw to the 5th row. X is a tremendous passer. Top 10 in the country in assists this year, book it.

Yeah, JHS was a decent passer but he was terrible at throwing the lobs to the rim, noticed that alot.

 

[kkott]

Yeah, JHS was a decent passer but he was terrible at throwing the lobs to the rim, noticed that alot.

I thought JHS was a pretty good passer... didn't always have the best receivers. Early on I saw him make some passes that I thought were good, but the recipient wasn't ready or fumbled it. I thought he did a good job of backing off and making less risky or difficult to catch passes.

 

[IUNorth]

I thought JHS was a pretty good passer... didn't always have the best receivers. Early on I saw him make some passes that I thought were good, but the recipient wasn't ready or fumbled it. I thought he did a good job of backing off and making less risky or difficult to catch passes.

Stats aren't everything...but he had one of the best bigs in the nation, 2 very efficent and good shooters on the wing, and a solid 6th year big around him...and he averaged less than 4 assists per game, and nearly 3 turnovers per game.

He wasn't a particularly good, or willing passer, for someone with his talent.

He's definitely capable. And maybe he just didn't trust his teammates as the year wore on? But he was nearly always "late" with his passes. The lob issues were obvious results of him not anticipating the plays, and making the passes too late.

He's not a natural, pass first type PG. Nothing wrong with that. He's a very good basketball player. But per the comment I responded to...he's not near the passer that Xavier is.

 

[sglowrider]

I think this years success is going to come down to ball handling. Last year we severally lacked in that department. If I was going to rank our best ball handlers last year (excluding X):
JHS
TJD
Galloway
Bates
Miller
The rest were abysmal.

I do think TJD was the second best ball handler, and the person I trusted most putting the ball on the floor and making a decision. JG was the biggest disappointment, absolutely no development there. A close second was Tamar. Galloway is never gonna be a great ball handler, and I really don't want to see him as the PG ever this year.

Gunn and Banks better be walking around with a ball in their hand like Vic did on campus. I saw a workout video of Gunn recently, he dribbled a few times, I about puked. Everyone is concentrating on shooting shooting shooting. I get it it, but being able to create your own shot and break your defender down for an advantageous opportunity makes shooting a lot easier.

Mack will be able to put the ball on the floor at a high level. Ware is going to have that freedom too, not as confident in him being solid off the bounce.

Lastly, I can't help myself, Newt is gonna be a ****ing stud. Get that knee healthy and watch the F out. Watch the Jim Coyle interview with him from a few days ago. Favorite player is Russ. No fear in the guy, said he can't wait to go at X in practice. He is gonna be a STUD!!!!!

Jakai was still wearing his knee brace as of a few days ago.

 

[Cavanagh]

Jakai was still wearing his knee brace as of a few days ago.

View embedded media

He for sure isn’t close to 100%. To be honest, he might never be again. With good rehabilitation and IUs resources, he has the best shot he will get at doing so.

 

[IUNorth]

Jakai was still wearing his knee brace as of a few days ago.

View embedded media

if his knee allows it, he'll be very good at IU. Never know how people will recover from such injuries. Nowadays you almost assume athletes like him will make full recoveries. But his injury was pretty bad.

He obviously has bounce as it is...but he'll need to be fully healed to be able to withstand the grind of a full college season. If he's not fully ready, a medical year could be an option for him???

 

[ams66]

Jakai was still wearing his knee brace as of a few days ago.

That fact by itself doesn't mean much. Brace can be worn for support to help prevent re-injury, doesn't mean he's not healed.

 

[IUNorth]

That fact by itself doesn't mean much. Brace can be worn for support to help prevent re-injury, doesn't mean he's not healed.

True...I'd say its pretty common though, that they push for players to ditch those heavy hinged braces as soon as its safe to do so. In most cases, you get to a certain point where full recovery can't happen while continuing to wear that type of brace. It won't allow certain stabilizer muscles and stuff to fully strengthen and heal around the joint.

In nearly all cases, once a knee injury like his as been repaired, the rehab is focused more on what's around the injury, than the injury itself. Him wearing that type of brace likely implies his rehab isn't close to being done.

 

[ams66]

True...I'd say its pretty common though, that they push for players to ditch those heavy hinged braces as soon as its safe to do so. In most cases, you get to a certain point where full recovery can't happen while continuing to wear that type of brace. It won't allow certain stabilizer muscles and stuff to fully strengthen and heal around the joint.

In nearly all cases, once a knee injury like his as been repaired, the rehab is focused more on what's around the injury, than the injury itself. Him wearing that type of brace likely implies his rehab isn't close to being done.

OK I didn't watch the video, just saw in the thumbnail pic that he had a compression-type support sleeve on his knee. If he's still wearing a big hinged brace then I'd retract what I said.