Argentina elects "far-right" libertarian--will they turn it around?

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Interesting. I'm just reading some of his statements now. Pro-US and pro-Israel? Thatcher fanboy? Things must be really bad in Argentina for him to get elected on that sort of platform.

Have you not been paying attention?

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentine-economy-likely-already-recession-analysts-say-2023-12-14/#:~:text=Argentina%2C%20the%20third%20largest%20economy,to%20local%20and%20global%20creditors.

And this isn't new...

Argentina: Is Javier Milei moving closer to the West? – DW – 01/06/2024

President Milei has drastic plans to tackle Argentina's staggering IMF debt. In foreign policy, he seems to be looking toward the US rather than China, doesn't much like Mercosur and turned down BRICS. Quo vadis, Milei?

www.dw.com

Argentina was once a wealthy country but has been dogged for decades by massive economic problems. Between 1983, the year democracy was reintroduced in the country, and 2021, its gross domestic product has increased by just 29% per capita. To make the comparison: This figure increased in the same period by 48% in the Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, and by 87% worldwide.

The economic crisis has worsened in the past few years. For example, the official poverty rate grew from 32.2% in 2016 to more than 40% in the first half of 2023. And the annual inflation rate, having remained in the two figures for years, officially hit 161% in 2023 as well.

Lessons from Argentina’s Default on its International Sovereign Debt

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Argentina has defaulted on its international sovereign debt nine times, including three times during the past two decades. In 2001, the government defaulted on more than US$132 billion of federal sovereign debt. By the end of 2019, Argentina owed about US$323 billion of federal sovereign debt to, among others, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Paris Club and private bondholders. In May 2020, Argentina defaulted (and restructured) again on the payment of its international sovereign bonds.

 

[IUCrazy2]

This guy. A polite "**** You" in their faces.

 

[BradStevens]

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This guy. A polite "**** You" in their faces.

Regulating monopolies leads to socialism? Am I missing something?

 

[hookyIU1990]

Regulating monopolies leads to socialism? Am I missing something?

I assume that the point was about the state's monopolies as part of socialism, but it was lost in translation. Otherwise, that statement was way out of place compared to the rest of the speech.

 

[BradStevens]

I assume that the point was about the state's monopolies as part of socialism, but it was lost in translation. Otherwise, that statement was way out of place compared to the rest of the speech.

He's a true libertarian. He thinks any interference in "the market" is bad, and that there are no such things as market failures. I'd like to hear how he thinks of externalities like pollution and how to regulate nuisances to private property. But the jump from regulating monopolies to socialism is really exagerrating things.

 

[snarlcakes]

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This guy. A polite "**** You" in their faces.

He’s a great leader. The only disappointment is a speech like that should be coming from the U.S. President.

 

[hoot1]

Regulating monopolies leads to socialism? Am I missing something?

My good friend Teddy Roosevelt would be asking the same question ?

 

[IUCrazy2]

 

[snarlcakes]

 

[BradStevens]

@snarlcakes tonight:

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

@snarlcakes tonight:

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Someone get that girl a cheeseburger STAT!

 

[mattndallas]

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

@snarlcakes tonight:

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Is that a famous movie, or did Elon just screen cap some random porn he was watching?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Is that a famous movie, or did Elon just screen cap some random porn he was watching?

does it matter? I was thinking is was an ad for world hunger. That poor thing could break in half, with the proper technique. Should be a five guys commercial.

 

[twenty02]

does it matter? I was thinking is was an ad for world hunger. That poor thing could break in half, with the proper technique. Should be a five guys commercial.

This you Joe?

 

[snarlcakes]

 

[snarlcakes]

 

[hookyIU1990]

Pretty damn amazing. Hope they can keep it rolling long enough to truly do good.

 

[dbmhoosier]

🤩

 

[hookyIU1990]

🤩

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Well shit...

 

[snarlcakes]

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Brazil has had enough

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

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I'll get this out before "The View"
Fvckin Trump caused this winning crap !! He's a danger to OUR Democrazy !! ..... (side note, I may need to coin that, that's acctually pretty good!)

 

[hookyIU1990]

I'll get this out before "The View"
Fvckin Trump caused this winning crap !! He's a danger to OUR Democrazy !! ..... (side note, I may need to coin that, that's acctually pretty good!)

Trump has no bearing or association with anything in that tweet, dude.

Sorry to be "that guy".

 

[DANC]

Trump has no bearing or association with anything in that tweet, dude.

Sorry to be "that guy".

What a buzzkill

 

[twenty02]

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Wise words, but that's the easy part. Russia (and other nations) privatized industries too... But only by creating oligarchs. There is more than building a true free market economy than simple privatization. You have to incorporate antitrust and a robust and fair civil justice system.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Wise words, but that's the easy part. Russia (and other nations) privatized industries too... But only by creating oligarchs. There is more than building a true free market economy than simple privatization. You have to incorporate antitrust and a robust and fair civil justice system.

And you have to relinquish government control and influence. I'm no expert, but the Russian attempted privatization during the 90s was quite flawed and by the GFC, many of the assets were still state-sponsored or backed (even if, in a minority setting).

It felt very much like the Chinese method of privatization - you can own shares and income streams for interests, but the government is going to maintain a stake and influence corporate direction.

 

[twenty02]

And you have to relinquish government control and influence. I'm no expert, but the Russian attempted privatization during the 90s was quite flawed and by the GFC, many of the assets were still state-sponsored or backed (even if, in a minority setting).

It felt very much like the Chinese method of privatization - you can own shares and income streams for interests, but the government is going to maintain a stake and influence corporate direction.

True reform will come with a lot of pain. I'm doubtful modern society is capable of seeing it through in Argentina.

 

[BradStevens]

True reform will come with a lot of pain. I'm doubtful modern society is capable of seeing it through in Argentina.

Can you expand on that second sentence? Are you saying you don't think modern societies have the grit/patience/whatever to deal with a lot of pain in a change like Milei wants to try?

 

[twenty02]

Can you expand on that second sentence? Are you saying you don't think modern societies have the grit/patience/whatever to deal with a lot of pain in a change like Milei wants to try?

Correct. Any serious austerity like he is attempting is going to mean a lot of immediate pain for a country that is already at like 40% poverty. It will take a significant amount of political capital... Not something I'm sure he has. Sounds like he was kind of an obscure political figure.

 

[DANC]

Correct. Any serious austerity like he is attempting is going to mean a lot of immediate pain for a country that is already at like 40% poverty. It will take a significant amount of political capital... Not something I'm sure he has. Sounds like he was kind of an obscure political figure.

What does a country that poor have to lose?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Correct. Any serious austerity like he is attempting is going to mean a lot of immediate pain for a country that is already at like 40% poverty. It will take a significant amount of political capital... Not something I'm sure he has. Sounds like he was kind of an obscure political figure.

So why do it, then? What's the expected long term gain that justifies the pain?

 

[DANC]

So why do it, then? What's the expected long term gain that justifies the pain?

Not having so many living in poverty?

If the country's in that bad a shape, why NOT try it?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

So why do it, then? What's the expected long term gain that justifies the pain?

Isn’t it rather obvious? Argentina can come out the other side as capitalist economy, which is good for Argentinians. Like most countries, nobody wants to make the short term sacrifice for the long term benefit

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Isn’t it rather obvious? Argentina can come out the other side as capitalist economy, which is good for Argentinians. Like most countries, nobody wants to make the short term sacrifice for the long term benefit

It's not obvious to me. I don't know much about Argentina's economy, so I'm curious what these reforms are supposed to accomplish.

 

[hookyIU1990]

It's not obvious to me. I don't know much about Argentina's economy, so I'm curious what these reforms are supposed to accomplish.

Inflation was through the roof.

Avg Real GDP of 0.3% over the last decade

Unemployment avg'd over 8% from 2012-2022

Interest rates headed to the moon.

Peso down 97% in value compared to the USD

Generally an economic crap show.

Reforms are meant to reverse all of that and get the country back on it's feet.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

The issue is not that Argentina is poor. Argentina has great natural resources and relatively stable society.
Just like the US, Argentine government has been incredibly corrupt for many years, especially the Socialists who grew the size and reach of their government while rewarding the loyalists.
Milei is just smart and counter culture enough to rally the populists and succeed in turning the economy around.

If he lives.....

 

[BradStevens]

What does a country that poor have to lose?

Political stability. More poverty leading to a Marxist revolution or brutal dictatorship, either of which might lead to deaths and imprisonment?

I'm not saying they shouldn't try a more capitalist approach. I'm just saying they have quite a bit more to hit rock bottom (see Venezuela).

 

[Noodle]

The love of his life probably just married someone else

The love of his life is his mom - who he keeps in a chair in the attic.