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Argentina elects "far-right" libertarian--will they turn it around?



Myth one: it is not “right-wing,” contrary to the New York Times, the Guardian, and a thousand other venues. The “right” in Prussia was for the unity of church, state, and business. The “right” in France was for the divine right of the monarchy to rule. The “right” in America is all over the place in U.S. history but hardly consistent for liberty as a first principle of socio-political life. The notion of “anarcho-capitalism” is outside the left-right binary.

Myth two: the “anarcho” part has nothing to do with Antifa or chaos. The use of the term anarchism here means only the abolition of the state and its replacement with property relationships, voluntary action, private law, and contract enforcement as provided by free enterprise. It does not mean lawless; it means law as an extension of human volition and social evolution rather than imposition from above. Order is the daughter of liberty, not the mother, said Proudhon, and anarcho-capitalists would agree.

Myth three: not everyone who proclaims himself to be an “anarcho-capitalist” speaks for the school of thought, not by a long shot. The designation represents a broad ideal with thousands of iterative applications and a huge diversity of views within, same as any other ideological camp. I’m aware of some who favored COVID lockdowns and shot mandates, and others who keep finding ways to justify war and mass redistribution schemes, for example. Thus should Milei not be held responsible for every cockamamie thing ever said or written by a self-described adherent.

The term originates in the work of American economist (and my beloved mentor) Murray Rothbard, who was strongly influenced in his libertarianism by novelist Ayn Rand in the 1950s. (One of Milei’s dogs is named Murray.) But as Rothbard examined Rand’s work closely, he began to develop doubts about the institution Rand insisted was necessary and essential, namely the state itself. If we are to have property rights, why is the state alone permitted to violate them? If we are to have self-ownership, why is the state the only institution allowed to trample on people via conscription, segregation, and otherwise? If we seek peace, why do we want a state to wage war? And so on.

In Rothbard’s view, a consistent rule in society prohibiting aggression against person and property would have to apply also to the state itself, which has been historically the most socially damaging violator of human rights that there is. We tolerate states to defend our rights only to find out that the state is the main threat to our rights. This way of thinking also observes that no one has ever come up with a technology or system that has successfully restrained the state once it is created. (Highly recommended for deeper understanding: Rothbard’s “Anatomy of the State,” a free download.)


Many anarchists of the socialist left have made similar observations but Rothbard’s spin was one of an analytical prediction concerning what would take the place of the state in its absence. Rothbard said that a society without a state would not be a community governed by perfect sharing of resources and egalitarian sameness, much less some magical elevation beyond human nature, as the left-utopians said. Rather, it would be one of ownership, commerce, the division of labor, investment, private courts, stock markets, private ownership of capital, and all the rest. In other words, a free economy would thrive more than ever without the state, and we would see an ordered liberty brought to its highest possible level of realization.
 
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History is repeating itself at an accelerated rate. Bring on the battles of the dictators and nationalism.
 
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Rather, it would be one of ownership, commerce, the division of labor, investment, private courts, stock markets, private ownership of capital, and all the rest. In other words, a free economy would thrive more than ever without the state, and we would see an ordered liberty brought to its highest possible level of realization.

What are "private courts" and how would they work?
 
What are "private courts" and how would they work?
Good question. I’m not sure. The other examples make sense to me or seem plausible. However, I have no clue how private courts would operate (or how it would be different from what we have currently). I haven’t read anything by Rothbard.
 
Good question. I’m not sure. The other examples make sense to me or seem plausible. However, I have no clue how private courts would operate (or how it would be different from what we have currently). I haven’t read anything by Rothbard.

I can only imagine they would be akin to arbitration agreements, but that begs the question as to who enforces the arbitrator's findings.
 
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I can only imagine they would be akin to arbitration agreements, but that begs the question as to who enforces the arbitrator's findings.
Why the the private enforcement mechanism that you contract with, of course.


Rothbard's views, along with Rand's and the author of that essay, are as out of touch with the way human beings really are, really act, and have developed as communism (not socialism, whose tenants are in many functioning nations today; full-blooded communism).

One of the most obvious flaws in the thinking linked by snarlcakes is that order flows from liberty, not the other way around. If that were the case, we would expect the least order in the least free systems. Do we really think that's the case? Do we look at Soviet era Russia, China under Mao, Germany under the Nazi regime, or the State in Orwell's 1984 and think they needed more order?

I think Argentina will benefit from transitioning certain institutions, slowly, from public to private ownership and control. But if Milei tries to actually institute anarcho-capitalism, that kind of radical move will be disastrous. And such a move wouldn't be conservative, in the least, if conservative means "conserving long standing political institutions."
 
What are "private courts" and how would they work?
Maybe like the FISA courts? Totally transparent with "our" best interest in mind, knowing that there are some things that the populace just isn't ready to know about, that we do. Maybe like that? Just a guess.
 
Maybe like the FISA courts? Totally transparent with "our" best interest in mind, knowing that there are some things that the populace just isn't ready to know about, that we do. Maybe like that? Just a guess.

I think you mean "opaque", not transparent.

Don't get me started on FISA. I've long claimed that whole setup was an abomination. Secret judges presiding over secret courts in secret. It would make the Stasi proud. Snowden was right.
 
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I think you mean "opaque", not transparent.

Don't get me started on FISA. I've long claimed that whole setup was an abomination. Secret judges presiding over secret courts in secret. It would make the Stasi proud. Snowden was right.
I remember being a stupid youngster, not to be confused with an old drunk stupid.... Thinking, OMG this couldn't possible be a good idea, I hate this!

Well, here we are. They take power one inch at a time. and we just let it happen.
 
It was all about the War on Terror. If you questioned it you were a traitor.
I knew that at the time and I was ok being that kind of traitor. That policy was terrible, uniparty BS and I loudly said so at the time. One of the pieces that made me not support GWB. Total crap.
 
Why the the private enforcement mechanism that you contract with, of course.


Rothbard's views, along with Rand's and the author of that essay, are as out of touch with the way human beings really are, really act, and have developed as communism (not socialism, whose tenants are in many functioning nations today; full-blooded communism).

One of the most obvious flaws in the thinking linked by snarlcakes is that order flows from liberty, not the other way around. If that were the case, we would expect the least order in the least free systems. Do we really think that's the case? Do we look at Soviet era Russia, China under Mao, Germany under the Nazi regime, or the State in Orwell's 1984 and think they needed more order?
Sorry, I have to push back on those societies being orderly. The Nazi’s lasted for 2ish decades and caused more disruption than almost any society ever created. Mao was in control for fewer than 30 years and there was plenty of chaos throughout his reign. I think it comes down to how one defines order. Once you start adding timelines to those societies, they become extremely disorderly in my opinion.
 
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Sorry, I have to push back on those societies being orderly. The Nazi’s lasted for 2ish decades and caused more disruption than almost any society ever created. Mao was in control for fewer than 30 years and there was plenty of chaos throughout his reign. I think it comes down to how one defines order. Once you start adding timelines to those societies, they become extremely disorderly in my opinion.
Getting rid of state-sponsored police, courts, and law is just never going to happen.

Not even Bitcoin can make that work.
 
Getting rid of state-sponsored police, courts, and law is just never going to happen.

Not even Bitcoin can make that work.
I’m fine with just cutting government spending and balance budgets. I like libertarians, but I don’t give a shit if the government fund roads. I just don’t want the government bankrupting the country or causing inflation. If I was King for a day I’d implement an amendment to limiting government spending and debt. And be done with it.
 
Putzing around online this afternoon and reading some interesting stuff. I could probably put this in a couple of threads.


elc94He.jpg
 
Putzing around online this afternoon and reading some interesting stuff. I could probably put this in a couple of threads.


elc94He.jpg
Time line is too short … Reagan said the Democrats left him decades ago.
When was the last time anyone saw a law and order Democrat.
 
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That's a really dumb meme...
It’s really not. The nature of progressivism is that it never stops. There’s a constant need for “progress”. So they will take existing societal structures that are functioning perfectly well and in their all knowing wisdom try and make them function even better.

Problem being that there is no such thing as a perfect governmental structure or even societal structure. Perfection is a fools errand.

Everything the government does takes from one to give to another. It deprives people of the fruits of their own labor which used to be called slavery.

The progressive mindset can best be described as a “magic bullet” mentality. Extremely naive. I see it in you. Clown.
 
It’s really not. The nature of progressivism is that it never stops. There’s a constant need for “progress”. So they will take existing societal structures that are functioning perfectly well and in their all knowing wisdom try and make them function even better.

Problem being that there is no such thing as a perfect governmental structure or even societal structure. Perfection is a fools errand.

Everything the government does takes from one to give to another. It deprives people of the fruits of their own labor which used to be called slavery.

The progressive mindset can best be described as a “magic bullet” mentality. Extremely naive. I see it in you. Clown.
You are giving them way too much credit. There is only one common denominator for those who protest in favor of LBGT, feminism and Palestinians/ Hamas, who stop a parade enjoyed by millions, who destroy art masterpieces, who glue themselves to roads an buildings, who deface the White House grounds and other national monuments, and who disrupt the lives of not only public servants but also ordinary citizens trying to go about their lives, and it ain’t any laudable cause. No the common denominator is that these people have miserable unaccomplished lives, either real or imagined, they have no talent or abilities, and the only way they can be noticed is to be social misfits aka assholes.
 
You are giving them way too much credit. There is only one common denominator for those who protest in favor of LBGT, feminism and Palestinians/ Hamas, who stop a parade enjoyed by millions, who destroy art masterpieces, who glue themselves to roads an buildings, who deface the White House grounds and other national monuments, and who disrupt the lives of not only public servants but also ordinary citizens trying to go about their lives, and it ain’t any laudable cause. No the common denominator is that these people have miserable unaccomplished lives, either real or imagined, they have no talent or abilities, and the only way they can be noticed is to be social misfits aka assholes.
I’m not so sure. I’m embarrassed to say that probably the majority of my social circle put a black square on their Instagram when George Floyd died. They’re not ignorant leftists. They probably even skew fiscally Conservative and most have successful careers and personal lives.

They just don’t want to offend or be tagged with some viscious label. You can’t give shit leftists an inch.
 
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You are giving them way too much credit. There is only one common denominator for those who protest in favor of LBGT, feminism and Palestinians/ Hamas, who stop a parade enjoyed by millions, who destroy art masterpieces, who glue themselves to roads an buildings, who deface the White House grounds and other national monuments, and who disrupt the lives of not only public servants but also ordinary citizens trying to go about their lives, and it ain’t any laudable cause. No the common denominator is that these people have miserable unaccomplished lives, either real or imagined, they have no talent or abilities, and the only way they can be noticed is to be social misfits aka assholes.
They need to follow Jordan Petersons 12 rules for life.

You are exactly right. These dirtbags have shitty lives and have to latch on to some cause so they can distract from their shitty existence.
 
Really liking this guy

Guess what other political philosophy advocated for/foresaw the elimination of the State: communism.


It's utopian thinking, untethered to the realities of human nature and history.

I hope Argentina has some backstops and checks on Milei's power. Again, Argentina needs to move in the direction Milei is signaling, but I don't think it works if they go all the way.
 
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Guess what other political philosophy advocated for/foresaw the elimination of the State: communism.


It's utopian thinking, untethered to the realities of human nature and history.

I hope Argentina has some backstops and checks on Milei's power. Again, Argentina needs to move in the direction Milei is signaling, but I don't think it works if they go all the way.
In what socialist or communist state has the government shrank, let alone withered away?

I'm curious to see what happens in Argentina. He has a near term goal of reducing the state to a justice system and a security force. I find that admirable and something akin to what the US was founded upon.

Honestly, I think he's dead within 36 months if he makes progress.
 
In what socialist or communist state has the government shrank, let alone withered away?

I'm curious to see what happens in Argentina. He has a near term goal of reducing the state to a justice system and a security force. I find that admirable and something akin to what the US was founded upon.

Honestly, I think he's dead within 36 months if he makes progress.
The U.S. was founded on a lot more than that.

Re communism, that was the end goal. Just like what Milei is saying. He thinks that once you change the society enough, the need for the State will disappear.
 
The U.S. was founded on a lot more than that.

Re communism, that was the end goal. Just like what Milei is saying. He thinks that once you change the society enough, the need for the State will disappear.
Sure, that's why I said it was akin to what we were founded on. Based on the role of a central government, the founders were minarchists (Classical Liberals if you prefer). The idea being that the federal government would be much less powerful and far-reaching than it is today. The argument at the time between the feds and anti-feds was basically how much the federal gov't was limited in scope and power while still limiting the possible damage of "the factions".
 
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