another elementary school shooting

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Is that what was holding them back?

I don’t think we have any idea. I’m just saying - putting small people (especially females) into a SWAT team is not sensible. What value do they bring to a team that needs to literally knock shit down and destroy targets? What if one of the bigger guys is hit? Can one of the small ones drag him out?

It’s probably not a work thing - it’s probably resources being a limiting factor. But if your SWAT team sucks - don’t have one and don’t wait for them to show to go in. Go the **** in. Do your job.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Is that what was holding them back?

To busy with crowd control.

Unfortunately, thats not a joke.

 

[IUclover]

I don’t think we have any idea. I’m just saying - putting small people (especially females) into a SWAT team is not sensible. What value do they bring to a team that needs to literally knock shit down and destroy targets? What if one of the bigger guys is hit? Can one of the small ones drag him out?

It’s probably not a work thing - it’s probably resources being a limiting factor. But if your SWAT team sucks - don’t have one and don’t wait for them to show to go in. Go the **** in. Do your job.

Maybe the dudes are bigger pu**ies in some situations. Reminds me of a pic I saw of one group of people. They all look the same with little backbone.

 

[IUclover]

Wow. I’ll try to link more tomorrow but so much wrong happened in this terrible situation that hasn’t already been posted.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I don’t think we have any idea. I’m just saying - putting small people (especially females) into a SWAT team is not sensible. What value do they bring to a team that needs to literally knock shit down and destroy targets? What if one of the bigger guys is hit? Can one of the small ones drag him out?

It’s probably not a work thing - it’s probably resources being a limiting factor. But if your SWAT team sucks - don’t have one and don’t wait for them to show to go in. Go the **** in. Do your job.

DPS spokesman: Police 'could've been shot' and decided to 'contain the gunman' with his victims

hotair.com

They took "casualties" and decided to write off the kids already stuck with him. Including at least 1 girl who laid there for an hour bleeding out.

They should be told to resign or be fired. The directive on this stuff has been clear since Columbine and it was highlighted in Broward. You go and get the bad guy. Period. They chickened out. Simple as that.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Small towns don’t have many - if any - guys with a SWAT mentality, and the typical small town cops/sheriffs aren’t going to have the expertise to successfully end this kind of event.

Our society produces sick, evil people, and they do what they want until shot dead.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Maybe the dudes are bigger pu**ies in some situations. Reminds me of a pic I saw of one group of people. They all look the same with little backbone.

What? Are you just making shit up because you desperately want a scenario where a woman saves the day?

 

[stollcpa]

Small towns don’t have many - if any - guys with a SWAT mentality, and the typical small town cops/sheriffs aren’t going to have the expertise to successfully end this kind of event.

Our society produces sick, evil people, and they do what they want until shot dead.

And we can make all the gun laws we want and it will make very little difference.

 

[IUclover]

What? Are you just making shit up because you desperately want a scenario where a woman saves the day?

I’m not sure how the conversation turned to smaller people not helping in this specific event.

Either way, I’ll agree they were cowards and the more I’m hearing is cowards covering up even more than what has been reported.

 

[DANC]

What numbers? You said that you wanted a guard at every door. It is an assumption that every school has 12 doors, but I can think of at least 12 exterior doors on the elementary school two blocks away from me. Frankly, that number is probably conservative when talking about some of the high schools I've seen in Texas.

So:
12 doors
1 security guard per door.
250,000 schools in the US
$50,000 a year salary for a security guard (that part is also certainly debatable, but I looked up security guard salaries for Ohio - 38,000 and California - 66,000, so 50K is probably an OK average guess).

12 X 250,000 x 50,000 = 150 billion.

I admit that this is an estimate, but they are reasonable numbers based upon the criteria that you set. They are not completely made up.

To my recollection, this is the fourth major mass shooting at a school (This one, Columbine, Parkland, Sandy Hook). Paul would think it is wasteful spending to drop 100+ billion dollars on paying for security guards at every school when this is, although horribly tragic, something that occurs extremely rarely. The guy literally proposed cutting the Department of Education of 83% of its funding in 2011. You think he would even remotely consider doubling it instead? I just don't see it.

You are using made up numbers and some imaginary argument for what Paul would do.

I think you're wrong on both counts and just using this as a way to make a political statement about Paul.

You'd do better to quit wasting your time on made-up scenarios.

 

[DANC]

I have a buddy who is retired from the military who teaches math in high school. He was special forces and a combat veteran. I’m sure he’d be the perfect kind of teacher to be armed and ready. I’m sure there are other people teaching with similar sorts of skills or experience. Why not arm them?

Those types for sure. But there aren't many of them - not enough, at least.

Having firearms in the classroom is just a bad idea on many levels Sure, if someone is ex-military and stable enough, he might be given permission to have a weapon, but overall, giving firearms to teachers would increase the chances of school shootings.

 

[DANC]

If this is even remotely true, multiple heads will roll in that police department.

I read the same thing.

Just unbelievable to have people call out when the shooter is still operating. Unfathomable.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Maybe the dudes are bigger pu**ies in some situations. Reminds me of a pic I saw of one group of people. They all look the same with little backbone.

Yep I have a feelings those mamas would have been in that building in a flash. Like the mom who was handcuffed, convinced them to let her go, snuck in the building and got her child out.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

🙄 Most if all don’t act like nut jobs. Remember we can no longer discriminate. I see lots of people that I think are nut jobs. That doesn’t mean they are.

Actually doesn't it mean they are time selective nut jobs? When it requires to be judged as normal, they can pull it off ( a conscious decision) and when they want to be a nut job they flip the switch... Impossible to 100% detect.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Another question about timeline. After he shot his grandmother and wrecked his car, he fired at two people across the street from school. They have video of him standing outside the building for 10 minutes. Why wasn’t school on immediate lockdown? We get notices of any crime in area and building goes lockdown, class doors locked, blinds down, etc. Seems like plenty of time to do that.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Gun manufacturer ran some pretty disgusting ads with a toddler holding an assault rifle. They are toast.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Gun manufacturer ran some pretty disgusting ads with a toddler holding an assault rifle. They are toast.

I saw that. A great deal of their advertising wraps in the bible. Very disturbing but people eat it up.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I saw that. A great deal if their advertising wraps in the bible. Very disturbing but people eat it up.

Targeting kids with those types of weapons is what will get them.

 

[larsIU]

Another question about timeline. After he shot his grandmother and wrecked his car, he fired at two people across the street from school. They have video of him standing outside the building for 10 minutes. Why wasn’t school on immediate lockdown? We get notices of any crime in area and building goes lockdown, class doors locked, blinds down, etc. Seems like plenty of time to do that.

I read he was firing outside the building for up to 12 minutes.

 

[stollcpa]

I hesitated and then thought “what the heck”. I can take the wrath today.

 

[bawlmer]

And we can make all the gun laws we want and it will make very little difference.

Disagree. The firepower he had was at the center of this. He was fascinated by it, and asked a stranger on Facebook to share his pictures of it afterwards. How likely is it the punk even goes into the school without his assault rifle and backpack of ammo?

He loved it so much he had to see what it could do to real flesh and bone. And it lived up to his horrid fantasies. Finally, he held the local police department at bay for an hour because of the weaponry he had.

Our laws should focus on whether civilians need access to that kind of firepower.

 

[outside shooter]

I hesitated and then thought “what the heck”. I can take the wrath today.

No wrath needed. Nobody is claiming that sensible gun laws are the panacea that will reduce shootings to zero and that the lack of them is the one and only "cause" of mass shootings.

If you admit that it is a "contributing cause", which apparently you do, then why not seek to eliminate that contribution?

If I am poor, it might be for many contributing reasons: my rent is too high, my income is too low, I eat out too much, I take fancy vacations, etc. All of them are contributing factors. Do I throw up my hands and say that since no single one of those things is the only reason that I am poor, that I should therefore not address ANY of them?

 

[stollcpa]

No wrath needed. Nobody is claiming that sensible gun laws are the panacea that will reduce shootings to zero and that the lack of them is the one and only "cause" of mass shootings.

If you admit that it is a "contributing cause", which apparently you do, then why not seek to eliminate that contribution?

If I am poor, it might be for many contributing reasons: my rent is too high, my income is too low, I eat out too much, I take fancy vacations, etc. All of them are contributing factors. Do I throw up my hands and say that since no single one of those things is the only reason that I am poor, that I should therefore not address ANY of them?

I have no problem with restricting access to some guns. But I strongly believe these mass shootings are much more than guns. BTW I fail at several things mentioned in the Twitter Thread.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I hesitated and then thought “what the heck”. I can take the wrath today.

View embedded media

So what is the root cause?

Gun laws cannot end this, but why do we want to make it easy for someone who decides to commit mass murder to get the best possible guns quickly?

On occasion we read about people being arrested because they tried to hire a hitman and called cop posing as a hitman. If someone had to go to Craig's List to buy one of these guns there is always a chance they will make a mistake and get arrested before.

 

[stollcpa]

So what is the root cause?

Gun laws cannot end this, but why do we want to make it easy for someone who decides to commit mass murder to get the best possible guns quickly?

On occasion we read about people being arrested because they tried to hire a hitman and called cop posing as a hitman. If someone had to go to Craig's List to buy one of these guns there is always a chance they will make a mistake and get arrested before.

If you read the entire thread there’s many causes. Not just the guns.

The societal norms are every thing goes. So why not killing innocent people?

I own a small handgun that I think I’ve only had out of the box 2/3 times to get lessons on how to use.

Sensible gun control is fine with me. This kid should not have been able to buy the guns he used.

The kid was nuts. Guns or no guns who knows how he would have killed if that’s what he was hellbent in doing.

 

[outside shooter]

The kid was nuts. Guns or no guns who knows how he would have killed if that’s what he was hellbent in doing.

We all know that you can kill a lot of people with fertilizer and diesel fuel. But that takes some effort, planning, and even to some extent some intelligence. For every 100 nutjobs who intend to mow down a room of people with an AR-15, most of them are probably capable of doing it. Probably one in 100 would be both capable of building the fertizer bomb or as satisfied/turned on enough by the thought of pulling it off to go ahead with it.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

If you read the entire thread there’s many causes. Not just the guns.

The societal norms are every thing goes. So why not killing innocent people?

I own a small handgun that I think I’ve only had out of the box 2/3 times to get lessons on how to use.

Sensible gun control is fine with me. This kid should not have been able to buy the guns he used.

The kid was nuts. Guns or no guns who knows how he would have killed if that’s what he was hellbent in doing.

I was just reading a book that made some interesting points. Here is a Wiki excerpt on someone

He went to live with his father, who had bought a 50-acre (20 ha) farm the year before in Warrensville, Ohio.[15][16] He did little to assist in running the farm and was constantly at odds with his stepmother and with his family's Catholic beliefs. It was later said that throughout his life he had never shown any interest in friendship or romantic relationships, and was bullied during his childhood.[17]​

​

He became a recluse.​

Doesn't that sound familiar to many of the cases we see today? That was the man who shot McKinley in 1901, Leon Czolgoz.
The book that discussed him was The Proud Tower by Barbara Tuchman. Tuchman suggests that in the 1890s to early 1900s there were many assassinations and assassination attempts of politicians, religious leaders, and wealthy elites across the world. It was thought at the time that there was an international conspiracy of anarchists, of course, such conspiracies were almost never found.

But there was one. A man from Paterson, NJ, went to Italy and assassinated the Italian President Umberto. A local group in Paterson MAY have drawn lots to determine who would do this, but the group did come up with the idea. A photograph was taken of him literally during his arrest. According to Tuchman, Czolgoz carried that photo and news article with him and looked/read them often. A copycat, something I think we are seeing today in the US.

Yes, shooting kids is even worse than bombing an opera or parliament (both were done) or shootings of individuals. But I think what we are seeing today is very much the same as what happened then. Those that are disaffected are copying one another in some belief that they are either righting a wrong or perhaps lighting a fuse or somehow feel like they are powerful. It isn't new. It isn't necessarily society dissolving more than it was in 1900.

 

[Noodle]

I saw that. A great deal of their advertising wraps in the bible. Very disturbing but people eat it up.

Apparently the manufacturer also sells guns to the U.S. and British military. One common sense step may be to put an end to that, immediately. As a interesting side note, I did a Google search for articles about Daniel Defense's military contracts. Our firm's IT security system blocked me from accessing those because of the subject matter (weapons sales). Second link below goes to one of the blocked articles.

Maker of rifle used by Texas gunman draws fury for ‘incendiary’ ads

Georgia-based firearm maker Daniel Defense is facing heavy scrutiny in the wake of Tuesday’s mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Texas.

www.nbcnews.com

Daniel Defense Scores $9 Million Military Barrel Contract :: Guns.com

The Pentagon announced Wednesday that Georgia-based Daniel Defense has won a large contract issued through the Naval Surface Warfare Center.

www.guns.com

 

[larsIU]

Apparently the manufacturer also sells guns to the U.S. and British military. One common sense step may be to put an end to that, immediately. As a interesting side note, I did a Google search for articles about Daniel Defense's military contracts. Our firm's IT security system blocked me from accessing those because of the subject matter (weapons sales). Second link below goes to one of the blocked articles.

Maker of rifle used by Texas gunman draws fury for ‘incendiary’ ads

Georgia-based firearm maker Daniel Defense is facing heavy scrutiny in the wake of Tuesday’s mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Texas.

www.nbcnews.com

Daniel Defense Scores $9 Million Military Barrel Contract :: Guns.com

The Pentagon announced Wednesday that Georgia-based Daniel Defense has won a large contract issued through the Naval Surface Warfare Center.

www.guns.com

That ad with the kid is nucking futs.

We're so far gone at this point I don't know how we get back. How can anybody look at that add, wrapped up in scripture, and think anything positively about that company?

 

[zeke4ahs]

I fully admit I don’t know much about guns and have little interest in learning. Starting to do a little research about the assault weapons ban passed in 1994 and let lapse in 2003. Statistics that I have seen appear to show that mass shootings did go down then and have grown at an alarming rate since. Why was it not renewed?

 

[outside shooter]

I fully admit I don’t know much about guns and have little interest in learning. Starting to do a little research about the assault weapons ban passed in 1994 and let lapse in 2003. Statistics that I have seen appear to show that mass shootings did go down then and have grown at an alarming rate since. Why was it not renewed?

The U.S. Once Had A Ban On Assault Weapons — Why Did It Expire?

To secure enough votes in 1994, the ban's sponsors in Congress accepted a "sunset provision" — meaning it would last 10 years but need to be reauthorized. Politics in the U.S. changed.

www.npr.org

The GOP had just increased its numbers in both chambers in the midterm elections of 2002, a political season dominated by anxiety after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Feinstein and others made numerous efforts to restore the ban that year and over the next several years. When Barack Obama was elected president in 2008 he made renewing the ban part of his agenda. Efforts were mounted again after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in December 2012, but none bore fruit.

The attempt to reinstate the ban after Sandy Hook attracted 12 fewer votes in the Senate than Feinstein had mustered in an attempt to renew the ban in 2004.

--
The reasons why are varied, but it is likely that NRA money played a huge role. GOP senators made promises that they kept, promises that kept campaign coffers (if not personal bank accounts) filled up.

 

[DANC]

We all know that you can kill a lot of people with fertilizer and diesel fuel. But that takes some effort, planning, and even to some extent some intelligence. For every 100 nutjobs who intend to mow down a room of people with an AR-15, most of them are probably capable of doing it. Probably one in 100 would be both capable of building the fertizer bomb or as satisfied/turned on enough by the thought of pulling it off to go ahead with it.

Yeah, and 1 Oklahoma City killed as many as 15 Uvaldes.

It's clear that, as soon as guns aren't available, these walking suicides will find some other way to take others out with them and make a name for themselves.

 

[larsIU]

Yeah, and 1 Oklahoma City killed as many as 15 Uvaldes.

It's clear that, as soon as guns aren't available, these walking suicides will find some other way to take others out with them and make a name for themselves.

Yeah, but a lot of these morons will blow themselves up long before they get to a building. McVeigh was singularly focused, far moreso than these spree shooters. Even the Las Vegas shooter had a plan.

The school shooters seem a bit different breed.

 

[Jg48]

Yeah, and 1 Oklahoma City killed as many as 15 Uvaldes.

It's clear that, as soon as guns aren't available, these walking suicides will find some other way to take others out with them and make a name for themselves.

Then make them find another way. Then, deal with that.

 

[twenty02]

Yeah, and 1 Oklahoma City killed as many as 15 Uvaldes.

It's clear that, as soon as guns aren't available, these walking suicides will find some other way to take others out with them and make a name for themselves.

Nonsense. The UK banned guns after their own school shooting decades ago. They haven't had one since.... and now have one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.

We do nothing and are shocked when the same shit keeps happening

 

[outside shooter]

There will always be a John Wilkes Booth or a Mark David Chapman or even a Timothy McVeigh. No laws are going to eliminate gun deaths or other murders, even mass murders, and that's a fact.

How that fact gets conflated to the argument that we then ought to do nothing to REDUCE this awful epidemic of mass murder is... well... mystifying.

 

[mcmurtry66]

That ad with the kid is nucking futs.

We're so far gone at this point I don't know how we get back. How can anybody look at that add, wrapped up in scripture, and think anything positively about that company?

They will pay for that ad

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yeah, but a lot of these morons will blow themselves up long before they get to a building. McVeigh was singularly focused, far moreso than these spree shooters. Even the Las Vegas shooter had a plan.

The school shooters seem a bit different breed.

I think 70 percent are 18 and under

 

[DANC]

Nonsense. The UK banned guns after their own school shooting decades ago. They haven't had one since.... and now have one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.

We do nothing and are shocked when the same shit keeps happening

You realize the UK doesn't have the same civil rights we do, don't you?

I don't want to be the UK - we fought a war to get rid of their yoke.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I think 70 percent are 18 and under

We absolutely have to raise the min age.