another elementary school shooting

[SqueakyClean]

I think 20 dead, 15 dead, 10 dead, or 4 dead are ALL major.

I don't disagree, any shooting at a school is major.

But the kind of protection that we are theorizing about here likely would not have made a difference in about 80% of that list. Those are usually cases of kids sneaking a handgun into the school and having a specific agenda (ie. specific target) or possibly a heat-of-the-moment altercation.

We are talking about someone walking through the door with an assault rifle to kill as many people as possible before they die.

In the grand scheme of things, there isn't much difference. Both are a tragedy. But the efforts that we are talking about to limit a nutjob from getting into the school while class is in session only applies to a fairly specific situation, and there have really only been about 4 of those.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Look at it like this. Say your house catches on fire. Instead of the fire department showing up, we have the local Burger King employees come. Sure they have been “trained” but firefighting is not what they do, they make fast food. You will be asking them to walk into a blazing home to save your child. Does this sound like a great idea or incredibly stupid?

Every Sailor on a ship is trained in fire fighting. Just saying.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I have a buddy who is retired from the military who teaches math in high school. He was special forces and a combat veteran. I’m sure he’d be the perfect kind of teacher to be armed and ready. I’m sure there are other people teaching with similar sorts of skills or experience. Why not arm them?

As I said I’m sure a few might. As I also said, there was a case of a security guard leaving his gun in the bathroom. Can’t imagine there are actually very many trained military veterans teaching but I suppose if they want to be armed and can keep their weapon in a safe place that’s fine.

 

[outside shooter]

I have a buddy who is retired from the military who teaches math in high school. He was special forces and a combat veteran. I’m sure he’d be the perfect kind of teacher to be armed and ready. I’m sure there are other people teaching with similar sorts of skills or experience. Why not arm them?

That might be great, but how many people like that would there be, on average, per school district? For the 250,000 schools in the USA?

 

[IUCrazy2]

View embedded media

Welcome to nginx

archive.ph

They were too busy putting Mom's in cuffs and tasing parents trying to retrieve their kids from a bus outside. The Mom in cuffs drove 40 ****ing miles from her job, got cuffed, convinced them to let her out, snuck into the school, and rescued her own children.

Infuriating is not enough to describe this.

 

[Stuffshot]

The argument about social workers being used more in certain situations rose specifically out of some cases where police were called to scenes with a mentally disturbed person (teens, even), and in short order they had gunned him/her down. We're talking unarmed but erratic behaving individuals that would not follow orders from cops such as "put your hands over your head". One case was in Chicago IIRC.

Social workers with mediation/deescalation experience have been shown to be effective in such situations, and are also very effective in preventing violence in domestic violence situations, which of course are EXTREMELY common calls for police.

This may be a little off topic from your post, but I see two things wrong with all these other posts suggesting that more reliance on social workers and mental health programs might work miracle solutions to mass shootings,

1. We've all seen the opposition to even mild increases in restrictions on guns because of "my rights." Can you imagine the uproar when parents find out that some social worker or school counselor or psychiatrist has decided their 17-year-old son needs to be confined for 72-hour observation because (1) he is obsessed with guns, (2) something is wrong with him, (3) he is anti-social and acting strangely, (4) he is sending and posting messages and pictures about guns and shooting people, (5) his classmates are afraid of him, etc.?

I am skeptical that the families of potential mass shooters will refrain from claiming "my son's rights" when presented with the realities of the mental health approach currently being suggested.

2. About an hour ago, I heard Sean Hannity's radio holiday replacement (don't know his name) say over and over again that he believed many past mass shooters were already undergoing mental health treatment before their mass shootings and that he thought those mental health workers should be held "accountable" because they either had "released" the shooters or had not reported those shooters to authorities. (Interestingly, I did not hear him say he thought any parents of a shooter should be held "accountable" for any reason.)

So, realistically, how many potential social or mental health workers are going to sign on for such duties if they would be held "accountable" if their patients prove to be wackos?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

In 30 minutes if law enforcement was warned they could at least start heading to the school if he threatened it.

I have no idea what’s true but it sounds like law enforcement were slow to respond and then stood around outside the building for a period of time.

I am sure truth will come out.

Gunman's final 90 minutes fuel questions about police delays

Texas authorities say the gunman who massacred 21 people at an elementary school was in the building for over an hour before he was killed by law enforcement officers.

apnews.com

you can read the smart ass answer and get it. Rambo had nothing to do with my question.

Guns aren’t going away. Mentally ill kids and adults are going to continue running the streets as they wish with no monitoring or meds so we better figure out something to help address when they decide to kill a large number of people.

I have a handgun and license to carry. I don’t carry. I’ve had some training on the handgun I have. I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to handle a situation like just happened. I just ask if maybe we pay for sone teachers to be trained and stay trained and armed if the situation arises.

If your point is “someone should have alerted police after that post” then I agree. If your point is that Facebook should’ve somehow seen that post and acted on it within 30 minutes then I think you believe we live in a science fiction land.

They should be able to algorithmically recognize certain wording and act - but that act would be to put it in someone’s queue to review - not call police automatically. That would be 99% false alarms.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Welcome to nginx

archive.ph

They were too busy putting Mom's in cuffs and tasing parents trying to retrieve their kids from a bus outside. The Mom in cuffs drove 40 ****ing miles from her job, got cuffed, convinced them to let her out, snuck into the school, and rescued her own children.

Infuriating is not enough to describe this.

The civil suit will be outrageous.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I have a buddy who is retired from the military who teaches math in high school. He was special forces and a combat veteran. I’m sure he’d be the perfect kind of teacher to be armed and ready. I’m sure there are other people teaching with similar sorts of skills or experience. Why not arm them?

I think this incident shows how futile that would be. Only X teachers would agree to be armed and that number is going to be very small. 1 - X will be much larger and the random chance of someone being barricaded in an armed teachers room would be very very small and perhaps not worth the risk and hassle of having weapons in the classroom.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

As I said I’m sure a few might. As I also said, there was a case of a security guard leaving his gun in the bathroom. Can’t imagine there are actually very many trained military veterans teaching but I suppose if they want to be armed and can keep their weapon in a safe place that’s fine.

There is a very active soldier to teacher program, though I may have the name of the program wrong. I know at least six people that are teaching in high schools after retiring from the military. I think there are many more than people think there are.

I considered the same after retirement, but I went a different and more lucrative route. Maybe I’m greedy. I blame that on growing up poor.

 

[bawlmer]

I think this incident shows how futile that would be. Only X teachers would agree to be armed and that number is going to be very small. 1 - X will be much larger and the random chance of someone being barricaded in an armed teachers room would be very very small and perhaps not worth the risk and hassle of having weapons in the classroom.

I read that Texas teachers can already bring guns to school. Maybe more will now, but also would guess most of those who are so inclined already do. Especially former military. Most teachers would probably just quit if they felt they needed to arm themselves.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I think this incident shows how futile that would be. Only X teachers would agree to be armed and that number is going to be very small. 1 - X will be much larger and the random chance of someone being barricaded in an armed teachers room would be very very small and perhaps not worth the risk and hassle of having weapons in the classroom.

It might not work in every school, but if this happened in my friend’s school, I’d bet on him finding and stopping the shooter. I’ve seen him shoot and I know him. He’s hard core.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I read that Texas teachers can already bring guns to school. Maybe more will now, but also would guess most of those who are so inclined already do. Especially former military. Most teachers would probably just quit if they felt they needed to arm themselves.

Definitely shouldn’t be mandatory for arming teachers. Should be voluntary and selective.

 

[Crayfish57]

Look at it like this. Say your house catches on fire. Instead of the fire department showing up, we have the local Burger King employees come. Sure they have been “trained” but firefighting is not what they do, they make fast food. You will be asking them to walk into a blazing home to save your child. Does this sound like a great idea or incredibly stupid?

Ever heard of the volunteer fire depatment? Most of them have jobs.

 

[bawlmer]

The civil suit will be outrageous.

Police chief should be fired, potentially prosecuted. Dismal failure, waiting for a tactical force while school children are being massacred.

 

[Crayfish57]

When you're in a crowd, or anywhere, really, you should always have a plan.

It may not be enough, but you shouldn't be caught by surprise when something happens. You should always have situational awareness.

Police are paid to put their lives on the line. It's part of the deal and they know it. It might make sense to try to negotiate and plan if they've got a bank robber cornered. But with a shooter in a school. You go in. Period.

I will almost never sit with my back to the door in a restaurant for that very reason. I'm sure OhioGuy would think taking any precautions is just irrational fear and however else he keeps putting it to take precautions. That dude must live in a bunker somewhere and never poke his head out

 

[bawlmer]

I will almost never sit with my back to the door in a restaurant for that very reason. I'm sure OhioGuy would think taking any precautions is just irrational fear and however else he keeps putting it to take precautions. That dude must live in a bunker somewhere and never poke his head out

you've watched too many gangster movies!

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Welcome to nginx

archive.ph

They were too busy putting Mom's in cuffs and tasing parents trying to retrieve their kids from a bus outside. The Mom in cuffs drove 40 ****ing miles from her job, got cuffed, convinced them to let her out, snuck into the school, and rescued her own children.

Infuriating is not enough to describe this.

I read that.

That is beyond words. Hell would be coming from the skies.

 

[SqueakyClean]

There is a very active soldier to teacher program, though I may have the name of the program wrong. I know at least six people that are teaching in high schools after retiring from the military. I think there are many more than people think there are.

I considered the same after retirement, but I went a different and more lucrative route. Maybe I’m greedy. I blame that on growing up poor.

I think that is based on your location though. For example, in my son's elementary school, 9 of the 12 teachers were female and under the age of 26. Two of the others were in their 60's and the image to conjure in your mind of what they looked like would best be something close to Sophia from the Golden Girls. As was said, I am sure you can find alot of really good former LEOs or military who could serve the roll, but you are not going to be able to fill every school.

 

[stollcpa]

If your point is “someone should have alerted police after that post” then I agree. If your point is that Facebook should’ve somehow seen that post and acted on it within 30 minutes then I think you believe we live in a science fiction land.

They should be able to algorithmically recognize certain wording and act - but that act would be to put it in someone’s queue to review - not call police automatically. That would be 99% false alarms.

Makes sense. So why do you think police waited outside for an hour without rushing the building knowing the shooter was killing people inside?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Makes sense. So why do you think police waited outside for an hour without rushing the building knowing the shooter was killing people inside?

Because they were under equipped, poorly led and cowards. In no particular order.

 

[IUCrazy2]

The civil suit will be outrageous.

How many died because they did not move fast enough to get medical attention? How many did he shoot after police arrived? That lady drove from 40 miles away and rescued her own kids. People make fun of the "gravy seals" and stuff like that, but man, those police have the training and equipment and they did nothing for an hour.

The guy shot his grandmother in the face, she got quick attention and lived. A quicker response may have saved a few of those kids.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I think that is based on your location though. For example, in my son's elementary school, 9 of the 12 teachers were female and under the age of 26. Two of the others were in their 60's and the image to conjure in your mind of what they looked like would best be something close to Sophia from the Golden Girls. As was said, I am sure you can find alot of really good former LEOs or military who could serve the roll, but you are not going to be able to fill every school.

A lot. Yes, won’t work at every school. Also, ex-military that want to teach seem to do it high school and college level in my experience.

 

[UncleMark]

Because they were under equipped, poorly led and cowards. In no particular order.

Their group picture has them all dressed up and looking like an infantry squad.

 

[T.M.P.]

People make fun of the "gravy seals" and stuff like that....

Everyone makes fun of larpers and cosplayers, even larpers and cosplayers.

 

[zeke4ahs]

How many died because they did not move fast enough to get medical attention? How many did he shoot after police arrived? That lady drove from 40 miles away and rescued her own kids. People make fun of the "gravy seals" and stuff like that, but man, those police have the training and equipment and they did nothing for an hour.

The guy shot his grandmother in the face, she got quick attention and lived. A quicker response may have saved a few of those kids.

One little girl allegedly died when police called out asking if anyone needed help. She called out and got shot. ( by the shooter, not police)

 

[SqueakyClean]

One little girl allegedly died when police called out asking if anyone needed help. She called out and got shot.

If this is even remotely true, multiple heads will roll in that police department.

 

[Crayfish57]

Look who finally woke up!

That means Bowl must be asleep ?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Their group picture has them all dressed up and looking like an infantry squad.

They’re LARPers

 

[zeke4ahs]

If this is even remotely true, multiple heads will roll in that police department.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna30617. Just a little boy’s version, so he may have details off.

 

[Noodle]

WTF

WATCH: Texas Police Spox on Live TV Confirmed Cops Went In for Their Own Kids During Uvalde Shooting

Texas Department Public Safety spokesman Lt. Christopher Olivarez confirmed to a reporter during a live shot that police officers went into Robb Elementary School to get their own children during the massacre. Amid outrage over reports that frantic families who complained about police inaction...

www.mediaite.com

 

[Baller23Boogie]

How many died because they did not move fast enough to get medical attention? How many did he shoot after police arrived? That lady drove from 40 miles away and rescued her own kids. People make fun of the "gravy seals" and stuff like that, but man, those police have the training and equipment and they did nothing for an hour.

The guy shot his grandmother in the face, she got quick attention and lived. A quicker response may have saved a few of those kids.

 

[larsIU]

WTF

WATCH: Texas Police Spox on Live TV Confirmed Cops Went In for Their Own Kids During Uvalde Shooting

Texas Department Public Safety spokesman Lt. Christopher Olivarez confirmed to a reporter during a live shot that police officers went into Robb Elementary School to get their own children during the massacre. Amid outrage over reports that frantic families who complained about police inaction...

www.mediaite.com

WT Holy F

 

[sglowrider]

Another victim:

Husband of teacher killed in Texas school shooting dies after suffering heart attack

Dad-of-four Joe Garcia died "due to grief" after his heroic teacher wife Irma Garcia, 46, was killed trying to protect pupils at Robb Elementary School during shooter Salvador Ramos' rampage.

The couple were high school sweethearts and had been married 24 years.

 

[Bill4411]

I think you mean mockumentary.

If you like it, then you should watch "Chariot of the Gods"-that's a real eye opener.

 

[stollcpa]

Because they were under equipped, poorly led and cowards. In no particular order.

You covered it all. In the current environment it’s not going to be easy to get good people willing to join police forces.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

You covered it all. In the current environment it’s not going to be easy to get good people willing to join police forces.

You also don’t have to put small people onto tactics teams to satisfy a gender quota. That’s dumb. How are those small females going to breach a barricade?

 

[stollcpa]

You also don’t have to put small people onto tactics teams to satisfy a gender quota. That’s dumb. How are those small females going to breach a barricade?

Woke overrides common sense.

 

[IUclover]

You also don’t have to put small people onto tactics teams to satisfy a gender quota. That’s dumb. How are those small females going to breach a barricade?

Is that what was holding them back?