Abortion in Florida

[Bill4411]

Why don't we just let Roe v. Wade stand? Why after 50 years of clarity is it being undone? I don't like abortion, but the issue really is on the mother's conscience. Why not leave it that way? At least we had formal guidelines and not 50 different states interpretations.

 

[DANC]

DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).

So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?

There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.

Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks

Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

www.npr.org

If the uncle changes genders and identifies as her aunt, is it really rape?

You can find the odd situation in whatever law is passed. Presumably they'll make some kind of allowance for situations like this, but then everyone who doesn't comply with the law will claim some special situation.

C'mon, man!

 

[mcmurtry66]

There are protections. But we try hard to water down sex ed to make sure kids do not know them. Are those liberals who don't want those measures taught?

I find it hard to believe kids aren't aware of condoms plan b and planned parenthood. Social media is their teacher, along with friends siblings

 

[DANC]

I’m moderately liberal and I could probably get on board with a time limitation as long as there are carve outs for rape and invest or whatever could be considered a forced pregnancy. But Florida isn’t the first state to do the “only in a medical emergency” stunt. Oklahoma did it shortly before Florida.

I’ve said it time and time again. If folks want to eliminate abortion you need to provide a better option. Just telling people to live with consequences of their decision doesn’t work. It might make some feel better but it surely doesn’t work. When I see state or federally subsidized health care and free adoption services for the mother and prospective, desirous parents then we can have a real discussion.

It shouldn't be all on the mother. Baby daddys should be forced to either pay or go to jail. Enforcement of this simple rule will make guys think twice. It may not stop them, but they may be persuaded to use birth control more.

Basically, we are subsidizing fatherless families. It's killing this country.

 

[DANC]

Go away

Nailed it!

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

Yes pregnancy is mostly preventable (although not at 100% effective).

Republicans were also against making insurance cover preventative options so they didn't really want to address that aspect either.

The republican stance seems to be don't help make it easier to get pregnancy prevention options, don't allow for abortion, and then don't provide social services or aid to those people once they are born.

Am I missing something?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yes pregnancy is mostly preventable (although not at 100% effective).

Republicans were also against making insurance cover preventative options so they didn't really want to address that aspect either.

Insurance cover what? Planned Parenthood gives out pre and post protection for free. All you need you can get for under $60

 

[mcmurtry66]

It shouldn't be all on the mother. Baby daddys should be forced to either pay or go to jail. Enforcement of this simple rule will make guys think twice. It may not stop them, but they may be persuaded to use birth control more.

Basically, we are subsidizing fatherless families. It's killing this country.

Failure to pay child support can be a felony. It's the exception to no debtor's prison

 

[DANC]

Failure to pay child support can be a felony. It's the exception to no debtor's prison

Can be. Usually isn't.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Can be. Usually isn't.

All depends on bent of prosecutor. And can go as part of civil contempt order

 

[DANC]

All depends on bent of prosecutor

Well, in Indiana, I know of no guy who has gone to prison for not paying child support.

I had several (more than several, actually), women working for me in the deli I owned. Not a single one of them got consistent child support. They may have gotten dribs and drabs, but nothing like their agreement.

In fact many of the lazy ass 'fathers' would work long enough to collect unemployment and then get fired so they could sit on their ass and make more babies.

As I've often said, the worst thing that happened to the black community was subsidizing illegitimate births, and now it's affected all racial groups and and all of society.

 

[Indianaftw]

Can be. Usually isn't.

It can feel like it. Anyone who has ever paid child support and sat in court waiting their turn here in Indiana...OMG a couple times I had to sit for changes to my payments. I can tell you this the judges don't mess around. They will throw your ass in jail.

 

[DANC]

Yes pregnancy is mostly preventable (although not at 100% effective).

Republicans were also against making insurance cover preventative options so they didn't really want to address that aspect either.

The republican stance seems to be don't help make it easier to get pregnancy prevention options, don't allow for abortion, and then don't provide social services or aid to those people once they are born.

Am I missing something?

Yeah, you're missing something - a brain.

 

[Indianaftw]

Well, in Indiana, I know of no guy who has gone to prison for not paying child support.

I had several (more than several, actually), women working for me in the deli I owned. Not a single one of them got consistent child support. They may have gotten dribs and drabs, but nothing like their agreement.

In fact many of the lazy ass 'fathers' would work long enough to collect unemployment and then get fired so they could sit on their ass and make more babies.

As I've often said, the worst thing that happened to the black community was subsidizing illegitimate births, and now it's affected all racial groups and and all of society.

These women need to step forward if the dads are not paying. The courts I sat in I watched the judge lock a few up. I'm sitting there going sh!t they aren't messing around.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I find it hard to believe kids aren't aware of condoms plan b and planned parenthood. Social media is their teacher, along with friends siblings

Social media as a source of solid health information? You are seriously going there?

Friends? I know from my youth a boy will say whatever he can to get sex. "Sure, I will pull out and it is 100%effextive". "No one can get pregnant on Tuesdays". "Stand up after".

Kids in abstinence only are the ones most likely to be punished for having condoms or other birth control. A lot of sex isn't planned, the "good girls" often feel a stigma to having protection.

Speaking of condoms, why don't we punish the boys who do not demand to wear one?

 

[DANC]

These women need to step forward if the dads are not paying. The courts I sat in I watched the judge lock a few up. I'm sitting there going sh!t they aren't messing around.

OK, you're probably right about that - these women were almost as irresponsible as their baby daddy.

I have no first-hand experience being in court for such things, so I defer to your knowledge of it.

All I know it, there are a helluva lot of 'fathers' who don't pay the full freight or have any kind of presence in their kids' lives (except negative ones).

 

[mcmurtry66]

Social media as a source of solid health information? You are seriously going there?

Friends? I know from my youth a boy will say whatever he can to get sex. "Sure, I will pull out and it is 100%effextive". "No one can get pregnant on Tuesdays". "Stand up after".

Kids in abstinence only are the ones most likely to be punished for having condoms or other birth control. A lot of sex isn't planned, the "good girls" often feel a stigma to having protection.

Speaking of condoms, why don't we punish the boys who do not demand to wear one?

You sound very old Marv. Where do you think PSA's go?. Planned parenthood is on Tiktok. Plan B. That's where kids get info. It's not complicated health info. It's a pill. Super basic stuff. A benefit of social media

We do punish the boys. 22 years of child support

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Insurance cover what? Planned Parenthood gives out pre and post protection for free. All you need you can get for under $60

Hickory doesn’t think this stuff through. He just writes random stuff and then inserts “Republicans/Trump bad”.

That’s the extent of his participation in this forum.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Hickory doesn’t think this stuff through. He just writes random stuff and then inserts “Republicans/Trump bad”.

That’s the extent of his participation in this forum.

He's a blinkard

 

[Indianaftw]

OK, you're probably right about that - these women were almost as irresponsible as their baby daddy.

I have no first-hand experience being in court for such things, so I defer to your knowledge of it.

All I know it, there are a helluva lot of 'fathers' who don't pay the full freight or have any kind of presence in their kids' lives (except negative ones).

Yea either the dads are begging the moms to keep it out of court or maybe the moms are scared? IDK. What I do know is if that dad ends up in court, his ass is the courts until that child support payment ends. Now when I was there it was years ago and there are different judges now so I don't know how they deal with it. Maybe some lawyers can chime in.

 

[IUclover]

Disgusting. So is this like a moral, religious, or mens right reason for those who support the bill?

Not changing any minds here. I just have never been in opposition of abortion or an extremist like the party who passed this bill.

 

[Indianaftw]

Disgusting. So is this like a moral, religious, or mens right reason for those who support the bill?

Not changing any minds here. I just have never been in opposition of abortion or an extremist like the party who passed this bill.

So you don't think at a certain point that a baby in the womb has no rights?

 

[IUclover]

So you don't think at a certain point that a baby in the womb has no rights?

Sure. Why not at six months. That’s a good round number.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You sound very old Marv. Where do you think PSA's go?. Planned parenthood is on TikTok with a massive following. Plan B. That's where kids get info. It's not complicated health info. It's a pill. Super basic stuff. A benefit of social media

We do punish the boys. 22 years of child support

You realize there are religions that teach plan B is a portion and do not allow the use, and people stating that are on tik tok warning kids not to use it.

The mother has to carry it, deliver it, and provide child support. The boy is having it easy.

There are side effects to plan B. Something else we put on the girl and not the boy.

You touted something other than condom use. Condoms are there, if the boy doesn't use one throw him into a work gang for a week.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You realize there are religions that teach plan B is a portion and do not allow the use, and people stating that are on tik tok warning kids not to use it.

The mother has to carry it, deliver it, and provide child support. The boy is having it easy.

There are side effects to plan B. Something else we put on the girl and not the boy.

You touted something other than condom use. Condoms are there, if the boy doesn't use one throw him into a work gang for a week.

And the outliers can still get an abortion if they so choose. By way of perspective there were 72,000 abortions in 2020. 4,200 were after 13 weeks

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Insurance cover what? Planned Parenthood gives out pre and post protection for free. All you need you can get for under $60

What? You saying the GOP doesn’t control private insurance contract terms? I thought Mitch McConnell just told them what to do.

 

[larsIU]

It shouldn't be all on the mother. Baby daddys should be forced to either pay or go to jail. Enforcement of this simple rule will make guys think twice. It may not stop them, but they may be persuaded to use birth control more.

Basically, we are subsidizing fatherless families. It's killing this country.

We don’t need more people in jail and punishment isn’t the answer. At least I don’t believe it will solve the abortion riddle.

 

[iuwclurker]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

I basically agree with you. One step further, I think ro versus wade is absurd. The notion of a woman has a right to her own body when there is an impregnated egg inside her. RvW should be overthrown in its entirety and a better logic developed for any argument in favor of abortion.

I also believe in responsibility. So here’s an idea. How about putting the onus on the male? No sex without written permission co-signed by both parties. Period. No signed document and DNA proves it belongs to the male? Rape. Or whatever crime you want to label it as.

That’s some serious accountability.

After all, I think we can all agree that sexual intercourse does encroach on a woman’s space.

 

[Bowlmania]

No. It's really not. It's actually quite simple. Pull out. Put on a condom. Take birth control. Go to Walgreens and get Plan B. Go to planned parenthood and get it for free. Stop with the excuses....There's nothing multifaceted or complex about it.

Stop with the "pull out" recommendation. That's just stupid and irresponsible. If you relied on that, as you said earlier, for 20 years without getting anyone pregnant, your partners were simultaneously using a reliable birth control method or you were having sex with blow-up dolls.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I basically agree with you. One step further, I think ro versus wade is absurd. The notion of a woman has a right to her own body when there is an impregnated egg inside her. RvW should be overthrown in its entirety and a better logic developed for any argument in favor of abortion.

I also believe in responsibility. So here’s an idea. How about putting the onus on the male? No sex without written permission co-signed by both parties. Period. No signed document and DNA proves it belongs to the male? Rape. Or whatever crime you want to label it as.

That’s some serious accountability.

After all, I think we can all agree that sexual intercourse does encroach on a woman’s space.

Jesus. That’s some Orwellian level responsibility right there.

 

[IUINSB]

Stop with the "pull out" recommendation. That's just stupid and irresponsible. If you relied on that, as you said earlier, for 20 years without getting anyone pregnant, your partners were simultaneously using a reliable birth control method or you were having sex with blow-up dolls.

I'm betting on the use of blow up dolls. TIC

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

And the outliers can still get an abortion if they so choose. By way of perspective there were 72,000 abortions in 2020. 4,200 were after 13 weeks

Wait, but I thought 15 weeks was some puritanical level extremism from Florida Republicans.

You mean this has been dishonestly framed?

WOW!!!

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Hickory doesn’t think this stuff through. He just writes random stuff and then inserts “Republicans/Trump bad”.

That’s the extent of his participation in this forum.

Lol truth hurts doesn't it.. maybe address what I said that you think was so wrong instead of being a little pussy with the insults.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I basically agree with you. One step further, I think ro versus wade is absurd. The notion of a woman has a right to her own body when there is an impregnated egg inside her. RvW should be overthrown in its entirety and a better logic developed for any argument in favor of abortion.

I also believe in responsibility. So here’s an idea. How about putting the onus on the male? No sex without written permission co-signed by both parties. Period. No signed document and DNA proves it belongs to the male? Rape. Or whatever crime you want to label it as.

That’s some serious accountability.

After all, I think we can all agree that sexual intercourse does encroach on a woman’s space.

Always Sunny has a hilarious MeToo episode re consent

 

[mcmurtry66]

Stop with the "pull out" recommendation. That's just stupid and irresponsible. If you relied on that, as you said earlier, for 20 years without getting anyone pregnant, your partners were simultaneously using a reliable birth control method or you were having sex with blow-up dolls.

It's 96 percent effective if used perfectly. I used it perfectly. But that's the least material part of the post. Way to go! The opportunities to prevent and deal with pregnancy are plentiful, convenient and cheap. And if you don't bother to avail yourself of any of those abortion is still available.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Lol truth hurts doesn't it pussy

Yeah, THAT’S what it is. 😂

 

[mcmurtry66]

Wait, but I thought 15 weeks was some puritanical level extremism from Florida Republicans.

You mean this has been dishonestly framed?

WOW!!!

No one ever looks at the actual data. Only stories

 

[Bowlmania]

It's 96 percent effective if used perfectly. I used it perfectly. But that's the least material part of the post. Way to go! The opportunities to prevent and deal with pregnancy are plentiful, convenient and cheap. And if you don't bother to avail yourself of any of those abortion is still available.

Dude. First, I was just having a little fun with the blow-up doll comment. Don't take yourself so seriously.

Here's my public service announcement on the off-chance there are any young men reading this. Irrespective of how "perfectly" you may have used the withdrawal method, it is one of the least reliable birth control methods. "You dribble before you shoot" doesn't just pertain to basketball. Pre-ejaculation fluid contains sperm. One in five couples who practice the withdrawal method for one year will get pregnant.

Withdrawal method (coitus interruptus) - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[IUclover]

No one ever looks at the actual data. Only stories

What about the 20 week test that most pregnant women take? Seems important.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Dude. First, I was just having a little fun with the blow-up doll comment. Don't take yourself so seriously.

Here's my public service announcement on the off-chance there are any young men reading this. Irrespective of how "perfectly" you may have used the withdrawal method, it is one of the least reliable birth control methods. "You dribble before you shoot" doesn't just pertain to basketball. Pre-ejaculation fluid contains sperm. One in five couples who practice the withdrawal method for one year will get pregnant.

Withdrawal method (coitus interruptus) - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

I'm only Fing around. It's definitely the least effective method. I will say in all honesty that's all we ever did for years.