Abortion in Florida

[larsIU]

DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).

So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?

There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.

Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks

Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

www.npr.org

 

[IUclover]

Disgusting.

 

[mcmurtry66]

DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).

So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?

There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.

Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks

Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

www.npr.org

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

 

[Indianaftw]

What's disgusting? I guess I don't get it. The person would be nearly 4 months pregnant. I'm a Bible guy when it comes to these decisions because it seems to have the best values. It's an innocent life and at 4 months your killing a human being. I can't even imagine killing a baby gawd. As traumatic as it may be there's a morning after pill? I always question people who are for this. What if it would have been you? I've put my hand on my wife's belly and talked to and felt a baby move. Even had the baby jump after it heard my voice. It's a human life no? 15 weeks is plenty of time and I can't even stomach an innocent baby fighting against whatever gets done to it at that age. ****ing horrible. Skewer me it's my opinion

 

[mcmurtry66]

What's disgusting? I guess I don't get it. The person would be nearly 4 months pregnant. I'm a Bible guy when it comes to these decisions because it seems to have the best values. It's an innocent life and at 4 months your killing a human being. I can't even imagine killing a baby gawd. As traumatic as it may be there's a morning after pill? I always question people who are for this. What if it would have been you? I've put my hand on my wife's belly and talked to and felt a baby move. Even had the baby jump after it heard my voice. It's a human life no? 15 weeks is plenty of time and I can't even stomach an innocent baby fighting against whatever gets done to it at that age. ****ing horrible. Skewer me it's my opinion

Rape and incest are different. Not doing anything at all to prevent a pregnancy then bitching that 4 months isn't long enough is just irresponsible. At some point we need to require people to be accountable.

 

[Indianaftw]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

The dad's thing he's doing...That's brilliant and should be in communities everywhere. Especially inner city. Look at the stats of kids who grow up fatherless. Damn kudos to that I hope it works.

 

[Indianaftw]

Rape and incest are different. Not doing anything at all to prevent a pregnancy then bitching that 4 months isn't long enough is just irresponsible. At some point we need to require people to be accountable.

Agree. Anyone who has children prolly struggle with this topic more than anyone but 15 weeks. I don't want to have a conversation with God about the subject. Scares the hell out of me. At some point its murder and I am not going to say when. Ugghhhh

 

[mcmurtry66]

The dad's thing he's doing...That's brilliant and should be in communities everywhere. Especially inner city. Look at the stats of kids who grow up fatherless. Damn kudos to that I hope it works.

It is brilliant. DeSantis is spot on. Help people. Give them resources to make better decisions. But start demanding more of people. AOC and the progressives endlessly shifting blame for crime and irresponsibility retards the nation's "progress." Bail reform. Free money. Loan forgiveness. Work leave time someone else pays for. On and on. Indiana has a 2 percent unemployment rate. Just go work. There are few excuses left

 

[Univee2]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

Please explain: “I’m slowing getting back on the D train.”

Does this mean you’re headed towards a rapprochement with Cori Bush, but at only 20 mph now rather than 30?

 

[larsIU]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

I’m moderately liberal and I could probably get on board with a time limitation as long as there are carve outs for rape and invest or whatever could be considered a forced pregnancy. But Florida isn’t the first state to do the “only in a medical emergency” stunt. Oklahoma did it shortly before Florida.

I’ve said it time and time again. If folks want to eliminate abortion you need to provide a better option. Just telling people to live with consequences of their decision doesn’t work. It might make some feel better but it surely doesn’t work. When I see state or federally subsidized health care and free adoption services for the mother and prospective, desirous parents then we can have a real discussion.

 

[Indianaftw]

DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).

So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?

There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.

Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks

Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

www.npr.org

Surprised you didn't bring up Oklahoma.

 

[Bowlmania]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

No attack, and I don't disagree with some of what you've written. But, for most healthy people, getting pregnant isn't hard. It's easy, and happens quickly. And the "withdrawal" method is unreliable as hell. If you relied solely on that for twenty years and didn't get anyone pregnant, you're either the luckiest man alive or you were shooting blanks.

I'm all for accountability and responsibility but alcohol, which is frequently in the mix, lowers inhibitions and can raise questions of consent.

It's a complex issue.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Please explain: “I’m slowing getting back on the D train.”

Does this mean you’re headed towards a rapprochement with Cori Bush, but at only 20 mph now rather than 30?

Lol. I'm getting annoyed enough that my spite meter is spiking and getting on the DeSantis train.

 

[larsIU]

Please explain: “I’m slowing getting back on the D train.”

Does this mean you’re headed towards a rapprochement with Cori Bush, but at only 20 mph now rather than 30?

Could be wayyyyyyy worse than that my friend.

 

[Indianaftw]

I’m moderately liberal and I could probably get on board with a time limitation as long as there are carve outs for rape and invest or whatever could be considered a forced pregnancy. But Florida isn’t the first state to do the “only in a medical emergency” stunt. Oklahoma did it shortly before Florida.

I’ve said it time and time again. If folks want to eliminate abortion you need to provide a better option. Just telling people to live with consequences of their decision doesn’t work. It might make some feel better but it surely doesn’t work. When I see state or federally subsidized health care and free adoption services for the mother and prospective, desirous parents then we can have a real discussion.

So you don't think 15 weeks is enough time?

 

[larsIU]

Surprised you didn't bring up Oklahoma.

Just did. DeSantis will be a contender for 2024 so I focused there.

 

[Indianaftw]

Just did. DeSantis will be a contender for 2024 so I focused there.

Saw that

 

[larsIU]

So you don't think 15 weeks is enough time?

I’d have to think about it and read up on it to be completely honest. I grew up Catholic. Mom hated abortion but was pro choice. Of course her choice would have been to not have an abortion.

 

[mcmurtry66]

No attack, and I don't disagree with some of what you've written. But, for most healthy people, getting pregnant isn't hard. It's easy, and happens quickly. And the "withdrawal" method is unreliable as hell. If you relied solely on that for twenty years and didn't get anyone pregnant, you're either the luckiest man alive or you were shooting blanks.

I'm all for accountability and responsibility but alcohol, which is frequently in the mix, lowers inhibitions and can raise questions of consent.

It's a complex issue.

I don't think you stop shooting blanks. I've got two kids.... Pre game birth control and condoms and pull out - post game plan B at CVS no prescription required. Combined under $60

Getting pregnant is lazy

 

[mcmurtry66]

I’m moderately liberal and I could probably get on board with a time limitation as long as there are carve outs for rape and invest or whatever could be considered a forced pregnancy. But Florida isn’t the first state to do the “only in a medical emergency” stunt. Oklahoma did it shortly before Florida.

I’ve said it time and time again. If folks want to eliminate abortion you need to provide a better option. Just telling people to live with consequences of their decision doesn’t work. It might make some feel better but it surely doesn’t work. When I see state or federally subsidized health care and free adoption services for the mother and prospective, desirous parents then we can have a real discussion.

Yes rape and incest need to be addressed and carved out and I would give them whatever the doctors and psychiatrists recommend. They would have to be in a horrific mental state and need help

 

[Courtsensetwo]

So you don't think 15 weeks is enough time?

For what?

 

[Indianaftw]

For what?

Go away

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Go away

That is what i thought, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

It is funny how many conservatives I know that are moral absolutists now that we're absolute hell-raisers in their youth. As teens drinking, drugs, and driving. Petty theft. For some, I knew them back then, others admit to it/brag about it today. One friend loves telling the story of a judge that was going to send him to jail unless he joined the Marines.

But they seem REALLY unforgiving on others making mistakes. It was easier back then, especially in small towns. Everyone knew everyone. Cops were far more likely to give one a talking to and remind them their families have been friends for 50 years.

There is no study I have ever seen that says withdrawal is 100% effective. You were lucky, plain and simple. Like the kid the other day that survived a game of shooting each other while wearing a bulletproof vest. His friend was unlucky. The lucky one is able to say a bulletproof vest never failed him. While true, hopefully people realize that it is just dumb luck. Just as it was dumb luck a lot of kids I knew drove drunk or high and never killed anyone/themselves.

But we aren't allowed to consider luck in how some people succeed and others fail.

 

[Bowlmania]

Getting pregnant is lazy

Silly oversimplification of a multi-faceted, complex issue.

 

[mcmurtry66]

It is funny how many conservatives I know that are moral absolutists now that we're absolute hell-raisers in their youth. As teens drinking, drugs, and driving. Petty theft. For some, I knew them back then, others admit to it/brag about it today. One friend loves telling the story of a judge that was going to send him to jail unless he joined the Marines.

But they seem REALLY unforgiving on others making mistakes. It was easier back then, especially in small towns. Everyone knew everyone. Cops were far more likely to give one a talking to and remind them their families have been friends for 50 years.

There is no study I have ever seen that says withdrawal is 100% effective. You were lucky, plain and simple. Like the kid the other day that survived a game of shooting each other while wearing a bulletproof vest. His friend was unlucky. The lucky one is able to say a bulletproof vest never failed him. While true, hopefully people realize that it is just dumb luck. Just as it was dumb luck a lot of kids I knew drove drunk or high and never killed anyone/themselves.

But we aren't allowed to consider luck in how some people succeed and others fail.

You're missing the point. I don't condemn the mistake. Mistakes happen. But there are ample, easy ways to prevent the mistake. But if it happens I get it. You can go to Walgreens and get Plan B. And if you don't want to do that you still have FOUR months to get an abortion.

It's not about the "forgiving the mistake" it's about how many chances you get to prevent the mistake and remedy the mistake. But to Dems it's never enough

 

[mcmurtry66]

Silly oversimplification of a multi-faceted, complex issue.

No. It's really not. It's actually quite simple. Pull out. Put on a condom. Take birth control. Go to Walgreens and get Plan B. Go to planned parenthood and get it for free. Stop with the excuses....There's nothing multifaceted or complex about it.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Just like the legislators, bunch of men making decisions on what women have to do and will profoundly impact them for their entire lives. It’s easy for men to say you should have done this, you should have done that. It’s not always that easy. It takes two…. And you can bow out at any time. Finally, there will always be abortions available for those with money. These type of laws only make women without money go back to dangerous back alley abortions. I’ll bow out of the discussion now because it’s something you can never truly understand. ( I don’t say this condescendingly as there are many men issues that women can never truly understand either).

 

[Indianaftw]

It is funny how many conservatives I know that are moral absolutists now that we're absolute hell-raisers in their youth. As teens drinking, drugs, and driving. Petty theft. For some, I knew them back then, others admit to it/brag about it today. One friend loves telling the story of a judge that was going to send him to jail unless he joined the Marines.

But they seem REALLY unforgiving on others making mistakes. It was easier back then, especially in small towns. Everyone knew everyone. Cops were far more likely to give one a talking to and remind them their families have been friends for 50 years.

There is no study I have ever seen that says withdrawal is 100% effective. You were lucky, plain and simple. Like the kid the other day that survived a game of shooting each other while wearing a bulletproof vest. His friend was unlucky. The lucky one is able to say a bulletproof vest never failed him. While true, hopefully people realize that it is just dumb luck. Just as it was dumb luck a lot of kids I knew drove drunk or high and never killed anyone/themselves.

But we aren't allowed to consider luck in how some people succeed and others fail.

What I learned from this post "but they" who the hell is they here?

 

[Indianaftw]

Just like the legislators, bunch of men making decisions on what women have to do and will profoundly impact them for their entire lives. It’s easy for men to say you should have done this, you should have done that. It’s not always that easy. It takes two…. And you can bow out at any time. Finally, there will always be abortions available for those with money. These type of laws only make women without money go back to dangerous back alley abortions. I’ll bow out of the discussion now because it’s something you can never truly understand. ( I don’t say this condescendingly as there are many men issues that women can never truly understand either).

So where do you draw the line zeke? Or should there not be a line at all. Deliver the baby and kill it? I'll wait...

Actually I'll add. I wonder how many kids passed through your classroom that were almost terminated?

 

[zeke4ahs]

You're missing the point. I don't condemn the mistake. Mistakes happen. But there are ample, easy ways to prevent the mistake. But if it happens I get it. You can go to Walgreens and get Plan B. And if you don't want to do that you still have FOUR months to get an abortion.

It's not about the "forgiving the mistake" it's about how many chances you get to prevent the mistake and remedy the mistake. But to Dems it's never enough

Many women have non predictable cycles and don’t even know they are pregnant until about 4 months.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Many women have non predictable cycles and don’t even know they are pregnant until about 4 months.

They knew they had sex. Right? They know a pregnancy test is $8 right? They know Plan B is $50 or free at Planned Parenthood right? If not maybe Dems should devote more time to teaching...personal responsibility. Ohhhhh the horror

 

[bub-rub]

DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).

So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?

There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.

Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks

Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

www.npr.org

ya, it’s pretty rad. Providing safe abortions doesn’t mesh with fake bible stories, so now dumb and/ or poor people have to have babies they can’t raise and the rest of us pay for it. What a deal!

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You're missing the point. I don't condemn the mistake. Mistakes happen. But there are ample, easy ways to prevent the mistake. But if it happens I get it. You can go to Walgreens and get Plan B. And if you don't want to do that you still have FOUR months to get an abortion.

It's not about the "forgiving the mistake" it's about how many chances you get to prevent the mistake and remedy the mistake. But to Dems it's never enough

The story about all the sex you had without a pregnancy was about the mistake, it has nothing to do with the 15 weeks. And it was a bit of a brag.

 

[mcmurtry66]

ya, it’s pretty rad. Providing safe abortions doesn’t mesh with fake bible stories, so now dumb and/ or poor people have to have babies they can’t raise and the rest of us pay for it. What a deal!

Dumb and or poor people having babies they can't raise so we pay for is spot on and a good counter argument

 

[mcmurtry66]

The story about all the sex you had without a pregnancy was about the mistake, it has nothing to do with the 15 weeks. And it was a bit of a brag.

It wasn't intended as such. It went to one of the many measures of protection or was intended as such. When you consider all the CONVENIENT measures of pre and post protection 15 weeks is ample time

 

[Jg48]

I think there should be a carve out for rape/incest until viability. 24 weeks or whatever. Otherwise I'm fine with 15 weeks. I'll get crucified for this but I think the Dems and postponing abortion until viability is just more lazy, unaccountable behavior. Getting pregnant is really Fing hard. Preventing it is really easy. Or really Fing lazy not to. For twenty years I pulled out with a 100 percent success rate. No rubbers. But let's look at it. Women can take birth control. Men can pull out. Men can put on rubbers. Together they can run to the drug store and get Plan B. A pregnancy test costs $8. Men's birth control pill is right around the corner. The slightest effort and personal responsibility prevents pregnancy. I'm not even playing the religion card. Just the Dems are always excusing mistakes and never point to the act as being irresponsible.

It's a woman's body. The baby has a body too.

Rape/incest make an exception.

DeSantis with his money earmarked for Dads to be Dads is trying to help. I'm slowing getting back on the D Train. Make America Florida.

Attack....

The first group to start screaming in this country frames the issue. The screamers in this case were libs. The issue was framed as a "woman's right to choose issue". It would have been interesting if the issue had been initially framed as a "When does a fetus have the right to protection of its life." The entire discussion might have been much different. After decades, this society is only beginning to shift the framing of this issue to, " When does the fetus inside the woman acquire the right right to exist as a human being....When can the woman can no longer kill it?" I am not a religious person and I don't look at it in a religious context. But, it is a profound question that places the values and the nature of a society to the forefront.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

You can’t fix speeding with a speed limit.



If you want fewer abortions, teach your children well.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It wasn't intended as such. It went to one of the many measures of protection or was intended as such. When you consider all the CONVENIENT measures of pre and post protection 15 weeks is ample time

There are protections. But we try hard to water down sex ed to make sure kids do not know them. Are those liberals who don't want those measures taught?

 

[mcmurtry66]

There are protections. But we try hard to water down sex ed to make sure kids do not know them. Are those liberals who don't want those measures taught?

Are conservatives preventing that teaching? I honestly don't know