A New Birth Of Freedom - Do We Need One?
- Thread starter MyTeamIsOnTheFloor
- Start date
If you’re going to run off paying members can you post the link to cancel subscriptions? I am getting that question.
Nothing good about my retort. It was mean spirited, as was your joke. I’m not proud of it, but my disdain for your posting overrides any desire to maintain decorum. In other words, I’ll sling mud back.
Some of us get paid. You just have to know the right people.
By 'you' you don't mean me, right?
I've long said slavery isn't unique to the US, and that just about every modern successful civilization until the mid-1800's were built on the backs of slaves. (Not that the US was the last modern society to ban it.) There is nothing wrong discussing that. However, this is the country we live in, and short of taking a specific class on the history of slavery, US history taught in HS shouldn't be compelled to do more than mention it.
You think a HS US history class should put in ample time on the slave trading in other countries? It should be no more than a footnote, and it wouldn't excuse our reliance on it beyond pounding our chest declaring freedom.
Side note: In the US, six states didn't initially ratify the 13th Amendment. Kentucky, the final holdout, didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until 1976.
I took an International Relations class in HS. We each spent half the semester on a topic of our choosing to prep for our mock trial final. We had a list of about 30 suggested topics but could bring up own. I got roped into the Israel/Palestinian question on the side of Palestine. I truly enjoyed the process.
Facts don't make me uncomfortable at all.
I'm not pushing the 1619 Project for HS education. Part of the curriculum, however, as it was when I went through HS, should be while we declared our independence in 1776, we really didn't mean it for everyone.
You probably wouldn't have liked Carmel HS. Those radical social studies teachers would've had you in a tizzy. They didn't teach American Exceptionalism.
Nah he’s just another lib for us to slap around. Fresh meat.
And please capitalize Kangaroo Court. All about respect.
I took it as I meant it. A joke.
Some of you guys would benefit from retooling your sense of humor.
You’re joke wasn’t funny. You’re being a complete dick to paying and non paying customers.
You should reverse Danc’s ban but you’re too proud to fix your mistake.
Following me around from topic to topic and calling me out on others. He had posts pulled by other mods, was banned from a topic by another mod.
All over me deleting a post of which he altered what I said and replied to it. Just deleted it. No admonishment. There was a pretty good discussion going on at that point too, but it was hijack by Dan's verbal diarrhea.
It was funny when Jimmy Collins told it. I gave context that I stole it from someone. I didn't get offended when he brought my mom into it. You weren't nearly as uptight when your sons were playing basketball. You need go back and find that part of you.
You hijack threads. Your humor is offensive sometimes. You never apologize. You plow ahead and everyone is afraid of you. I am not. Reinstate Danc. Love him or hate him he spurs a lot of debate on here. It was petty banning him until September 11. I made a petty mistake with TMP one time and I reversed it.
You mentioned above that teaching history should include judgimenrs about history. I agree. The question is who gets to make the judgment, the instructors or the students? If you want to believe a slave knowing marketable skills is no benefit fine. But why would you even want to prohibit others from making a different argument?
Some judgments are easy, the holocaust and other atrocities for example. . But the clear majority of historical events are much more ambiguous. One of the purposes of any teaching is teaching students how to think. Don’t think for the students.
This!
Viewing the 18th Century Declaration of Independence through a 21st century race lens is, in my judgment, bad history and bad teaching. The significance of the document in US and world history stands alone. That said, why don’t we teach that slavery in fact ended in many colonies in the immediate aftermath of the Declaration? Is that fact too inconvenient?
I didn't say I would prohibit it. Just in all my years I've never heard it presented that way, certainly not a HS level. That's it in an advance study course at a college level isn't part of this discussion.
I think slavery is one of those topics that offer clear thought.
There is no realistic downside to the advancement of rights for people, other than a possible inconvenience for those who no longer benefit from others being held back or held down. They keyword there is 'rights'.
If that makes you uncomfortable, so be it. Its significance is still outstanding, practically world shattering at the time, as well as the US being the first country to win its independence from Great Britain through battle. However, it was massively incomplete.
They do teach that! It starts the next phase of US history, the split between North and South, not just socially but economically. Stoppage of slave trading, the Missouri Compromise, later Willam Lloyd Harrison and the anti-slavery movement.
Maybe you had crappy HS history teachers.
LOL
I stay on topic, unlike you're doing. I don't talk about other posters, like you are. Having a great discussion with Co.H right now.
No. I've stated my reasons. Move on.
Fine, I will find out if I can unban him. Don’t know what’s up with you but you’re being a complete ass. As far as I am concerned you should be permanently banned if you call another poster’s mother a whore.
The Declaration was a product of negotiations and compromise. The choice was not this Deckaration or a different one. The choice was this Declaration or none at all. Slavery would have continued with either choice. There is no “however”.
Exactly. The Declaration was the beginning of the end of slavery. I attended a lecture last fall where the lecturer said slavery in the US ended with the 13th Amendment. That’s false in part. He was educated in the 80’s.
He’s cancelled or is cancelling so it doesn’t matter. @Jim Coyle can thank Bloom for another paying poster leaving with thousands of posts.
She already wrote full stop. That means you can’t reply. It’s over. Your grandkids will explain
I hate to side with Bloom on anything, but it's no loss to the WC. Brad was a loss.
Yeah. I could have escalated the point, but I probably would have been banned.
You always leave out an option, the pro-slavery people chose not to end slavery either at that moment or at some point in the future. But that option was was available to them.
BTW all you haters who said that I would be the one to run paying members off can suck it.
Banning and cancelling is a big chapter in the liberal playbook.
Yes that was an option. But that option was always separate from the declaration.
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on your opinion.
I think a HS US History class should spend time telling the relevant facts behind the major points that shaped the country. I also think government schools, when it comes to civics related topics, should try and stay as neutral as possible and if a thumb is going to be put on the scale, it should fall more on the exceptionalism side. The whole "white supremacy look at all the horrible things about America and let's belabor them" is counter productive in public education.
Arguing from the other side is often a good learning experience. The most holistic approach would be to switch sides and do the debate again.
Me either. The thing that can make people uncomfortable is how the facts are used. That is the issue CoH has when he discusses "intent" and it is the fear that people have in Florida about the intent behind the fact slaves used skills acquired in slavery to make a living when freed (in some cases).
No issue with the latter, the problem with the former is that it wants to view the entire country's history through one lens. I think that is wrongheaded but if people want to do that wrongheaded navel gazing they are fine to do that in a 300+ level college history course.
I have a BA in History from IU, I think I would have been capable of handling your old High School's history classes.
Agreed. Just like if you think teaching the bad parts of history makes you feel guilty for being white, that's on you.
It's a loss to the Ukraine thread. DANC could never act like an adult in any other situation.
