Actually I’m advocating teaching students to be great. America will take of itself given good educations.
A New Birth Of Freedom - Do We Need One?
- Thread starter MyTeamIsOnTheFloor
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"I didn't follow that passion academically beyond HS,"
There was no need to share that - it's obvious.
Comparatively, it is and has been. Why do you hate history? Why hide history?
My generation went to the moon. Y’all ain’t done shit but bitch and whine.
No, our parents' generation went to the moon while we went to Woodstock.
One reason is that you seem to agree with the view that honest history should cause discomfort. That doesn’t sound like a positive view of history.
I do? I think history is messy. I'm not sure it should cause discomfort. Maybe it should. Discomfort can be a useful thing.
History is complicated, it should produce more than pride. Great things have happened, horrible things have happened. At various times pride, discomfort, and other emotions should apply.
Yes history is messy. If you are uncomfortably cold, you out in a coat. If you are emotionally uncomfortable, you address that. I know people who won’t watch certain kinds of movies because it gives them nightmares. So they avoid them. I see nothing good in teaching history intended to make students uncomfortable. History is history. Why should we ever teach 200 year-old history to make those studying that history today uncomfortable? I’ll tell you why. It’s about perpetuating race and being ashamed to be white. Look at the outrage over the Florida standard about slaves learning a beneficial trade. That’s what I’m talking about. The narrative that history must make students uncomfortable—PERIOD! That’s bullshit on a number of levels. CRT, 1619, the Peoples History, are all intended to amplify historical white atrocities for purposes of bringing that to today. Moreover, we mold and shape history to further this agenda. How many students learn about American Indian Slavery? Slavery is not just a racist thing. How many students that Natives who fought with the French ate captured English soldiers while other English soldiers were made to watch? History is full of atrocities. It’s also dishonest to pick and choose which atrocities to teach. . Let’s confine all of bad stuff to history, and not give it present day relevance . We need to build a cohesive society, not perpetuate divisions while fooling ourselves into believing we are just being honest.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
As some great sage on the basketball board used to say, there is nothing special about the water. We are just as capable of sliding into fascism or communism as any other nation. We are just as capable of becoming a theocracy. Heck, I now hear people suggest that the US needs to carry out a special military operation in Mexico.
I know some people want to teach that their race, their religion, their country, is somehow the savior of humanity. It isn't true.
Meaning what?
I don’t believe that for a nonosecond. Are we capable of those things? My answer today is a little less negative than it would have been 20 years ago. But just as capable as any other nation? Never.
“Savior of humanity“ is your usual over statement. Would you settle for a simple force for good in the world?
Correct for race and religion. I think we could have an interesting debate about country.
Your generation didn't go to the moon. I don't know how you old you are, but you're not in your 90's. You were probably moving your rabbit ears around trying to get a good enough signal so your old man could watch while your mom was making a TV dinner.
My father was PHD from Indiana Dept of Ed in the spring of 68. He started at Kentucky Wesleyan in July of 68. You are a basketball insider, so you surely know the history. So don't start telling me and my brother how we watched the moon landing.
Yes. Kentucky Wesleyan 80 Indiana Law 87. Super smart. You on the other hand are a AAU basketball coach who thinks you can lecture on history.
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Because MTIOTF's generation didn't go to the moon, and I was joking about the scenario I put out there with the antenna and TV dinner. So if you're being serious, I'd remove the stick from your a$$ and...
...quit drinking so much on Sunday nights and go to bed.
I don't know WTF you're talking about. I wasn't replying to you. You interjected. If you have problem have your people contact my people, and I'll handle it the best way I know how.
You are the one who said something disparaging about TV dinners. As for history who made the authors of the 1619 project experts. History has no boundaries.
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Yeah, but not to you. Capeche? Do you represent the TV dinner guild?
No one made Nicole Hannah-Jones out to be an expert, certainly not me. The word I used was 'perspective'.
Eat your TV dinner brownie and go to bed.
Yeah, no. Next time you want to tell me what it "seems" I think, leave the paranoid delusions behind. Thanks.
I apologize. That post just did not seem up to your usual standard of clear, concise use of language.
Carry on.
In talking about our family history with my Niece, I opined that my Grandfather may very well have been a member of the Ku Klux Klan.
Upon hearing this it was obvious to me she felt uncomfortable.
In recalling this, I wondered why she felt uncomfortable. I say this because his membership or lack of membership is completely irrelevant to us at this point in time.
When later asking if she was uncomfortable with my thoughts about her Great Grandfather and why. She replied, "I only heard good things about him and this is what I prefer to believe".
As my Sister Harriett would say, 'Believe whatever floats your boat".
My paternal grandfather was definitely a bigot, and at no point was he welcome at any of my coaching/social events (HS graduation, games I coached in). Even though he was a product of his time and upbringing, having him anywhere near my circle was uncomfortable.
CO.H would probably tell me to embrace his bigotry.
If Germans are made to feel sad about the Holocaust, should they stop teaching it? Japanese and Nanking/Korea/Pearl? I seriously doubt anyone who made any of those decisions is still alive.
As to countries, for a long time, Germany won many Nobels in the sciences, and it produced a lot of great musicians and philosophers. Yet she succumbed to the craziness.
The Jacksonville shooter needed better lessons somewhere in his life.
It wasn't all bad. Jews learned some valuable skills developed in blue collar work ethic and how to care for massive amounts of dead people.
Sincerely,
Ron DeSantis
The way you frame the question is the point.
If you want, or need, to feel bad about slavery simply because you are white, more power to you. That’s not for me.
We just need to cut the crap out of this discussion. As you show with your question, the undeniable point now in teaching slavery is to make white people feel bad about slavery and make black people feel like victims of slavery. That’s bad for the students of any color. That’s bad for education. And it’s bad for the country. And that is why so many freaked out about the Florida standard.
Correct. Is that a reason to make Germans today to feel bad about the Holocaust? I Socialize with a German regularly, I wouldn’t dream of putting the burden of the Holocaust on him.
We agree. Do you think if he was made to feel bad about slavery because he is white would be more or less likely to make him a racist?
Guilty as charged. I wrote it in a hurry because I was on the way to something else. I’m an old guy you know.
Everything is . . .ahem . . .nuance. Henry Ford was a racist. Ty Cobb was a racist. Many FF’s owned slaves.. The point is everyone all the time needs to think about people in terms of the totality of their being. I think the same goes for how we teach and learn US history. It seems like we are too focused on the warts. There are many reasons for that. One of those reasons might be a reaction to too much previous emphasis on the goodness. No matter what the reason, I think it’s grossly unfair and bad to impute the racial sins of the past on students today. That is what’s happening as a means to instruct about white supremacy— which is another problem.
You have it bass backwards. I don't want people to feel bad, but there is nothing wrong if someone does. Why should a German born in 2000 feel bad about the Holocaust? They should learn about it, whether they feel bad or not. You want history to be all unicorns and puppies.
I am well aware that one side of my family fought for the CSA. They were poor dirt farmers in Arkansas, no way they owned slaves. I don't in any way feel any blame for their support of the CSA. But I have met a lot of southerners who hold a tremendous pride in their ancestors, no way dear old great grandpappy fought for slavery, and if they owned slaves they treated them perfectly. The idea the war was not over slavery, the whole lost cause myth, is just plain wrong. I am willing to say that, you seem to be afraid to hurt their feelings. I don't want them to feel bad, I want them to see the painfully obvious truth. The war was over slavery, in the secession documents they said so. No one today had anything to do with it, no need to feel bad. Just realized our forebearers are no more perfect angels than we are. That's it. Northerners made a lot of mistakes too. There are religions that practice ancestor worship, very few Americans have that as an excuse.
So much of this crazy "this country has gone to hell" belief is rooted in the idea our ancestors were practically perfect. In reality, they screwed up just like we do. But some of us don't want that part taught. Leading to this illusion.
Unfortunately "freedom", "patriot" and even the flag have been hijacked and weaponized by the least "patriotic" among us.CSPAN3 is running the 2023 Gettysburg College Civil Institute programs.
The linked presentation arises from a well—known book by T. Harry Williams by the same name - Lincoln and His Generals. It generally talks about the relationship with his generals, but among other things, it discusses the idea of Lincoln, then Grant, that you could not win the win war easily, and could not save the Union by just winning the War. You had to crush everything meant by secession, and it’s cause. Only complete military victory AND complete emancipation would give the nation a shot at The New Birth of Freedom that Lincoln posited in the Gettysburg Address.
Lincoln and His Generals
Historians debated the strengths and weaknesses of Union Generals such as George McClellan, Ulysses Grant, Ambrose Burnside, and Joseph Hooker, and how they each interacted with their commander-in-chief Abraham Lincoln. This program was part of Gettysburg College's 2023 Civil War Institute...www.c-span.org
Are we so polarized now that we need another new birth of freedom? A return to one? A new path to a re-United States? A new attempt to make a nation conceived in liberty long endure?
Stuff like this can make you think about stuff like that.
Again, not for the sound-bite class.
We need to reset after trump, RonRon, Biden and their ilk are gone.
We teach about slavery. We teach about Reconstruction. We teach about Jim Crow. We teach about the Klan and lynchings. We teach about the Civil Rights movements - plurals, MLK, SCLS, SNCC, Black Panthers, etc. The only folks who disagree are the Race Hustler’s who make money money by claiming we don’t and by keeping racism alive. The fringe of each (white and black) teach their kids to hate based on race. The rest of us try and judge the content of character.
So why and how are the fringes now driving the society off the edge of a cliff? Because D and R matter more than anything to the Social Media Monster.
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