Zander
- Thread starter RockyMountainHoosier
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ZD has to have been the most under utilized weapon i've ever seen at IU. (and i go back to the dinosaurs).
great "phone booth" quicks, and i never once saw a defender so much as close ground on him once he broke open.
he has a rare Tevin Coleman like bust, that's the difference between a 10-15 yd gain, and a 75 yd gain to the house.
as for QB, impossible for me to ever know how good he could have been, because he never played in an offense that was designed to take advantage of his skills, and this year, when was he ever in for more than a play or 2 at a time. (or even at QB).
he also never had the luxury of playing against lesser opponents to fine tune things, as the only yr he played much, he played against the big boys only, and with an injury depleted supporting cast at that.
as for the NFL, no idea what kind of hands he has, but he has exactly what makes for a great slot receiver as far as a very rare combo of quicks and linear speed. (ARE had better phone booth quicks, but no where near his flat out speed).
that said, i'm guessing he will have many other great opportunities in life, doesn't come from a poor family, so doesn't have to trade his physical future for a financial one, and doesn't need the NFL as some might. (and slot isn't nearly as much fun as QB).
would he feel differently if he thought he had a real shot at starting QB next yr, i know not.
but imo CKW has a certain image of what his QB looks like, and a certain skill set, and he isn't at all comfortable with a different image or skill set as his main guy.
great "phone booth" quicks, and i never once saw a defender so much as close ground on him once he broke open.
he has a rare Tevin Coleman like bust, that's the difference between a 10-15 yd gain, and a 75 yd gain to the house.
as for QB, impossible for me to ever know how good he could have been, because he never played in an offense that was designed to take advantage of his skills, and this year, when was he ever in for more than a play or 2 at a time. (or even at QB).
he also never had the luxury of playing against lesser opponents to fine tune things, as the only yr he played much, he played against the big boys only, and with an injury depleted supporting cast at that.
as for the NFL, no idea what kind of hands he has, but he has exactly what makes for a great slot receiver as far as a very rare combo of quicks and linear speed. (ARE had better phone booth quicks, but no where near his flat out speed).
that said, i'm guessing he will have many other great opportunities in life, doesn't come from a poor family, so doesn't have to trade his physical future for a financial one, and doesn't need the NFL as some might. (and slot isn't nearly as much fun as QB).
would he feel differently if he thought he had a real shot at starting QB next yr, i know not.
but imo CKW has a certain image of what his QB looks like, and a certain skill set, and he isn't at all comfortable with a different image or skill set as his main guy.
I just looked at RL's junior college website showing where their recruits went on to play. Based on that website, in the previous 5 years Cisco College had only sent one other player to an FCS school (Houston) and the other guy did not show up on the Houston roster. So this year has been a very different experience for Lagow.
RL will have 8 months to look at tape of every play and review every decision he made this past season. I have to think that there will be a ton of drills to improve Lagow's progression reads. And the offensive coaches will have the same time to figure out why they had receivers running third down crossing patterns that sometime did not get back to the original line of scrimmage.
IU loses receivers Mitchell Page (5'7") and Ricky Jones (5'10"). But they get back Simmie Cobbs (6'4") and have a slew of tall receivers who gained experience this season. Also Fuchs at tight end will be back.
RL will have 8 months to look at tape of every play and review every decision he made this past season. I have to think that there will be a ton of drills to improve Lagow's progression reads. And the offensive coaches will have the same time to figure out why they had receivers running third down crossing patterns that sometime did not get back to the original line of scrimmage.
IU loses receivers Mitchell Page (5'7") and Ricky Jones (5'10"). But they get back Simmie Cobbs (6'4") and have a slew of tall receivers who gained experience this season. Also Fuchs at tight end will be back.
He was fun to watch, but his size, susceptibility to injury, and average passing skills were negatives. As far as his future in college football was concerned beyond this season, he pretty well expressed himself as opting not to risk concussion, which he had experienced in the past. I wish him well.
Littrell was here for one year, 2012-2013. For the next two years Johns had more of an impact on Sudfeld, developing and polishing him into a pro prospect.
I understand what you are saying that he does make some phenomenal throws and then sometimes throws the ball and your like what are you looking at. I do believe that sometimes arrogance is an issue het I could get away with throw in high school and at junior college. Also very fundamental concepts that you are talking about you run crossing patterns against man cover 2 you look at the corner routes and perhaps a post or skinny post or even a bender. 3 deep seems or underneath perhaps the flats. In college we were a traditional run and shoot team straight from Tiger Ellison book and in listening to Red Faught at Franklin College usually you flood one area of the field and try to put a singular player in a bind. You do a few fundamental concepts that are prevalent throughout most passing systems. Slant/ arrow putting a corner in a bind and not allowing an outside lb to get into a throwing lane. You have your smash route curl flag again if the corner sinks you have the curl and if he squats you have the flag behind. You have wheel routes. You have the NCAA pattern which is dig post which beats man 2 and 3 deep. Is Lagow the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning do agree does he need to value the ball yes and are there times he can thread a needle and other times miss guys wide open yes. Most of the time that he misses it is because he is high. Yes which can mean mechanical issue or sometimes he is too hyped I think another issue he has and is not even keeled. As far as low release point I don't think that is an issue. I think he does have footwork issues and hopefully another spring and summer those can be ironed out. He does try to play too fast. Again I do hope Ramsey or King or Cameron do push him .
I don't think RL has a low release point, I was using that as an example of mechanics that can cause interception issues, just like bad footwork etc.. Here is some highlights of Travis....lowest release for a 6' 7" guy I've ever seen. Many times the ball looks like it doesn't get over his shoulder. Of course, his highlights don't show his high double digit interceptions!
I don't disagree with many of the things pointed out about Richard Lagow, but I guess I see nearly all of them as correctable, and many of them as a result of this being his first year playing football at a high level.
I really don't think the game ever "slowed down" for him this year. Too many things going on.
He comes in January. Spends the Spring working with Cobbs and J-Shun Harris. Harris is out 2 weeks into Fall camp. Cobbs is out after 1 play. He had spent all year getting that all-important timing and familiarity down, then poof - 2 major receivers gone. Now he has Jones coming off a knee, Hale new to the position, Westbrook forced into a lead role. (Thank God Paige stayed healthy.)
IF the run game had the same kind of "big play" ability, maybe it gets slower quicker, but the OL was just not the same. Devine has strength, but not breakaway speed. Fewer holes.
Plus, receivers gotta get open. Quick. The QB has less time than ever in his life to see/throw. You aren't gonna get 2 looks and he can't "throw you open" if you don't have the time together to create that simpatico.
Sooo, its no surprise that pretty soon, a QB is looking at "his guy" early, and maybe early/only. Especially after having to manage a play clock while we set, look, re-set, maybe audible again, etc. Our offensive PLAYS are not complicated, but our offense SYSTEM - how we call plays, when we call plays, how/when we change them - is complicated. Takes a while to juggle all those tasks. Throwin is just one thing.
Lagow has a gun - no doubt. With timing down, he can hit a very small window in the red zone. (Hell, he can throw a ball hard enough to break fingers and ribs!) He can also throw to the far side.
But he has a weird wobble sometimes on longer throws - seems like the ball doesn't always come out clean, and those are the ones that are underthrown and get picked.
But all that is workable.
This was his first year.
I expect he gets better.
A lot better.
Once he becomes a better manager of all that - the sooner his arm becomes a better weapon, and the sooner those pick numbers go down.
He has seen the speed of the game now.
He can work at it better.
I really don't think the game ever "slowed down" for him this year. Too many things going on.
He comes in January. Spends the Spring working with Cobbs and J-Shun Harris. Harris is out 2 weeks into Fall camp. Cobbs is out after 1 play. He had spent all year getting that all-important timing and familiarity down, then poof - 2 major receivers gone. Now he has Jones coming off a knee, Hale new to the position, Westbrook forced into a lead role. (Thank God Paige stayed healthy.)
IF the run game had the same kind of "big play" ability, maybe it gets slower quicker, but the OL was just not the same. Devine has strength, but not breakaway speed. Fewer holes.
Plus, receivers gotta get open. Quick. The QB has less time than ever in his life to see/throw. You aren't gonna get 2 looks and he can't "throw you open" if you don't have the time together to create that simpatico.
Sooo, its no surprise that pretty soon, a QB is looking at "his guy" early, and maybe early/only. Especially after having to manage a play clock while we set, look, re-set, maybe audible again, etc. Our offensive PLAYS are not complicated, but our offense SYSTEM - how we call plays, when we call plays, how/when we change them - is complicated. Takes a while to juggle all those tasks. Throwin is just one thing.
Lagow has a gun - no doubt. With timing down, he can hit a very small window in the red zone. (Hell, he can throw a ball hard enough to break fingers and ribs!) He can also throw to the far side.
But he has a weird wobble sometimes on longer throws - seems like the ball doesn't always come out clean, and those are the ones that are underthrown and get picked.
But all that is workable.
This was his first year.
I expect he gets better.
A lot better.
Once he becomes a better manager of all that - the sooner his arm becomes a better weapon, and the sooner those pick numbers go down.
He has seen the speed of the game now.
He can work at it better.
Great thread with lots of valid points about Richard Lagow. I would add that Lagow's passing accuracy is only a half-point from Sudfeld's career stat, many of Lagow's picks were mental and not physical, and Nate was surrounded with special players up front and in skill positions which Lagow did not have. I'm with you MTIOF. I think the staff has a real shot to make him better. It would be useful to get a definitive answer as to how eligibility he has left.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think Lagow probably performed in our offense with all of its other problems and limitations as well as anyone has a right to expect of a new QB. I think he will be markedly improved next year. For all practical purposes he was a freshman this year. And while we all cringed at some of the mistakes, I wonder how we would have reacted had he been an actual freshman. Certainly most of us would not have been openly calling for him to be replaced. We would have much more likely been excited at the potential for improvement and looking forward to him being our guy next season.
Granted, Lagow does not have 3 more years to be our qb. As far as I know, he only has one. And I'm sure the staff had hoped that he would progress a little quicker given that he was older and had a couple of years of jc football. But the truth is that jc ball was closer to high school ball than to P5 FBS football and the adjustment was a little more difficult. That's probably why the Hoosiers were so reluctant to open up the playbook early in the season.
So why did Lagow play instead of Zander or King or Ramsey? My guess is because the staff knew that all of those guys would struggle and Lagow would struggle less because of his experience (however limited) and physical tools. He still gave us the best chance to get to 6 wins and a bowl which was the minimum expectation. I think that even Sudfeld would have had trouble this year matching his production from last year with our losses on the O-line and at receiver and RB.
One thing we know about Wilson - competition at qb is always present. I'm sure if one of the other guys outplays Lagow in the spring and in fall camp then that person will be the starter next fall. In the meantime I expect that a high-character kid like RL will work his arse off between now and then to improve and I look forward to seeing where he can take us. In fact, I would be thrilled if he does get an extra year because I think he can be outstanding for us sooner rather than later.
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