Will Russiagate resemble Watergate or the OJ Trial?

[iu-in-philly]

As the Mueller investigation intensifies, the comparisons to Watergate become unavoidable. But the one factor that made Watergate resolve itself with clear evidence of guilt were "the tapes". Nixon's voice on tape telling Haldeman to get the CIA to tell the FBI to "back off" was the proverbial smoking gun. But if we assume there is a "there" there with Trump-Russia, will the evidence be so indisputable for there to leave little doubt in the minds of the public as to Guilt?

In recent weeks, this investigation has veered off a Watergate track into a OJ trial path. You have a senior investigator in Peter Strzok assuming the Mark Fuhrman role of "crooked cop" whose bias against the accused has led to howls from the present day Johnie Cochrans (Fox News, Nunes, Jordan, Gaetz) of a "tainted" investigation. You can see dividing lines in the public between one side that wants the investigation to continue and to be focused on evidence and not bias, while the other wants it shut down and for the focus to be centered on "institutional bias"...with the FBI in the role of the LAPD. The lines prior were race...the lines now are more party/ideology. Which brings us back to evidence....

Let's say lacking a smoking gun tape, just how high a bar would there need to be for the evidence to be widely accepted as Valid? Let's say Mueller presents evidence of Russian Oligarc financing of Trump International through loans funneled through Duetche Bank. Would paper transaction statements be viewed as just a bloody glove "planted" by biased, swamp-creature, anti-Trump FinCen Investigators? I sense this is one of many reasons Mueller is taking his time. These complex investigations take time...but he knows he has to have "the goods"...and a substantial portion of the population is already in a conspiratorial mood as it relates to his team and their work.

No matter what happens, there will be disbelieving conspiracy-spinning defenders of the administration. The day Nixon resigned, a full 24% of respondents had a favorable view of the Nixon administration. But just how much "dirt" will Mueller have to present to get to that level certainty where only 24% or less are ok with seeing an impeachment or resignation come to fruition? I'm trying to think of the point where even Tucker/Hannity/Ingram would have to raise the white flag on 45, but I don't see it. Has Gaetz/Nunes ever heard of what happened to Earl Landgrebe's political career after '74?

 

[Scheffler90]

Interesting take...and an accurate one concerning the OJ trial and the Trumpsters defense-at-any-cost strategy. My take is that it might not require as much evidence as it took with Nixon to get below 24% given that Nixon won in a colossal landslide AFTER Watergate went down and was starting to bubble around the election. Trump lost the popular vote by 3M and is already around 32% and he hasn't pulled a Saturday Night Massacre yet. Lots more room to crash.

If Bobby Three Sticks brings indictments against Kushner, Don Jr, and others in-and-around the family, it would be devastating and that might force Trump to issue pardons, which will kill his numbers all the more, not to mention pull in more indictments from the state of NY. There don't seem to be many great options available to POTUS. Just a series of incrementally terrible options. It's just a matter of which ones he uses and when.

Good post!

 

[Optimist13]

Trump will commit obstruction of justice to prevent his SIL from being charged with a crime if he has not already commited the felony.

 

[Lucy01]

Trump will commit obstruction of justice to prevent his SIL from being charged with a crime if he has not already commited the felony.

You are full of fantasies with no truth to back them up with.

 

[Optimist13]

We will see what hsppens.

 

[PurdueTiger]

Interesting take...and an accurate one concerning the OJ trial and the Trumpsters defense-at-any-cost strategy. My take is that it might not require as much evidence as it took with Nixon to get below 24% given that Nixon won in a colossal landslide AFTER Watergate went down and was starting to bubble around the election. Trump lost the popular vote by 3M and is already around 32% and he hasn't pulled a Saturday Night Massacre yet. Lots more room to crash.

If Bobby Three Sticks brings indictments against Kushner, Don Jr, and others in-and-around the family, it would be devastating and that might force Trump to issue pardons, which will kill his numbers all the more, not to mention pull in more indictments from the state of NY. There don't seem to be many great options available to POTUS. Just a series of incrementally terrible options. It's just a matter of which ones he uses and when.

Good post!

Nobody talked very much about Watergate until the late winter,early spring of 1973 when the Senate Committee led by Sam Ervin started to investigate it.When the election of 1972 took place,it wasn't an issue that I can recall anyone talking about.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

When we have a single shred of evidence there was collusion of any kind things will heat up. So far ZERO,ZILCH NADA. It is a left wing fantasy daily orgasm at this juncture. But at least they get to live with some hope as long as it continues. Things may well turn in a direction they never dreamed of. The dirty dossier may be a heart breaker for dems when the truth and facts are released. In fact i would say at this point the dems have more problems than DT.

 

[Timmy!]

There's no way you're this delusional. There's just no way. No evidence of collusion?? The Dems have more problems than Trump you say?? Both claims are laughable. And as for the "dirty dossier", despite the false claims that's being espoused by the Fox, Limbaugh and that ilk (aka your folk), a very healthy amount that dossier has already been corroborated. I mean, cognitive dissonance is a real thing and all, but it would require one to possess an extreme amount of it to be this dismissive of the reality that exists for Donald Trump along with the reality as to what is and always has been Trump's modus operandi.

Here's the cold hard reality for you: there's a mountain of circumstantial evidence that exists today that would suggest collusion amongst a number of other nefarious and/or criminal actions by Trump and his associates (and a lot more than just circumstantial evidence as it pertains to things such as obstruction of justice, et al.), just 7 + months into a full blown investigation; an investigation, mind you, that's being held on numerous fronts and that is being conducted by the best, most resolute justice investigators and finest prosecutors the world has to offer.

More reality: Furthermore, this is all going against an individual in Trump whom, up until now, had been able to comport himself and conduct business in his morally bankrupt, criminal ways, as a private citizen running his private businesses in an unimpeded and unchallenged capacity....but was idiotically brash enough to expose himself and his egregiously flagrant criminality to the world's largest stage, beneath the world's largest spot light, the Presidency of the United States.

Bottom line is this: no matter what you think you've convinced yourself, no matter what you truly believe in your heart of hearts, the Donald is as dirty as they come, he's smothered in criminal activity, and in all likelihood, your boy is going down and he's going down hard. As Ke$ha would like to say/sing...It's going down, I'm yelling timberrrrrr.

 

[DrHoops]

Boom! Papadopoulos boasted about Russia hacking DNC servers in March of 2016 and bragged about it during a drunken night out with an Australian diplomat. The diplomat alerted the Australian IC, and they notified the U.S. intelligence community.

You don't seem to be able to see this thing unraveling right in front of your eyes. Four members of Trump's team have been indicted already. They haven't stopped yet. In fact the investigation seems to be picking up steam.

When we have a single shred of evidence there was collusion of any kind things will heat up. So far ZERO,ZILCH NADA. It is a left wing fantasy daily orgasm at this juncture. But at least they get to live with some hope as long as it continues. Things may well turn in a direction they never dreamed of. The dirty dossier may be a heart breaker for dems when the truth and facts are released. In fact i would say at this point the dems have more problems than DT.

 

[sglowrider]

When we have a single shred of evidence there was collusion of any kind things will heat up. So far ZERO,ZILCH NADA. It is a left wing fantasy daily orgasm at this juncture. But at least they get to live with some hope as long as it continues. Things may well turn in a direction they never dreamed of. The dirty dossier may be a heart breaker for dems when the truth and facts are released. In fact i would say at this point the dems have more problems than DT.

 

[sglowrider]

Boom! Papadopoulos boasted about Russia hacking DNC servers in March of 2016 and bragged about it during a drunken night out with an Australian diplomat. The diplomat alerted the Australian IC, and they notified the U.S. intelligence community.

You don't seem to be able to see this thing unraveling right in front off your eyes. Four members of Trump's team have been indicted already. They haven't stopped yet. In fact the investigation seems to be picking up steam.

I suspect IUBBALLAWOL was one of the last few holdouts in the Flat World Society too.

 

[DrHoops]

He's currently gets around by horse and buggy. He's still not sure about the potential of the horseless carriage!

I suspect IUBBALLAWOL was one of the last few holdouts in the Flat World Society too.

 

[sglowrider]

He's currently gets around by horse and buggy. He's still not sure about the potential of the horseless carriage!

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

It's going down, I'm yelling timberrrrrr.

I just picture you standing there, looking up, mouth draped wide open, red plaid hat with built in ear muffs and a balloon over your head that reads "Why isn't this thing falling already!".... Starving, cold and not able to remember the direction home. You poor soul. You almost got it!

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

When we have a single shred of evidence there was collusion of any kind things will heat up. So far ZERO,ZILCH NADA. It is a left wing fantasy daily orgasm at this juncture. But at least they get to live with some hope as long as it continues. Things may well turn in a direction they never dreamed of. The dirty dossier may be a heart breaker for dems when the truth and facts are released. In fact i would say at this point the dems have more problems than DT.

Mueller has gotten more indictments and guilty pleas in 8 months than republicans got in years of multiple investigations and hearings regarding Hillary. I completely understand why you want the investigation ended before it gets too far up the chain.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

I suspect IUBBALLAWOL was one of the last few holdouts in the Flat World Society too.

When you’re the founder it’s not cool to quit before everyone else.

 

[sglowrider]

I just picture you standing there, looking up, mouth draped wide open, red plaid hat with built in ear muffs and a balloon over your head that reads "Why isn't this thing falling already!".... Starving, cold and not able to remember the direction home. You poor soul. You almost got it!

Yah right... Mueller was appointed only 23rd May 2017. Seven months. Something this complex and you think its a weekend job?
Don't be so naive.

Divorces can take longer than this.

 

[wiede]

When we have a single shred of evidence there was collusion of any kind things will heat up. So far ZERO,ZILCH NADA. It is a left wing fantasy daily orgasm at this juncture. But at least they get to live with some hope as long as it continues. Things may well turn in a direction they never dreamed of. The dirty dossier may be a heart breaker for dems when the truth and facts are released. In fact i would say at this point the dems have more problems than DT.

If they didn’t collide, they sure as hell tried REALLY hard to collude. They were incompetent, but not that damn incompetent. The Russians had them as targets for years, and weren’t going to stop trying to collude at the last minute. Remember, blackmail is a classic Russian espionage technique. They now have the Trump campaign by the short hairs, because they have all the evidence for collusion (or attempted collusion).

Why do you think that Trump NEVER says a bad word about Putin or anything Russian related? And wanted to unilaterally drop sanctions AND give them their confiscated centers in the US back. Given his penchant for attacking everyone, this behavior stands out as very, very odd. Pit simply, it doesn’t happen without some other reason.

Besides, the intent behind attempt and completion is exactly the same. It’s air right that DJTjr. Actually at least attempted to collude. And there’s loads of other secret meetings/secret back channel talk/disappearing message apps that show attempted collusion.

You’re completely ignoring the facts of what has been reported so far. Are you one of the 33% or so that doesn’t believe in the reports to date? The volume of information has been astounding, and the error rate so far is pretty damn low, given the volume. Plus, these guys know how important it is to get this right- because Trump has attempted to tear them down with every chance he has.

Isn’t the intent behind collusion and attempted collusion exactly the same? It’s ok with you that the campaign either attempted to collude or did collude with a hostile foreign government?

That sure as hell isnt right with me. No matter which party did it. If this is allowed to go unchecked, what’s next?

Finding out whether they actually colluded is really important. But the fact remains- they really WANTED to collude. Whether they actually did or not isn’t as material, IMO.

And yes, I know, there’s no LEGAL violation for collusion. But there are a host of other possible legal violations connected to collusion. AND, impeachment isn’t based on law. Don’t ever forget that part of the equation.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

If they didn’t collide, they sure as hell tried REALLY hard to collude. They were incompetent, but not that damn incompetent. The Russians had them as targets for years, and weren’t going to stop trying to collude at the last minute. Remember, blackmail is a classic Russian espionage technique. They now have the Trump campaign by the short hairs, because they have all the evidence for collusion (or attempted collusion).

Why do you think that Trump NEVER says a bad word about Putin or anything Russian related? And wanted to unilaterally drop sanctions AND give them their confiscated centers in the US back. Given his penchant for attacking everyone, this behavior stands out as very, very odd. Pit simply, it doesn’t happen without some other reason.

Besides, the intent behind attempt and completion is exactly the same. It’s air right that DJTjr. Actually at least attempted to collude. And there’s loads of other secret meetings/secret back channel talk/disappearing message apps that show attempted collusion.

You’re completely ignoring the facts of what has been reported so far. Are you one of the 33% or so that doesn’t believe in the reports to date? The volume of information has been astounding, and the error rate so far is pretty damn low, given the volume. Plus, these guys know how important it is to get this right- because Trump has attempted to tear them down with every chance he has.

Isn’t the intent behind collusion and attempted collusion exactly the same? It’s ok with you that the campaign either attempted to collude or did collude with a hostile foreign government?

That sure as hell isnt right with me. No matter which party did it. If this is allowed to go unchecked, what’s next?

Finding out whether they actually colluded is really important. But the fact remains- they really WANTED to collude. Whether they actually did or not isn’t as material, IMO.

And yes, I know, there’s no LEGAL violation for collusion. But there are a host of other possible legal violations connected to collusion. AND, impeachment isn’t based on law. Don’t ever forget that part of the equation.

I have no idea what Mueller has and doesn’t have regarding Trump. What I’m willing to bet is that Mueller won’t attempt to indict a sitting president without enough potential charges and evidence to plug up the Potomac. Or he could be waiting to build up enough evidence that even a republican controlled congress can’t ignore it.

 

[meridian]

I suspect IUBBALLAWOL was one of the last few holdouts in the Flat World Society too.

Really? No wonder he sounds like a man from the 14th century!

 

[i'vegotwinners]

As the Mueller investigation intensifies, the comparisons to Watergate become unavoidable. But the one factor that made Watergate resolve itself with clear evidence of guilt were "the tapes". Nixon's voice on tape telling Haldeman to get the CIA to tell the FBI to "back off" was the proverbial smoking gun. But if we assume there is a "there" there with Trump-Russia, will the evidence be so indisputable for there to leave little doubt in the minds of the public as to Guilt?

In recent weeks, this investigation has veered off a Watergate track into a OJ trial path. You have a senior investigator in Peter Strzok assuming the Mark Fuhrman role of "crooked cop" whose bias against the accused has led to howls from the present day Johnie Cochrans (Fox News, Nunes, Jordan, Gaetz) of a "tainted" investigation. You can see dividing lines in the public between one side that wants the investigation to continue and to be focused on evidence and not bias, while the other wants it shut down and for the focus to be centered on "institutional bias"...with the FBI in the role of the LAPD. The lines prior were race...the lines now are more party/ideology. Which brings us back to evidence....

Let's say lacking a smoking gun tape, just how high a bar would there need to be for the evidence to be widely accepted as Valid? Let's say Mueller presents evidence of Russian Oligarc financing of Trump International through loans funneled through Duetche Bank. Would paper transaction statements be viewed as just a bloody glove "planted" by biased, swamp-creature, anti-Trump FinCen Investigators? I sense this is one of many reasons Mueller is taking his time. These complex investigations take time...but he knows he has to have "the goods"...and a substantial portion of the population is already in a conspiratorial mood as it relates to his team and their work.

No matter what happens, there will be disbelieving conspiracy-spinning defenders of the administration. The day Nixon resigned, a full 24% of respondents had a favorable view of the Nixon administration. But just how much "dirt" will Mueller have to present to get to that level certainty where only 24% or less are ok with seeing an impeachment or resignation come to fruition? I'm trying to think of the point where even Tucker/Hannity/Ingram would have to raise the white flag on 45, but I don't see it. Has Gaetz/Nunes ever heard of what happened to Earl Landgrebe's political career after '74?

of course Russia meddled, DUH.

they will always care who wins, will always meddle, as will and as have the rest of the industrial world, not to mention Israel.

and the rest of the world are also rans compared to the US when it comes to meddling.

we meddle with everybody. we're the greatest meddlers ever.

so just what exactly are the Dems hoping to prove?

that Trump is a Russian plant?

if the DNC had Russian supplied dirt on a GOP opponent, (or even a non "slated" Dem contender who wasn't the Wall Street pick for the Dems), no doubt they'd use it in a second.

"Russia" as the main strategy for the Dems is a losing one.

the people want someone who will support them, not Wall Street and the rich.

Trump won just by pretending to be for the working class.

in 2020, who the Dem party wants will not be who the liberal voters want.

will be interesting to see if the Dem party can over power the grass roots again, or if the Dem voters have learned their lesson and say FU to the moneyed interests controlled party leadership and money.

working class vs investment class is the new divide, and that divide isn't defined as just Dem vs GOP anymore.

hopefully just being the lesser of the evils, won't be good enough for liberal voters in the future.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Mueller has gotten more indictments and guilty pleas in 8 months than republicans got in years of multiple investigations and hearings regarding Hillary. I completely understand why you want the investigation ended before it gets too far up the chain.

The Whitewater investigations resulted in 16 convictions. I realize your primary (essentially only) talking point here is “Republicans bad, Democrats good,” repeated in a variety of incredibly witless snarky ways, but at least check your supporting “facts.”

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

of course Russia meddled, DUH.

they will always care who wins, will always meddle, as will and as have the rest of the industrial world, not to mention Israel.

and the rest of the world are also rans compared to the US when it comes to meddling.

we meddle with everybody. we're the greatest meddlers ever.

so just what exactly are the Dems hoping to prove?

that Trump is a Russian plant?

if the DNC had Russian supplied dirt on a GOP opponent, (or even a non "slated" Dem contender who wasn't the Wall Street pick for the Dems), no doubt they'd use it in a second.

"Russia" as the main strategy for the Dems is a losing one.

the people want someone who will support them, not Wall Street and the rich.

Trump won just by pretending to be for the working class.

in 2020, who the Dem party wants will not be who the liberal voters want.

will be interesting to see if the Dem party can over power the grass roots again, or if the Dem voters have learned their lesson and say FU to the moneyed interests controlled party leadership and money.

working class vs investment class is the new divide, and that divide isn't defined as just Dem vs GOP anymore.

hopefully just being the lesser of the evils, won't be good enough for liberal voters in the future.

What? New year’s resolution for you - learn to post like a semi-educated adult.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

If they didn’t collide, they sure as hell tried REALLY hard to collude. They were incompetent, but not that damn incompetent. The Russians had them as targets for years, and weren’t going to stop trying to collude at the last minute. Remember, blackmail is a classic Russian espionage technique. They now have the Trump campaign by the short hairs, because they have all the evidence for collusion (or attempted collusion).

Why do you think that Trump NEVER says a bad word about Putin or anything Russian related? And wanted to unilaterally drop sanctions AND give them their confiscated centers in the US back. Given his penchant for attacking everyone, this behavior stands out as very, very odd. Pit simply, it doesn’t happen without some other reason.

Besides, the intent behind attempt and completion is exactly the same. It’s air right that DJTjr. Actually at least attempted to collude. And there’s loads of other secret meetings/secret back channel talk/disappearing message apps that show attempted collusion.

You’re completely ignoring the facts of what has been reported so far. Are you one of the 33% or so that doesn’t believe in the reports to date? The volume of information has been astounding, and the error rate so far is pretty damn low, given the volume. Plus, these guys know how important it is to get this right- because Trump has attempted to tear them down with every chance he has.

Isn’t the intent behind collusion and attempted collusion exactly the same? It’s ok with you that the campaign either attempted to collude or did collude with a hostile foreign government?

That sure as hell isnt right with me. No matter which party did it. If this is allowed to go unchecked, what’s next?

Finding out whether they actually colluded is really important. But the fact remains- they really WANTED to collude. Whether they actually did or not isn’t as material, IMO.

And yes, I know, there’s no LEGAL violation for collusion. But there are a host of other possible legal violations connected to collusion. AND, impeachment isn’t based on law. Don’t ever forget that part of the equation.

Trump is a scum bucket. Is there a legal charge for that?

 

[wiede]

Trump is a scum bucket. Is there a legal charge for that?

Unfortunately, no. Yet, there wouldn’t be much of a pool of politicians left if that were a charge, right?

Mueller knows that impeachment is always first and foremost a political thing. And, the odds aren’t good for charges to be brought (and stick in the senate), unless he’s got “the goods”.

I suspect he’s a bit overwhelmed at times at the possibilities and avenues that have opened up. Especially on the financial side, it’s a tangled mess of information. I still think it’ll be the financial side that torpedoes Trump. It appears as if they colluded re: micro targeting potential Trump voters in swing states via social media, but Trump’s reputation as the real estate guy to the money launderers will ultimately be the thing that is easier to show and will do him in.

 

[Lucy01]

Unfortunately, no. Yet, there wouldn’t be much of a pool of politicians left if that were a charge, right?

Mueller knows that impeachment is always first and foremost a political thing. And, the odds aren’t good for charges to be brought (and stick in the senate), unless he’s got “the goods”.

I suspect he’s a bit overwhelmed at times at the possibilities and avenues that have opened up. Especially on the financial side, it’s a tangled mess of information. I still think it’ll be the financial side that torpedoes Trump. It appears as if they colluded re: micro targeting potential Trump voters in swing states via social media, but Trump’s reputation as the real estate guy to the money launderers will ultimately be the thing that is easier to show and will do him in.

Your post is some more wishful thinking.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Unfortunately, no. Yet, there wouldn’t be much of a pool of politicians left if that were a charge, right?

Mueller knows that impeachment is always first and foremost a political thing. And, the odds aren’t good for charges to be brought (and stick in the senate), unless he’s got “the goods”.

I suspect he’s a bit overwhelmed at times at the possibilities and avenues that have opened up. Especially on the financial side, it’s a tangled mess of information. I still think it’ll be the financial side that torpedoes Trump. It appears as if they colluded re: micro targeting potential Trump voters in swing states via social media, but Trump’s reputation as the real estate guy to the money launderers will ultimately be the thing that is easier to show and will do him in.

Mueller has to have enough evidence even a republican congress can’t ignore it. Even the ones who participated in the North-Korean-Dear-Leader style praise session after the tax bill. It’ll take a lot to get those spineless suck ups to impeach the republican party leader, err, Dear Leader.

 

[UncleMark]

Mueller has to have enough evidence even a republican congress can’t ignore it. Even the ones who participated in the North-Korean-Dear-Leader style praise session after the tax bill. It’ll take a lot to get those spineless suck ups to impeach the republican party leader, err, Dear Leader.

Impeachment will never get off the ground in a Republican House. I don't care how many smoking guns they find.

 

[hoosboot]

The Whitewater investigations resulted in 16 convictions. I realize your primary (essentially only) talking point here is “Republicans bad, Democrats good,” repeated in a variety of incredibly witless snarky ways, but at least check your supporting “facts.”

I'm confused at how your post contradicts the "facts" of his post.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I'm confused at how your post contradicts the "facts" of his post.

Then you didn’t read his post.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Impeachment will never get off the ground in a Republican House. I don't care how many smoking guns they find.

Sometimes I forget about the fact inoculation that party has had.

 

[UncleMark]

Sometimes I forget about the fact inoculation that party has had.

It would only mean the pattern holds true. Nixon had articles of impeachment voted out of committee in a Democrat House, and Clinton was impeached by a Republican House.

That's why it's critical that the Dems take the House in 2018. It would be nice if they got the Senate, but without the House there's no hope of forcing Trump out.

 

[sglowrider]

What? New year’s resolution for you - learn to post like a semi-educated adult.

Gee Aloha...

a tad mean-spirited!

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Gee Aloha...

a tad mean-spirited!

Think so? OK.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

It would only mean the pattern holds true. Nixon had articles of impeachment voted out of committee in a Democrat House, and Clinton was impeached by a Republican House.

That's why it's critical that the Dems take the House in 2018. It would be nice if they got the Senate, but without the House there's no hope of forcing Trump out.

Could be. I’d bet on democrats impeaching a member of their own party before republicans. In the past year (give or take) republicans have elected a self admitted sexual assaulter and endorsed an accused child molester.

The thing with the senate is you need 2/3 to convict and remove from office. Most senate seats up in ‘18 are already democratic.

 

[hoosboot]

Then you didn’t read his post.

I did. And I read yours. It didn't make sense to me, which is why I responded. Glad I could clear all of this up for you so that now you can explain it.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Unfortunately, no. Yet, there wouldn’t be much of a pool of politicians left if that were a charge, right?

Mueller knows that impeachment is always first and foremost a political thing. And, the odds aren’t good for charges to be brought (and stick in the senate), unless he’s got “the goods”.

I suspect he’s a bit overwhelmed at times at the possibilities and avenues that have opened up. Especially on the financial side, it’s a tangled mess of information. I still think it’ll be the financial side that torpedoes Trump. It appears as if they colluded re: micro targeting potential Trump voters in swing states via social media, but Trump’s reputation as the real estate guy to the money launderers will ultimately be the thing that is easier to show and will do him in.

impeaching Trump is the stupidest thing the Dems could every do.

absent you get him dead to rights on something everybody is disgusted by, he'd just become a martyr, Pence would become prez, the right would become more motivated and reinvigorated, the left would gain absolutely noting but a moral victory, and if you do have irrefutable really good stuff on him, better to use that against him next election.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I did. And I read yours. It didn't make sense to me, which is why I responded. Glad I could clear all of this up for you so that now you can explain it.

Incredible. He said the Clinton investigations (Whitewater, etc., which included HRC as a subject of investigation) resulted in no indictments while the Mueller investigation has (specifically he claimed more indictments in 8 months). There were 16 convictions that resulted from the Clinton investigations. Convictions follow indictments. Obviously, his cited “fact” was wrong. Seriously, you must be kidding that you didn’t get that.

 

[MrBing]

As the Mueller investigation intensifies, the comparisons to Watergate become unavoidable. But the one factor that made Watergate resolve itself with clear evidence of guilt were "the tapes". Nixon's voice on tape telling Haldeman to get the CIA to tell the FBI to "back off" was the proverbial smoking gun. But if we assume there is a "there" there with Trump-Russia, will the evidence be so indisputable for there to leave little doubt in the minds of the public as to Guilt?

In recent weeks, this investigation has veered off a Watergate track into a OJ trial path. You have a senior investigator in Peter Strzok assuming the Mark Fuhrman role of "crooked cop" whose bias against the accused has led to howls from the present day Johnie Cochrans (Fox News, Nunes, Jordan, Gaetz) of a "tainted" investigation. You can see dividing lines in the public between one side that wants the investigation to continue and to be focused on evidence and not bias, while the other wants it shut down and for the focus to be centered on "institutional bias"...with the FBI in the role of the LAPD. The lines prior were race...the lines now are more party/ideology. Which brings us back to evidence....

Let's say lacking a smoking gun tape, just how high a bar would there need to be for the evidence to be widely accepted as Valid? Let's say Mueller presents evidence of Russian Oligarc financing of Trump International through loans funneled through Duetche Bank. Would paper transaction statements be viewed as just a bloody glove "planted" by biased, swamp-creature, anti-Trump FinCen Investigators? I sense this is one of many reasons Mueller is taking his time. These complex investigations take time...but he knows he has to have "the goods"...and a substantial portion of the population is already in a conspiratorial mood as it relates to his team and their work.

No matter what happens, there will be disbelieving conspiracy-spinning defenders of the administration. The day Nixon resigned, a full 24% of respondents had a favorable view of the Nixon administration. But just how much "dirt" will Mueller have to present to get to that level certainty where only 24% or less are ok with seeing an impeachment or resignation come to fruition? I'm trying to think of the point where even Tucker/Hannity/Ingram would have to raise the white flag on 45, but I don't see it. Has Gaetz/Nunes ever heard of what happened to Earl Landgrebe's political career after '74?

I read an article this weekend that theorized that if the internet, social media and Fox News existed during the Nixon scandal that Nixon might have lasted through his whole term. I think there's something to that theory.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

I read an article this weekend that theorized that if the internet, social media and Fox News existed during the Nixon scandal that Nixon might have lasted through his whole term. I think there's something to that theory.

It’s disturbing when you talk to someone about a particular issue and their source is “it was all over Facebook”.