Why I think a coaching change has to be made

IUNorth

All-American
Oct 25, 2002
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From an overall wins and losses/program standards standpoint being a bubble team again should not be acceptable for Indiana basketball.

From the perspective of where our program sits versus our conference peers. I don’t see Archie passing any of the established good coaches like Izzo, Painter, or Gard. One of the reasons I stayed on the Archie train until recently is I thought he and his programs were solid enough to get up on Izzo and Gard’s heels. And to compete well enough with the newer guys to be a top 4-5 conference program year in and year out. That would be good enough I think. But with Howard, Underwood, Paikal, and Holtmans success...I don’t see how Archie lifts us to even top 6-7 anytime soon. And anytime THAT is Indiana’s realistic ceiling forecast for a few years...the coach should be fired. We are still Indiana, if the admin wants to be that is.

From the perspective of basketball philosophies and gameplay issues. His offense is now painfully proven to be mediocre. And worse, now likely turning away the types of recruits any coach will need to compete at the top of the B10. Blue chip perimeter guys saw, or will be told, how his offense largely wasted the talents of Romeo Langford. We have a specific case this past recruiting cycle on how we lost Trey Kaufman, a kid we had very good chances of landing, because of how Archie envisioned using him in his offense. Many blamed it on a comparison with TJD. And I’m sure that’s part of it, but more to the point, it was likely about how TJD is being used at IU, and how that isn’t really appealing to many of today’s top players. And isn’t really helping TJD, or our team, get anywhere nearer their respective goals.

So you have inadequate results versus what should be the expectation...your underperforming many of your direct peers...theirs little prospect for improved performance...and there are fundamental aspects of your program that are broken and don’t appear to being fixed.

Where does that ever equal anything other than termination?
 

HoosierJimbo89

All-American
Nov 27, 2010
6,181
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Historically, IU is the best team in the conference. This is one of the reasons the Big Ten hasn't won a National Championship in 20+ years. If IU isn't challenging for Big Ten titles, NCAA titles, recruiting at the highest level, basically the best team in the conference, there is a problem. Below .500 Big Ten records, not being able to even beat mediocre PU teams at home, maybe squeaking into the NCAA's isn't good enough. One of the most concerning things is Archie's inability to adapt and adjust.

Archie is what he is at this point, and it isn't good enough. It is about W/L's and accomplishments at this point, and the results aren't there. Take him off the mound, put somebody else on it. It doesn't have to be like this, it shouldn't be like this.
 

go_iu

Junior
Feb 22, 2004
1,644
801
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The standard was set at Indiana I expect any coach at minimum to win 20-25 games complete for big ten and national championships.
Yep, anything less than a B10 championship goal every year is unacceptable. It might not always be realistic, but we pay well for that expectation, not hoping to finish with losing records. Do you think any MSU fan thinks that shouldn't be their goal every year. $hit, the NIT may be an unrealistic goal for as long as AM is around. The excuses , bad product, and constant 20 year rebuild are getting old. Help is not on the way, but at least MD delivered of that claim more than AM
 
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SoccerSammy

Senior
Sep 7, 2012
2,185
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Yep, anything less than a B10 championship goal every year is unacceptable. It might not always be realistic, but we pay well for that expectation, not hoping to finish with losing records. Do you think any MSU fan thinks that shouldn't be their goal every year. $hit, the NIT may be an unrealistic goal for as long as AM is around. The excuses , bad product, and constant 20 year rebuild are getting old. Help is not on the way, but at least MD delivered of that claim more than AM
Actually Bracey Wright gives me hives... LOL
 

hickorytree1

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2017
129
134
43
From an overall wins and losses/program standards standpoint being a bubble team again should not be acceptable for Indiana basketball.

From the perspective of where our program sits versus our conference peers. I don’t see Archie passing any of the established good coaches like Izzo, Painter, or Gard. One of the reasons I stayed on the Archie train until recently is I thought he and his programs were solid enough to get up on Izzo and Gard’s heels. And to compete well enough with the newer guys to be a top 4-5 conference program year in and year out. That would be good enough I think. But with Howard, Underwood, Paikal, and Holtmans success...I don’t see how Archie lifts us to even top 6-7 anytime soon. And anytime THAT is Indiana’s realistic ceiling forecast for a few years...the coach should be fired. We are still Indiana, if the admin wants to be that is.

From the perspective of basketball philosophies and gameplay issues. His offense is now painfully proven to be mediocre. And worse, now likely turning away the types of recruits any coach will need to compete at the top of the B10. Blue chip perimeter guys saw, or will be told, how his offense largely wasted the talents of Romeo Langford. We have a specific case this past recruiting cycle on how we lost Trey Kaufman, a kid we had very good chances of landing, because of how Archie envisioned using him in his offense. Many blamed it on a comparison with TJD. And I’m sure that’s part of it, but more to the point, it was likely about how TJD is being used at IU, and how that isn’t really appealing to many of today’s top players. And isn’t really helping TJD, or our team, get anywhere nearer their respective goals.

So you have inadequate results versus what should be the expectation...your underperforming many of your direct peers...theirs little prospect for improved performance...and there are fundamental aspects of your program that are broken and don’t appear to being fixed.

Where does that ever equal anything other than termination?
How should TJD be used?
 

jacksback

Sophomore
Feb 5, 2003
857
311
63
Archie needs to go because in year 4 of his tenure we still suck and are showing no signs of improvement on the court or the recruiting trail. Simple.
 
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IUNorth

All-American
Oct 25, 2002
7,314
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How should TJD be used?
Its difficult to see a National POY candidate and make the case he isn’t being used properly. He’s averaging nearly 20 and 10?! But how he’s getting those numbers is holding him back, and our team as well.

In a nutshell, my opinion is predominately low post positioning and play, with high ball screens as his main opportunity for perimeter play. That would be the best blend of what’s best for TJD and what’s befor IU. Right now, they all to often start him free throw line area, sometimes top of the key. They insert or “post” entry the ball to him there way more than they do any action where he’s actually posting on the block. Then he either hands the ball off to a cutting player, or rips and makes his dribble moves and spin moves to the basket. It’s reasonably effective for TJD, from a stats perspective. But sure as crap isn’t helping his draft stock, or helping our offense as a whole.

The biggest and main problem with this is it clogs the middle of the floor. Which is the beating heartbeat of nearly every efficient offense ever created. Some will say, “we’re getting it to the middle with our best player?! What’s the problem?” The problem is TJD isn’t a great playmaker. He can score for himself. But he isn’t good at reading the defense and deciding where to go. He isn’t a great ball handler or passer either. Our offense would be good with someone like Ben Simmons in TJDs spot. But even there, a very highly rated recruit, that you would think would LOVE to come into that role (Kaufman), saw it and was openly turned off.

The alternative, and probably best option for TJD would have been to force him to play more on the perimeter. Force him to develop an outside shot. Force him to get comfortable handling and passing the ball. His stats would have been much lower. But with his size and athleticism, I’m guessing he’d be a lottery pick candidate this year. Not sure if we’d be better or not as a team from that. Adding another guy out there roaming our perimeter that can’t shoot and isn’t great with the ball would be tough to overcome. But he would be pretty devastating as a dive guy on the boards and off others dumping it down to him on dive cuts. And the benefit of having a more open middle area for our perimeter guys to get into and make plays or kick out or down, would likely outweigh his liabilities out there.

It’s not working though. And it’s holding our program
 

Birnk403

All-Big Ten
Nov 17, 2019
4,046
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Its difficult to see a National POY candidate and make the case he isn’t being used properly. He’s averaging nearly 20 and 10?! But how he’s getting those numbers is holding him back, and our team as well.

In a nutshell, my opinion is predominately low post positioning and play, with high ball screens as his main opportunity for perimeter play. That would be the best blend of what’s best for TJD and what’s befor IU. Right now, they all to often start him free throw line area, sometimes top of the key. They insert or “post” entry the ball to him there way more than they do any action where he’s actually posting on the block. Then he either hands the ball off to a cutting player, or rips and makes his dribble moves and spin moves to the basket. It’s reasonably effective for TJD, from a stats perspective. But sure as crap isn’t helping his draft stock, or helping our offense as a whole.

The biggest and main problem with this is it clogs the middle of the floor. Which is the beating heartbeat of nearly every efficient offense ever created. Some will say, “we’re getting it to the middle with our best player?! What’s the problem?” The problem is TJD isn’t a great playmaker. He can score for himself. But he isn’t good at reading the defense and deciding where to go. He isn’t a great ball handler or passer either. Our offense would be good with someone like Ben Simmons in TJDs spot. But even there, a very highly rated recruit, that you would think would LOVE to come into that role (Kaufman), saw it and was openly turned off.

The alternative, and probably best option for TJD would have been to force him to play more on the perimeter. Force him to develop an outside shot. Force him to get comfortable handling and passing the ball. His stats would have been much lower. But with his size and athleticism, I’m guessing he’d be a lottery pick candidate this year. Not sure if we’d be better or not as a team from that. Adding another guy out there roaming our perimeter that can’t shoot and isn’t great with the ball would be tough to overcome. But he would be pretty devastating as a dive guy on the boards and off others dumping it down to him on dive cuts. And the benefit of having a more open middle area for our perimeter guys to get into and make plays or kick out or down, would likely outweigh his liabilities out there.

It’s not working though. And it’s holding our program
Watching him try to shoot a wide open jumper (that Purdue backed away from him on) from 15 feet was painful, especially for such a good player. He needs 25 more pounds because his pro life will be within 10 feet of the basket . . . If he has a pro life.
 

IUNorth

All-American
Oct 25, 2002
7,314
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Watching him try to shoot a wide open jumper (that Purdue backed away from him on) from 15 feet was painful, especially for such a good player. He needs 25 more pounds because his pro life will be within 10 feet of the basket . . . If he has a pro life.
At this point you might be right. If he had come in and Archie forced him to spend hours upon hours working on his handles and shooting, and followed it up with using him more on the perimeter...I’m guessing he’d be serviceable enough as a spot shooter, and comfortable enough handling the ball that he’d be getting lottery looks. And our team very well might be a lot better for it.

It’s one of the reasons I kinda don’t care if he stays or goes. We aren’t a good team with him. What’s the risk? Maybe it forces Archie to change his offense somehow? If he is gonna be here as long as you think he is, then he has a year or two to reinvent his offensive principles.
 

Birnk403

All-Big Ten
Nov 17, 2019
4,046
2,628
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At this point you might be right. If he had come in and Archie forced him to spend hours upon hours working on his handles and shooting, and followed it up with using him more on the perimeter...I’m guessing he’d be serviceable enough as a spot shooter, and comfortable enough handling the ball that he’d be getting lottery looks. And our team very well might be a lot better for it.

It’s one of the reasons I kinda don’t care if he stays or goes. We aren’t a good team with him. What’s the risk? Maybe it forces Archie to change his offense somehow? If he is gonna be here as long as you think he is, then he has a year or two to reinvent his offensive principles.
His decision should be based on where he’ll develop a “pro game” the best, and I’m not sure that’s at IU. I think Miller uses him correctly, but bigger guys body him, and he’s not an offensive threat outside of five feet. Great kid who is carrying the team, but he’s going to be at a crossroads soon.
 

Columbus-Boiler

Freshman
Jun 6, 2001
573
555
93
His decision should be based on where he’ll develop a “pro game” the best, and I’m not sure that’s at IU. I think Miller uses him correctly, but bigger guys body him, and he’s not an offensive threat outside of five feet. Great kid who is carrying the team, but he’s going to be at a crossroads soon.
Guys his size (he's not tall) either need to be able to shoot from distance in the NBA or are serious, serious top defenders to make the league. He's an exceptional college player though and his inability to get drafted could be good news for IU having him around a couple more years.
 
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cshartle123

Junior
Apr 8, 2016
1,622
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From an overall wins and losses/program standards standpoint being a bubble team again should not be acceptable for Indiana basketball.

From the perspective of where our program sits versus our conference peers. I don’t see Archie passing any of the established good coaches like Izzo, Painter, or Gard. One of the reasons I stayed on the Archie train until recently is I thought he and his programs were solid enough to get up on Izzo and Gard’s heels. And to compete well enough with the newer guys to be a top 4-5 conference program year in and year out. That would be good enough I think. But with Howard, Underwood, Paikal, and Holtmans success...I don’t see how Archie lifts us to even top 6-7 anytime soon. And anytime THAT is Indiana’s realistic ceiling forecast for a few years...the coach should be fired. We are still Indiana, if the admin wants to be that is.

From the perspective of basketball philosophies and gameplay issues. His offense is now painfully proven to be mediocre. And worse, now likely turning away the types of recruits any coach will need to compete at the top of the B10. Blue chip perimeter guys saw, or will be told, how his offense largely wasted the talents of Romeo Langford. We have a specific case this past recruiting cycle on how we lost Trey Kaufman, a kid we had very good chances of landing, because of how Archie envisioned using him in his offense. Many blamed it on a comparison with TJD. And I’m sure that’s part of it, but more to the point, it was likely about how TJD is being used at IU, and how that isn’t really appealing to many of today’s top players. And isn’t really helping TJD, or our team, get anywhere nearer their respective goals.

So you have inadequate results versus what should be the expectation...your underperforming many of your direct peers...theirs little prospect for improved performance...and there are fundamental aspects of your program that are broken and don’t appear to being fixed.

Where does that ever equal anything other than termination?
He’s not getting fired because up to this point, we have steadily improved since the day he got to Bloomington. He may or may not be the next Coach K, but he is consistently moving the needle. As a fan, that’s all I’m looking for after we wasted the last decade on Crean.
 
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IUNorth

All-American
Oct 25, 2002
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He’s not getting fired because up to this point, we have steadily improved since the day he got to Bloomington. He may or may not be the next Coach K, but he is consistently moving the needle. As a fan, that’s all I’m looking for after we wasted the last decade on Crean.
I was with you, warily, but on board with this through the end last year. But seeing Underwood, Howard, Holtman, and Paykel leap frog their programs past Archies last year and this year...and the recruiting issues, that I now think might be systemic because of the system he runs...Im officially off that viewpoint.

Last year we were on the upward trend, but had some guys leaving I thought might help to replace their minutes with better, more rounded, minutes. There was the hope/expectation that Hunter and Phin would be more healthy and much better. And that we had Lander and company coming in to boost our depth, if not push for meaningful, improved minutes.

Basically none of that has happened, outside Trey Galloway getting good PT. But even he’s a guy that is somewhat of an offensive liability.
 

.Gerdis

Senior
Dec 10, 2003
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He may or may not be the next Coach K, but he is consistently moving the needle. As a fan, that’s all I’m looking for after we wasted the last decade on Crean.
I have a feeling there are quite a few people that feel the same way.

season 2 for Archie featured a stretch where we lost 12 of 13.

If that’s improvement, consistently moving the needle as you say, his first season must have been AWFUL. Yet, his first season was the only one where we managed a .500 BT record.

secondly, what’s it say about the improvement from seasons 2 to 3? How could we not be improved over a season where we basically forfeited 12 games?

I know, I know. The big ten is just too hard because teams like Rutgers, PSU and Northwestern are no longer gimme wins.

in any case, consistently moving the needle is great if it is moving at a quick enough pace and the eventual landing place is high enough.

This season isn’t over, but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that we have to show dramatic improvement over last season to call it a success. If this team gets it’s crap together, finishes with a six seed in the tourney or better and makes some noise in the tourney, I’ll feel decent about the program trajectory. If we end up as a bubble team, or worse, that will be a colossal fail, and one that falls on the shoulders of coach Miller.

its season 4. NO EXCUSES.
 
Dec 28, 2015
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Watching him try to shoot a wide open jumper (that Purdue backed away from him on) from 15 feet was painful, especially for such a good player. He needs 25 more pounds because his pro life will be within 10 feet of the basket . . . If he has a pro life.
You noticed that too !!
Very good call...
 
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jacksback

Sophomore
Feb 5, 2003
857
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He’s not getting fired because up to this point, we have steadily improved since the day he got to Bloomington. He may or may not be the next Coach K, but he is consistently moving the needle. As a fan, that’s all I’m looking for after we wasted the last decade on Crean.
Did you really type "we have steadily improved" ??? If this is what you call improvement then we will need anther 100 years to become a top 20 team. Archie isn't recruiting better and may be getting worse as kids see that we aren't good and he has put almost nobody in the NBA. His teams continue to be weak fundamentally. We make the same stupid mistakes and miss free throws now like we have in his entire tenure.
 

Hank Reardon

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jan 12, 2004
19,413
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We aren't who we think we are and haven't been for 25 years. Unless you've got a sure thing on the line...hint, you don't...then you may as well stick with Miller. Swinging and whiffing yet again with another shot in the dark merely adds another 5 or 6 years to the misery. At this point, leave Miller here to see what he can do, and if the Right Guy shows up on the radar then you make the move. But no more blindfolded prayers.
 

go_iu

Junior
Feb 22, 2004
1,644
801
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He’s not getting fired because up to this point, we have steadily improved since the day he got to Bloomington. He may or may not be the next Coach K, but he is consistently moving the needle. As a fan, that’s all I’m looking for after we wasted the last decade on Crean.
No, that's falsehood, this guy makes 3.5M with expectations. They've improved zero. He had a honeymoon, it's over, if you can't get your guys to play good ball in 4 years, we need to move on
 

crazed_hoosier2

Hall of Famer
Mar 28, 2011
11,458
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I'm giving this some more thought -- that is, the timing of a coaching change.

I've been of the mind that we're stuck with Archie through at least next season, mainly for monetary reasons. But that's always been an assumption on my part. I honestly don't know what the athletic department's budget looks like right now (although I assume that Covid has hit it hard). I also don't know what might follow in his place and what those financial implications are.

But if we're going to make a coaching change, I think even in normal circumstances it's best to do it ASAP. Having a lame duck coach isn't good for anybody.

But that becomes even more urgent this year because of the "Wild West" transfer rule. There's no telling just how much roster turnover we're going to be seeing after this season -- whether Archie is retained or not. But, it actually presents an interesting opportunity for us if SD is generally decided that Archie needs to go.
 

cshartle123

Junior
Apr 8, 2016
1,622
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I was with you, warily, but on board with this through the end last year. But seeing Underwood, Howard, Holtman, and Paykel leap frog their programs past Archies last year and this year...and the recruiting issues, that I now think might be systemic because of the system he runs...Im officially off that viewpoint.

Last year we were on the upward trend, but had some guys leaving I thought might help to replace their minutes with better, more rounded, minutes. There was the hope/expectation that Hunter and Phin would be more healthy and much better. And that we had Lander and company coming in to boost our depth, if not push for meaningful, improved minutes.

Basically none of that has happened, outside Trey Galloway getting good PT. But even he’s a guy that is somewhat of an offensive liability.
He flipped the roster from out of state to in state, and our KenPom numbers have improved every year. The next step is to get it rolling. In this conference that means finishing above .500. Last year three teams tied at the top of the conference at 14-6. We were in the tournament finishing 11th. Losing to Purdue was a result of Painter being a 16 year Big Ten coach, and his team played their best game of the year. Like it or not, we are still trying to find our guys and develop our identity. If/when Archie hits a wall, he needs to go.
 

Myhurricane

Recruit
Mar 27, 2016
63
58
18
He flipped the roster from out of state to in state, and our KenPom numbers have improved every year. The next step is to get it rolling. In this conference that means finishing above .500. Last year three teams tied at the top of the conference at 14-6. We were in the tournament finishing 11th. Losing to Purdue was a result of Painter being a 16 year Big Ten coach, and his team played their best game of the year. Like it or not, we are still trying to find our guys and develop our identity. If/when Archie hits a wall, he needs to go.
Sad that fans think this way.
 

Champs1976

Recruit
May 18, 2020
74
87
18
He flipped the roster from out of state to in state, and our KenPom numbers have improved every year. The next step is to get it rolling. In this conference that means finishing above .500. Last year three teams tied at the top of the conference at 14-6. We were in the tournament finishing 11th. Losing to Purdue was a result of Painter being a 16 year Big Ten coach, and his team played their best game of the year. Like it or not, we are still trying to find our guys and develop our identity. If/when Archie hits a wall, he needs to go.
He's hit the wall, time for him to go. Underwood at Illinois hired at the same - U of I is a contender, IU is not.
 
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fkfootball

All-Big Ten
Apr 28, 2014
4,611
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Whether he comes back next year or not, he’s the worst coach in the Big Ten. If Dolson and the Administration at Indiana can’t figure that out, than dont expect Indiana basketball to ever turn around. This is why I wanted Chris Reynolds hired. He would know what to do. But we hired another “Yes Man” for the IU hierarchy.
 

fkfootball

All-Big Ten
Apr 28, 2014
4,611
4,771
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We aren't who we think we are and haven't been for 25 years. Unless you've got a sure thing on the line...hint, you don't...then you may as well stick with Miller. Swinging and whiffing yet again with another shot in the dark merely adds another 5 or 6 years to the misery. At this point, leave Miller here to see what he can do, and if the Right Guy shows up on the radar then you make the move. But no more blindfolded prayers.
I’d take 100 other coaches over this guy. Doesn’t need to be “the right guy.”
 

kkott

Hall of Famer
Oct 26, 2001
15,095
9,058
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He flipped the roster from out of state to in state, and our KenPom numbers have improved every year. The next step is to get it rolling. In this conference that means finishing above .500. Last year three teams tied at the top of the conference at 14-6. We were in the tournament finishing 11th. Losing to Purdue was a result of Painter being a 16 year Big Ten coach, and his team played their best game of the year. Like it or not, we are still trying to find our guys and develop our identity. If/when Archie hits a wall, he needs to go.
He's hit a wall.... it's name is Purdue.

Again, and again, and again.
 

Jg48

Benchwarmer
Mar 28, 2010
314
314
63
Houston, Texas
I have a feeling there are quite a few people that feel the same way.

season 2 for Archie featured a stretch where we lost 12 of 13.

If that’s improvement, consistently moving the needle as you say, his first season must have been AWFUL. Yet, his first season was the only one where we managed a .500 BT record.

secondly, what’s it say about the improvement from seasons 2 to 3? How could we not be improved over a season where we basically forfeited 12 games?

I know, I know. The big ten is just too hard because teams like Rutgers, PSU and Northwestern are no longer gimme wins.

in any case, consistently moving the needle is great if it is moving at a quick enough pace and the eventual landing place is high enough.

This season isn’t over, but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that we have to show dramatic improvement over last season to call it a success. If this team gets it’s crap together, finishes with a six seed in the tourney or better and makes some noise in the tourney, I’ll feel decent about the program trajectory. If we end up as a bubble team, or worse, that will be a colossal fail, and one that falls on the shoulders of coach Miller.

its season 4. NO EXCUSES.
You are right. If you set the standard low enough. It's easy to improve each year. I've seen enough of Archie. He's not the answer. I'm not expecting the second coming of Bob Knight but, we can do much better.
 
Last edited:

VanPastorMan

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2002
14,998
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Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
From an overall wins and losses/program standards standpoint being a bubble team again should not be acceptable for Indiana basketball.

From the perspective of where our program sits versus our conference peers. I don’t see Archie passing any of the established good coaches like Izzo, Painter, or Gard. One of the reasons I stayed on the Archie train until recently is I thought he and his programs were solid enough to get up on Izzo and Gard’s heels. And to compete well enough with the newer guys to be a top 4-5 conference program year in and year out. That would be good enough I think. But with Howard, Underwood, Paikal, and Holtmans success...I don’t see how Archie lifts us to even top 6-7 anytime soon. And anytime THAT is Indiana’s realistic ceiling forecast for a few years...the coach should be fired. We are still Indiana, if the admin wants to be that is.

From the perspective of basketball philosophies and gameplay issues. His offense is now painfully proven to be mediocre. And worse, now likely turning away the types of recruits any coach will need to compete at the top of the B10. Blue chip perimeter guys saw, or will be told, how his offense largely wasted the talents of Romeo Langford. We have a specific case this past recruiting cycle on how we lost Trey Kaufman, a kid we had very good chances of landing, because of how Archie envisioned using him in his offense. Many blamed it on a comparison with TJD. And I’m sure that’s part of it, but more to the point, it was likely about how TJD is being used at IU, and how that isn’t really appealing to many of today’s top players. And isn’t really helping TJD, or our team, get anywhere nearer their respective goals.

So you have inadequate results versus what should be the expectation...your underperforming many of your direct peers...theirs little prospect for improved performance...and there are fundamental aspects of your program that are broken and don’t appear to being fixed.

Where does that ever equal anything other than termination?
I question whether the IU Administration is serious about winning. Is it possible they have either consciously or unconsciously hated RMK's power so much that they don't want to have another coach who has as much? Can we truly say IU is a basketball school anymore? Has Football,Baseball, and Soccer passed it up? If IU was serious about winning they would have gotten a slam dunk hire and don't anyone tell me that Archie was that. Look at Dayton last year. They were a very good team. Perhaps Dayton just wins and it wasn't because Archie was a slam dunk coach. Now, I like Archie personally. I like his no nonsense demeanor. I don't think he is a rotten coach. But if IU wants to be elite again they should part ways with him and get a real slam dunk coach. We need a coach who will bring excitement to the fan base and recruits at a high level. He needs to recruit players with skill sets like shooting and basketball intelligence. We need players who LOVE Indiana and HATE to lose to Purdue.
 

birdforbogey

Junior
Aug 13, 2017
1,950
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I question whether the IU Administration is serious about winning. Is it possible they have either consciously or unconsciously hated RMK's power so much that they don't want to have another coach who has as much? Can we truly say IU is a basketball school anymore? Has Football,Baseball, and Soccer passed it up? If IU was serious about winning they would have gotten a slam dunk hire and don't anyone tell me that Archie was that. Look at Dayton last year. They were a very good team. Perhaps Dayton just wins and it wasn't because Archie was a slam dunk coach. Now, I like Archie personally. I like his no nonsense demeanor. I don't think he is a rotten coach. But if IU wants to be elite again they should part ways with him and get a real slam dunk coach. We need a coach who will bring excitement to the fan base and recruits at a high level.
This x 1000.
 

gator mcCluskey

Sophomore
Dec 9, 2014
819
726
93
Definitely
You’re beclowning yourself here man. I know you sunshine pumpers just can’t help yourselves, but it’s only one game and does not change everything else that has happened up until this point. If they win 5 in a row, then by all means, come back and beat your chest till your heart’s content.
 
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Harpo Marxist

Hall of Famer
Sep 11, 2002
10,400
887
113
We aren't who we think we are and haven't been for 25 years. Unless you've got a sure thing on the line...hint, you don't...then you may as well stick with Miller. Swinging and whiffing yet again with another shot in the dark merely adds another 5 or 6 years to the misery. At this point, leave Miller here to see what he can do, and if the Right Guy shows up on the radar then you make the move. But no more blindfolded prayers.
"At this point, leave Miller here to see what he can do".....Replace "Miller" with "Crean" and its deja vu all over again. With this line of thinking...might as well have kept Crean.
The hires have been marginal....and the results corresponded perfectly.
 

crazed_hoosier2

Hall of Famer
Mar 28, 2011
11,458
3,534
113
You’re beclowning yourself here man. I know you sunshine pumpers just can’t help yourselves, but it’s only one game and does not change everything else that has happened up until this point. If they win 5 in a row, then by all means, come back and beat your chest till your heart’s content.
Yeah, anybody who makes too much out of any one game -- whether it's pumping after a win or dumping after a loss -- is just caught up in the fervor of that moment.
 

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