What if...IU had Hired Jerry Tarkanian instead of Bob Knight...
- Thread starter Pryght
- Start date
very interesting write up. Cannot begin to fathom the perception of IU basketball today if Tark had been running the show. To say it would be different would be a huge understatement. Tark would likely have seen a lot of success but we would not hold any 'holier than thou' thoughts of this program once Tark was through. Probably seen a couple periods of probation....or worse. Tark was a perfect fit for Vegas. But not Bloomington IN.
Wooden probably appreciated Tark’s willingness to look the other way, which Wooden was a master of...
Knight and Tark were good buddies, something that shocked people.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
yeah that friendship always amused me. I think RMK vicariously enjoyed Tark constantly crossing swords with the NCAA ruling class.
I think Tark put Coach Knight onto Dean Garrett if I remember correctly.
If so, how ironic. Might have cost Tark the championship the following season. Dean put up 18 and 11 in that game and played all 40 minutes.
I actually knew Norm, however, his issues were different than Tark’s. You obviously didn’t know that, but that’s not surprising. And then there’s Tate’s Locke . . .
Must be another slow day in Ferguson.
dumb, but just another day for Ordy. Are you going to have another conversation with yourself today? Lol
A little triggered because you didn’t actually know anything about Norm? Or TL? Love it when you try to look informed and then get busted for not knowing anything. The newbie from Ferguson can’t keep up. Again.
well. I knew he existed, so one step ahead of you I guess. Used to see him at Kilroys. I guess all your fake handles will claim to have known him now. Yawn.
You knew nothing about him, as was clear in your post. Funny that you tried to make a point and then got slammed as a phony. Slow day in Ferguson? Still googling Tates Locke? Lol
Wooden was a master of deceit...one of the biggest phonies in college basketball. He coached a relatively long time at UCLA with no great success until he sold his soul to the devil. Wooden wouldn't be in the Coaching HOF today if not for Sam Gilbert's cash incentives stockpiling top recruits to "LaLa Land".
so true. Vitale has raved on the air for years about Wooden and the great UCLA run, but never once willing to admit that there is dirty side to this happy shiny story.
First 13 seasons at UCLA, only made the tourney 3 times (granted, the tourney was much smaller then so getting into the tourney was a real accomplishment). Real success began in the early-mid 1960s, right around the time that Gilbert entered the mix.
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UCLA won their first title with no starter taller than 6-5, and the second with a 6-7 center. Won eight conferences titles before his first NCAA crown while playing in a tiny gym with capacity of less than 2,500. Highest salary in his career was $35,000.
yes this is all spelled out under the "John Wooden' entry in Wikipedia.
Still doesn't dismiss the fact that Wooden and UCLA reached their pinnacle when Gilbert was passing out cars, stereos, apartments, and cash.
don’t forget paying for abortions for players girlfriends
Surely you don’t mean to imply that Wikipedia isn’t an unimpeachable source.
nope, just saying the each fact he listed is found there, almost word for word. And Wooden's salary and UCLA gym capacity wasn't the point. UCLA was dirty. Wooden admitted he looked the other way...'tunnel vision' as he described it. Took no responsibility for Gilbert or his players' actions. Winning tends to do that to some people.
Thank Allah you weren’t saying anything crazy like that.
Moving along ...
Did these “apartments” come with nice views? Because a lot of people in, say, New York or Chicago just have beautiful shots of alleys or the wall of the building next door, you know.
EDIT. Changed “and” to “or” in last sentence.
Just keeping things “fresh” around here, Richie. Somebody’s gotta do the heavy lifting, and it looks like it’s you and me, pal.
From wikipedia, after KAJ's frosh season....
Alcindor had considered transferring to Michigan because of unfulfilled recruiting promises. UCLA player Willie Naulls introduced Alcindor and teammate Lucius Allen to athletic booster Sam Gilbert, who convinced the pair to remain at UCLA.[27]
Covinced $$$$$$
Wikipedia? I know some accept the Gilbert stuff as gospel, but the tie between SG, JW and how that impacted bringing players to Westwood has always been tenuous, at best. Most of the guys who went there would’ve very likely been Bruins anyway, Gilbert or no Gilbert. And assailing the character of Wooden needs just a little proof, don’t you think?
Finally, if JW was such a serial rules violator, why were we trying so hard to hire him, with finances seemingly no object? Doesn’t say much for John Ryan or Bill Orwig, does it (and they were two of the greatest people ever associated with IU)?
that it is my arms and legs are the size of tree trunks from packing this sorry ass board on my back
what I said, wrt Wiki, was that the previous poster's comments came straight from Wiki or a similar source. The comments are virtually word for word. And the comments (gym size, Wooden's max salary) had absolutely nothing to do with clean vs dirty recruiting practices at UCLA.
Wooden said he didn't like the idea of his players being in contact with Gilbert, but ultimately decided that he couldn't control the actions of his players. He later admitted 'tunnel vision' on this issue, but said his conscience was clear on the matter. Judge that however you want. But every time an IU player screws up in public, we pin it on our coach (at least those who are counting the days until that coach is dismissed). Hell most on GBI have convicted CAM of cheating simply because of his brother.
As for whether or not these players would have 'likely' come to UCLA anyway....did you interview each of them and get confirmation? Regardless, it's all hypothetical. Because Gilbert was involved. This was the main reason for RMK's massive distain for Wooden. Questioning the validity in Wooden's innocence in the matter is questioning RMK's own knowledge of the situation. On this topic, I'll place my bets with RMK.
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Again, where’s the proof that this served as a recruiting lure for UCLA? I’m not saying it wasn’t possibly a factory with some, but this is likely more legend and embellishment than actual fact.
As for Wooden, Knight had disdain for JW because JW publicly voiced his opinion that he didn’t agree with BK’s coaching style, and Knight resented the criticism. BK went to OSU and understood the culture that was embedded in any successful collegiate athletic program during that era. If he was was critical of Wooden for that, then he was being hypocritical.
Tark was a brilliant defensive coach too and his great teams were a joy to watch. IU’s win over them in the 87 FF was one of the most entertaining college basketball games of all time.
1981 investigation by the LA Times uncovered a ton of dirty laundry and verified the stories of gifts such as discounted cars loans, stereos, airplane tickets, abortions. Players would hang out and stay at Gilbert's mansion (meaning free food, drink, room, probably more- Walton sitting in a tee pee in Gibert's back yard smoking pot?)- coming from the program's chief booster). 15 yrs worth of dirt. Gilbert was investigated by the Feds for Racketeering and Money Laundering and was indicted along with his son (although indictment occurred at the time of his death). You are questioning the validity of what most consider to be old news. Wooden was guilty of what is now classified as "Lack of Institutional Control".
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the ameba defense....flex zone. Yes that semifinal game was a track meet. IU beat a team that had 2 separate players score 30+ in a game.
TV announcers always liked to mention that UNLV used the Aomeba defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoeba_defense
Bob Knight on John Wooden. Verifying what I previously said.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...hn-wooden-ucla-during-interview-with-joe-buck
Was at the SD that day and had a good seat. They were scary good. Still one of BK’s greatest coaching jobs.
I know what he said, I’m just telling you why he said it. Knight only became angry with Wooden after JW offered a less than flattering assessment of BK’s temperament. Until then, he hadn’t uttered anything about him. Hardly coincidental.
Gilbert wasn’t a great guy, by any definition. You still haven’t shown how he worked with Wooden or how it was used in recruiting. “Most” consider it valid not because they understand the facts or can tie the conduct of Gilbert to Wooden but rather because it’s a convenient narrative that points fingers without actually providing proof. “Lack of Institutional Control” is an NCAA phrase that is employed to underscore both the severity and volume of allegations, not some generic term as you seem to believe.
any proof? or are you on a close personal basis with RMK? earlier you were asking for documented evidence, now you're sharing insight into RMK's deepest inner thoughts. Did he share this with you over dinner?
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