What if...IU had Hired Jerry Tarkanian instead of Bob Knight...

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Gilbert wasn’t a great guy, by any definition. You still haven’t shown how he worked with Wooden or how it was used in recruiting. “Most” consider it valid not because they understand the facts or can tie the conduct of Gilbert to Wooden but rather because it’s a convenient narrative that points fingers without actually providing proof. “Lack of Institutional Control” is an NCAA phrase that is employed to underscore both the severity and volume of allegations, not some generic term as you seem to believe.

Wooden allowed it to go on within his program. He knew, he just turned the other way. I'm not using the phrase generically, but rather specifically to what was going on and Wooden's lack of interest in controlling his program, for the sake of hanging banners and building his legacy.

From the NCAA website:
A lack of institutional control is found when the Committee on Infractions determines that major violations occurred and the institution failed to display: Adequate compliance measures. Appropriate education on those compliance measures.

I believe what was going behind the scenes during the Wooden yrs at UCLA qualifies. When a head coach is aware that a major booster may be committing major violations, and said head coach chooses to look the other way, I would consider that within the descriptions listed above.


btw, when you say "Gilbert wasn't a great guy, by any definition", you mean a criminal, then we have found a common point we can agree upon.

You defend Wooden's legacy like a true Purdue fan. No real IU fan would go to these lengths to dispute these facts. They wouldn't care to. You're the only one on this board fighting for Wooden's clean legacy. I find the position you are taking to be very strange.

 

[hondo314]

You knew nothing about him, as was clear in your post. Funny that you tried to make a point and then got slammed as a phony. Slow day in Ferguson? Still googling Tates Locke? Lol

Anyway, back to your dumb premise. IU fan would be SHOCKED to know BK was friends with Tarkanian despite every IU fan knowing BK hired Ellenberger? Knight only dogged cheaters when he hated the person or their program. But you don't really follow IU basketball so this clearly slipped by you. Weird.

And I'll save you some trouble, Ord! Just copy the below word into your clipboard. This will keep you from having to write it out several dozen times a week.

Ferguson

There! Per usual, you have no idea what you're talking about each time you type it but now you'll have more time to concentrate on being an idiot. Good luck, Ordy!

 

[abraxis]

yes this is all spelled out under the "John Wooden' entry in Wikipedia.

Still doesn't dismiss the fact that Wooden and UCLA reached their pinnacle when Gilbert was passing out cars, stereos, apartments, and cash.

That’s why Knight hated the guy. Coaches know.

 

[Birnk403]

any proof? or are you on a close personal basis with RMK? earlier you were asking for documented evidence, now you're sharing insight into RMK's deepest inner thoughts. Did he share this with you over dinner?

Find all of BK’s comments critical of Wooden before JW spoke poorly of Knight. None exist, for obvious reasons.

 

[Birnk403]

Anyway, back to your dumb premise. IU fan would be SHOCKED to know BK was friends with Tarkanian despite every IU fan knowing BK hired Ellenberger? Knight only dogged cheaters when he hated the person or their program. But you don't really follow IU basketball so this clearly slipped by you. Weird.

And I'll save you some trouble, Ord! Just copy the below word into your clipboard. This will keep you from having to write it out several dozen times a week.

Ferguson

There! Per usual, you have no idea what you're talking about each time you type it but now you'll have more time to concentrate on being an idiot. Good luck, Ordy!

In other words, you were attempting to draw a parallel where none existed. Somehow, you believe Knight liked and condoned cheaters if he liked them? Are you really that stupid? How typical of a moron like you. Thanks for admitting both your insincerity as well as your abject ignorance. Hardly surprising for someone of your ilk (from Ferguson).

 

[Birnk403]

That’s why Knight hated the guy. Coaches know.

You’ve already shown you know little about Knight, so this isn’t surprising.

 

[hondo314]

In other words, you were attempting to draw a parallel where none existed. Somehow, you believe Knight liked and condoned cheaters if he liked them? Are you really that stupid? How typical of a moron like you. Thanks for admitting both your insincerity as well as your abject ignorance. Hardly surprising for someone of your ilk (from Ferguson).

well developed point, Ord!

Ferguson

 

[Birnk403]

well developed point, Ord!

Ferguson

Since you have no understanding of the subject matter, you’re really beyond help. Don’t blame me for your stupidity. That’s typical for Ferguson and the people you’re around, right?

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

dumb, but just another day for Ordy. Are you going to have another conversation with yourself today? Lol

Likely . . . or changes usernames again.

 

[Birnk403]

Likely . . . or changes usernames again.

Nice that you’re here since IU isn’t playing. How come you were so scared to post after games?

 

[hondo314]

Since you have no understanding of the subject matter, you’re really beyond help. Don’t blame me for your stupidity. That’s typical for Ferguson and the people you’re around, right?

Fergzzzzzzz

 

[abraxis]

You’ve already shown you know little about Knight, so this isn’t surprising.

I've read just about everything that's been written about the man since his emergence onto the scene in '71. I'm not saying that makes me an expert, but it certainly formed some opinions along the way. I'll stand by my conviction that Knight didn't go out of his way to praise John Wooden, especially when it became common knowledge that Wooden was a cheat 'in son-of-a-bitch. Knight didn't fancy cheat 'in son-of-a-bitches, at least I know that much.

 

[Birnk403]

Fergzzzzzzz

Slower day in Ferguson?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Find all of BK’s comments critical of Wooden before JW spoke poorly of Knight. None exist, for obvious reasons.

LOL! Typical Binky/Mary/Ord style argument. How about you go find all of BK's comments praising Wooden for the way his program was run before JW spoke poorly of Knight. None exist, for obvious reasons. The primary reason being you're a liar. Tell us again how you've never posted here before November and never had another handle. No one believes you and it's great to see you expose yourself as a laughable cowardly fraud every time you make those claims. Go away, non IU troll boy.

 

[Birnk403]

I've read just about everything that's been written about the man since his emergence onto the scene in '71. I'm not saying that makes me an expert, but it certainly formed some opinions along the way. I'll stand by my conviction that Knight didn't go out of his way to praise John Wooden, especially when it became common knowledge that Wooden was a cheat 'in son-of-a-bitch. Knight didn't fancy cheat 'in son-of-a-bitches, at least I know that much.

No one ever believed you were an expert on Knight, so you needn’t worry about that. And why do you think Knight waited to criticize Wooden, who never was accused of cheating, until JW stated he didn’t care for Knight’s coaching style?

By the way, why do you think Knight employed “cheat’in son-of-a-bitches” if he didn’t fancy them?

 

[Birnk403]

LOL! Typical Binky/Mary/Ord style argument. How about you go find all of BK's comments praising Wooden for the way his program was run before JW spoke poorly of Knight. None exist, for obvious reasons. The primary reason being you're a liar. Tell us again how you've never posted here before November and never had another handle. No one believes you and it's great to see you expose yourself as a laughable cowardly fraud every time you make those claims. Go away, non IU troll boy.

In other words, you’re not able to provide anything that counters what I said, which was absolutely correct. As a result, you try to create a false narrative, thus making you look like an idiot. There’s no bigger fraud here than you. You know nothing about a Knight. You might be the dumbest poster here, and that’s saying a lot. Lol Obviously, you’re still crying about being the bitt of a joke here. So funny that you’re that upset about it. What a wimp.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

In other words, you’re not able to provide anything that counters what I said, which was absolutely correct. As a result, you try to create a false narrative, thus making you look like an idiot. There’s no bigger fraud here than you. You know nothing about a Knight. You might be the dumbest poster here, and that’s saying a lot. Lol Obviously, you’re still crying about being the bitt of a joke here. So funny that you’re that upset about it. What a wimp.

In other words you can't provide any support for anything you said about when Knight became disdainful of Wooden. You don't provide much support for much of what you say. You spend a lot of time denying that you are who everyone knows you are so you obviously want people to believe you're not the same poster. However, you're so dumb you can't create a new persona, new style, new background, no new anything. You use the same words, the same insults, continue the same arguments with the same people, etc. In short, you are dumber than a bag of hammers like Ord, and Mary, and all your other handles were, because you are the same person. That you won't admit what everyone knows makes you a cowardly fraud - a total wimp. Your cowardly trolling act is very amusing. I'm laughing at you right now. I do every time I see your posts, but the board would be far better without you so you can go away little non IU troll boy. We'll laugh at your memory - until you appear yet again exactly as you are now, a cowardly fraud.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Nice that you’re here since IU isn’t playing. How come you were so scared to post after games?

How come you’ve never “had more than one username”, yet claim to have been around forever with a join date of 11/7/2019?

We know why, don’t we Ordy . . .

 

[Birnk403]

In other words you can't provide any support for anything you said about when Knight became disdainful of Wooden. You don't provide much support for much of what you say. You spend a lot of time denying that you are who everyone knows you are so you obviously want people to believe you're not the same poster. However, you're so dumb you can't create a new persona, new style, new background, no new anything. You use the same words, the same insults, continue the same arguments with the same people, etc. In short, you are dumber than a bag of hammers like Ord, and Mary, and all your other handles were, because you are the same person. That you won't admit what everyone knows makes you a cowardly fraud - a total wimp. Your cowardly trolling act is very amusing. I'm laughing at you right now. I do every time I see your posts, but the board would be far better without you so you can go away little non IU troll boy. We'll laugh at your memory - until you appear yet again exactly as you are now, a cowardly fraud.

All you have to do is verify when Knight began to criticize Wooden and you’ll see that I’m right. Someone as dumb as you should still be able to accomplish such a task, though it’s understandable that you’re nonetheless overwhelmed by something like this. Your modest intellect obviously limits you, and your cowardice completely dwarfs whatever initiative you have. It’s that cowardice, which you admitted, that kept you from coming here as the results you predicted for this past season proved to be so nonsensical. It’s what we’ve come to expect from you, however, in that your lack of hoops understanding combined with your relatively brief IU fandom combines to make your prognostications so hilariously unsupported. I love that you’re so intimidated by me, though. It’s a compliment that you allow me to live rent free, forever, in your tiny head. Thank you for your generous hospitality!

 

[Birnk403]

How come you’ve never “had more than one username”, yet claim to have been around forever with a join date of 11/7/2019?

We know why, don’t we Ordy . . .

I’ve been an IU fan for decades, and certainly well before this site existed. That you only equate fandom with the establishment of this site reveals how much of a novice you are. Thanks for acknowledging how little you know and how short your time frame of support. We knew there was a reason for your limited knowledge, which you’ve now admitted. Not surprising that you didn’t know any better.
, and now we know why. Thanks, Tas. We knew you were a fraud.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Tasmanian, all you have to do is verify when Knight began to criticize Wooden and you’ll see that I’m right. Someone as dumb as you should still be able to accomplish such a task, though it’s understandable that you’re nonetheless overwhelmed by something like this. Your modest intellect obviously limits you, and your cowardice completely dwarfs whatever initiative you have. It’s that cowardice, which you admitted, that kept you from coming here as the results you predicted for this past season proved to be so nonsensical. It’s what we’ve come to expect from you, however, in that your lack of hoops understanding combined with your relatively brief IU fandom combines to make your prognostications so hilariously unsupported. I love that you’re so intimidated by me, though. It’s a compliment that you allow me to live rent free, forever, in your tiny head. Thank you for your generous hospitality!

So dumb you don't know who you're replying to, and your post is nonsensical. You're hilarious tonight. Carry on little troll boy!

 

[Birnk403]

So dumb you don't know to whom you're replying. You're hilarious tonight. Carry on little troll boy!

And such a coward that you pussed out and wouldn’t meet me at the Wisconsin game. I knew you would never do it, but was surprised you admitted you were that scared. After how badly you cried and whines about being the butt of a joke, though, I shouldn’t have been surprised at your fear. No chance you ever served with that level of cowardice. It’s like you claiming you followed IU in ‘81 and then you didn’t know basic facts about the tournament run. That happens to liars and frauds like you. Lol

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

And such a coward that you pussed out and wouldn’t meet me at the Wisconsin game. I knew you would never do it, but was surprised you admitted you were that scared. After how badly you cried and whines about being the butt of a joke, though, I shouldn’t have been surprised at your fear. No chance you ever served with that level of cowardice. It’s like you claiming you followed IU in ‘81 and then you didn’t know basic facts about the tournament run. That happens to liars and frauds like you. Lol

Hilarious! Everything in that post is a lie, just as expected from a total fraud. Why did you decline my invitation to meet at the Wisconsin game, by the way? I offered a beer and a laugh. Never mind, you’re a coward as well as a fraud. You’re funny tonight.

 

[Birnk403]

Hilarious! Everything in that post is a lie, just as expected from a total fraud. Why did you decline my invitation to meet at the Wisconsin game, by the way? I offered a beer and a laugh. Never mind, you’re a coward as well as a fraud. You’re funny tonight.

I accepted it, as you well know. There’s no debating that fact. And the minute that I did, you went silent. I even suggested several spots within AH to meet, and you remained silent, even after I followed up several times. Your cowardice was confirmed when you transparently refused to even acknowledge my follow ups. That, plus your incessant whining about being the butt of a joke on an Internet forum, confirmed how weak and totally fraudulent you are. The tough guy image you so desperately sought to perpetuate fell,apart when you snuck away in fear, as you know. And I’ll always make sure you’re reminded of that fact.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I accepted it, as you well know. There’s no debating that fact. And the minute that I did, you went silent. I even suggested several spots within AH to meet, and you remained silent, even after I followed up several times. Your cowardice was confirmed when you transparently refused to even acknowledge my follow ups. That, plus your incessant whining about being the butt of a joke on an Internet forum, confirmed how weak and totally fraudulent you are. The tough guy image you so desperately sought to perpetuate fell,apart when you snuck away in fear, as you know. And I’ll always make sure you’re reminded of that fact.

Wow! Very big lies, even for you. You’re so funny tonight. Do you think a cowardly fraud like you scares anyone? Make me laugh more!

 

[Birnk403]

Wow! Very big lies, even for you. You’re so funny tonight. Do you think a cowardly fraud like you scares anyone? Make me laugh more!

I knew you’d try to skate out of this, just like you did before. I even suggested places to meet, yet you suddenly went silent. I knew all along you’d puss out, since that’s what frauds like you do. You were a coward then and you’re a coward now. And then you started whining and crying about an internet joke that made you look foolish. No chance you ever led anyone.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

All you have to do is verify when Knight began to criticize Wooden and you’ll see that I’m right. Someone as dumb as you should still be able to accomplish such a task, though it’s understandable that you’re nonetheless overwhelmed by something like this. Your modest intellect obviously limits you, and your cowardice completely dwarfs whatever initiative you have. It’s that cowardice, which you admitted, that kept you from coming here as the results you predicted for this past season proved to be so nonsensical. It’s what we’ve come to expect from you, however, in that your lack of hoops understanding combined with your relatively brief IU fandom combines to make your prognostications so hilariously unsupported. I love that you’re so intimidated by me, though. It’s a compliment that you allow me to live rent free, forever, in your tiny head. Thank you for your generous hospitality!

LOL! I see you've edited your posts in a pathetic attempt take out some of the evidence that you had no clue who you were talking to. Here's a clue for you, your post was quoted in my reply to you. You can't change it. You're a real dumpster fire tonight. You're much like your good buddy, and fellow troll Feepaw. You trolls need to stick together.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I knew you’d try to skate out of this, just like you did before. I even suggested places to meet, yet you suddenly went silent. I knew all along you’d puss out, since that’s what frauds like you do. You were a coward then and you’re a coward now. And then you started whining and crying about an internet joke that made you look foolish. No chance you ever led anyone.

You're about to make me bust a gut laughing at you. Like I've told you before, this site has a search feature and you could search and try to provide some evidence of these lies. You know you can't - it doesn't exist. Your style is to tell big lies and then repeat them over and over. Hell, your very presence here is a lie. We all know it, admit it, Mary. You know you won't do that either, and not because it's not true (everyone knows it is), but because you're too cowardly to admit it. Carry on little troll boy.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I did nothing of the sort. As usual, you’re completely unhinged because I’ve once again revealed you to be a dumb ass and a liar. It’s obvious now that you were afraid to meet me at the Wisconsin game, and I’m glad you’re willing to acknowledge your cowardice. It’s a rare occurrence for a fraud like you. You’ve been really off your game since I busted you over the 1981 tournament run. Sorry I had to out you as someone who didn’t know what he was talking about. Try to stop crying about it.

You're a true dumpster fire tonight. You are actually making me laugh out loud at you. Your original post is quoted in my post above. You edited it to take out the evidence that you didn't have a clue who you were responding to. Telling big lies over and over like you do doesn't make them true, but of course you are living a lie so it's to be expected. You're a gutless wonder, Mary. Oh well, once again, I've had my periodic fun with you and I've got other things to do. How about you carry on like usual. I'll read your stuff and laugh later.

 

[Birnk403]

You're a true dumpster fire tonight. You are actually making me laugh out loud at you. Your original post is quoted in my post above. You edited it to take out the evidence that you didn't have a clue who you were responding to. Telling big lies over and over like you do doesn't make them true, but of course you are living a lie so it's to be expected. You're a gutless wonder, Mary. Oh well, once again, I've had my periodic fun with you and I've got other things to do. How about you carry on like usual. I'll read your stuff and laugh later.

After you pointed out my error, I corrected that portion of my post. That’s it. But I completely understand your need to deflect, since I raised the issue of your unwillingness to meet me at the Wisconsin game after extending the invitation. It was an act of pure cowardice, something you demonstrate here on a regular basis. That you were so fearful of following through on your original invitation shows how pathetic and small you are, but you knew you’d never be able to muster the courage to follow through. That’s how tough talking but meek acting people like you behave. You run. You whine. You cry. And you make excuses. You were scared, as you admitted. No chance you ever led anyone. You and I both know that. I do, however, love that I dominate your thoughts. Who knew what catching you lying about what you knew of the ‘81 tournament run would produce? Maybe you should stick to something you actually know next time you want to mess with me.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

After you pointed out my error, I corrected that portion of my post. That’s it. But I completely understand your need to deflect, since I raised the issue of your unwillingness to meet me at the Wisconsin game after extending the invitation. It was an act of pure cowardice, something you demonstrate here on a regular basis. That you were so fearful of following through on your original invitation shows how pathetic and small you are, but you knew you’d never be able to muster the courage to follow through. That’s how tough talking but meek acting people like you behave. You run. You whine. You cry. And you make excuses. You were scared, as you admitted. No chance you ever led anyone. You and I both know that. I do, however, love that I dominate your thoughts. Who knew what catching you lying about what you knew of the ‘81 tournament run would produce? Maybe you should stick to something you actually know next time you want to mess with me.

Big baseless lies, all the time. Pathetic, but hilarious.

Serious question - are you mentally ill? I’ll feel bad for laughing at you if you are.

 

[Birnk403]

Big baseless lies, all the time. Pathetic, but hilarious.

Serious question - are you mentally ill? I’ll feel bad for laughing at you if you are.

You extended the invitation and then you ran away from it. You know it and yet you continue your pathological lying. You’re so lacking in courage, but no one is surprised. So funny that you talk tough but backed away so meekly. You never led anyone, coward.

 

[jet812]

Big baseless lies, all the time. Pathetic, but hilarious.

Serious question - are you mentally ill? I’ll feel bad for laughing at you if you are.

You two complete each other. You are the yin to his yang. There’s really no other explanation for the few of you that continue to litter this board with pissing matches in every thread. You live for these arguments, or else you would put an idiot like that on ignore...pathetic. Have you never heard the adages about arguing with fools?

 

[abraxis]

No one ever believed you were an expert on Knight, so you needn’t worry about that. And why do you think Knight waited to criticize Wooden, who never was accused of cheating, until JW stated he didn’t care for Knight’s coaching style?

By the way, why do you think Knight employed “cheat’in son-of-a-bitches” if he didn’t fancy them?

So you're saying Knight can't dislike a guy until he's criticized by that guy? Wooden HAS been accused of cheating by multiple sources, including former players. Just because a guy isn't convicted in a court of law, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Read OJ's book, "If I Did It" (I can't make this shit up) if you want to see how that one works. Wooden criticized Knight's coaching style because Johnny boy couldn't stand the man. Do you sing in praise of your major competitor in business?

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Find all of BK’s comments critical of Wooden before JW spoke poorly of Knight. None exist, for obvious reasons.

Find any comment from RMK that states the reason for his disdain of Wooden is JW's own criticism of Knight as a coach, and NOT because of the Gilbert involvement in Wooden's program. Let's stick with facts and info that has verifiable sources, not speculation on your part to fit your own narrative. I've sited source material to support my argument. Do you have ANY to support yours?

Waiting.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

You extended the invitation and then you ran away from it. You know it and yet you continue your pathological lying. You’re so lacking in courage, but no one is surprised. So funny that you talk tough but backed away so meekly. You never led anyone, coward.

just what the world needs...more internet tough guys.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But neither are a match for the keyboard. Hiding behind a monitor and mouse, we're all bad asses in our own minds.

 

[Birnk403]

So you're saying Knight can't dislike a guy until he's criticized by that guy? Wooden HAS been accused of cheating by multiple sources, including former players. Just because a guy isn't convicted in a court of law, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Read OJ's book, "If I Did It" (I can't make this shit up) if you want to see how that one works. Wooden criticized Knight's coaching style because Johnny boy couldn't stand the man. Do you sing in praise of your major competitor in business?

Yet BK only criticized JW after Wooden made remarks that Knight found negative. That’s not coincidental to anyone who knows BK. And Wooden has never been accused of cheating, though I’m sure you can list the allegations that he personally violated the rules. You’re going to have a fruitless search.

 

[Birnk403]

just what the world needs...more internet tough guys.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But neither are a match for the keyboard. Hiding behind a monitor and mouse, we're all bad asses in our own minds.

That guy is strange. He talks very tough and then complains when it’s returned. A very typical ITG.

 

[Birnk403]

Find any comment from RMK that states the reason for his disdain of Wooden is JW's own criticism of Knight as a coach, and NOT because of the Gilbert involvement in Wooden's program. Let's stick with facts and info that has verifiable sources, not speculation on your part to fit your own narrative. I've sited source material to support my argument. Do you have ANY to support yours?

Waiting.

Why do you think Knight failed to ever offer criticism of Wooden and the SG angle until JW criticized BK? And it’s “cited”.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Why do you think Knight failed to ever offer criticism of Wooden and the SG angle until JW criticized BK? And it’s “cited”.

Cited where?