What am I missing on MR’s….

[Tscurlo]

5th foul?????

On replay… he clearly fouled the guy.

But then he was complaining to Woody while leaving the floor…. Then while on the bench complaining.

Can anyone here read lips to figure out what MR was saying???

Was it possible that we had fouls to give… and MR thought that they were supposed to foul?

Anyone’s thoughts???

PS: I just got here and haven’t checked a thread for this topic. If it’s covered elsewhere, I’ll come back and delete this topic.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

5th foul?????

On replay… he clearly fouled the guy.

But then he was complaining to Woody while leaving the floor…. Then while on the bench complaining.

Can anyone here read lips to figure out what MR was saying???

Was it possible that we had fouls to give… and MR thought that they were supposed to foul?

Anyone’s thoughts???

PS: I just got here and haven’t checked a thread for this topic. If it’s covered elsewhere, I’ll come back and delete this topic.

I love MR's effort and improved production this year. It's obvious he put in a lot of work over the summer.

That said...in his own mind, he's yet to commit one single foul during his career at IU. And anyone who's played or even watched the game, knows that when you're always whining about fouls, the refs seem to watch you a little closer than the average player. Or at least it seems that way. He needs to stop that.

As for that 5th foul, not sure what he was thinking. A lot of teams do that near the end of the game when they have fouls to give before the bonus...foul during the possession, takes the opponent out of the flow, gives you 20 seconds to breath and get re-positioned on Defense, and milks a little clock. Not sure if that's what he was thinking.

 

[PanDatrick]

It wasn’t that he didn’t think it was a foul. He thought Woody was telling him to foul because they had fouls to give. They were wanting to get them closer to the bonus in case they needed to send them to the line if they lost the lead.

Woodson was upset because while he wanted them to foul. He obviously didn’t want Malik to foul out and be the one to foil. Malik should be smart enough to know that but was saying he was doing what he was told.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

It wasn’t that he didn’t think it was a foul. He thought Woody was telling him to foul because they had fouls to give. They were wanting to get them closer to the bonus in case they needed to send them to the line if they lost the lead.

Woodson was upset because while he wanted them to foul. He obviously didn’t want Malik to foul out and be the one to foil. Malik should be smart enough to know that but was saying he was doing what he was told.

ok makes sense. Yeah no other starters had any fouls while Malik had 4. So....bad execution by everyone.

 

[HoosierAlum07]

MR just has nothing between the ears!

 

[Bucket Getter]

That single play showcased just about perfectly what a poorly coached team looks like. Woodson and his buds on the bench were calling for a foul. Decent strategy. But they’ve somehow never gotten through to their star player (at the end of his second year) that they aren’t actually talking to him. No way in hell did they expect him to just jump up and bear hug the guy at mid court WITH 4 FOULS! The complete lack of any basketball sense on both parties damn near defies logic.

Then MR shows everyone in the joint or watching on TV how exasperated he is with his head coach. And Woodson does the same. Embarrassing to watch. Just glad it didn’t cost them the game.

 

[ams66]

That single play showcased just about perfectly what a poorly coached team looks like. Woodson and his buds on the bench were calling for a foul. Decent strategy. But they’ve somehow never gotten through to their star player (at the end of his second year) that they aren’t actually talking to him. No way in hell did they expect him to just jump up and bear hug the guy at mid court WITH 4 FOULS! The complete lack of any basketball sense on both parties damn near defies logic.

Then MR shows everyone in the joint or watching on TV how exasperated he is with his head coach. And Woodson does the same. Embarrassing to watch. Just glad it didn’t cost them the game.

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

 

[ulrey]

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

Absolutely. How much is he getting paid? That’s leadership..

 

[jet812]

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

Why would any coaches at any level worry about situational awareness?🙄. A good coach gives his team what they need. If Malik needs to be reminded “ hey guys when they get the ball here we’re gonna need a couple of fouls in case we need to put them on the line & stop the clock. Malik, you’ve got 4, so no foul….etc.”. Should he have to tell Malik, no, but again, if he’s failing to recognize that’s what’s needed, makes a lot of sense in the context of his tenure here.

 

[Bucket Getter]

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

It’s kind of obvious, isn’t it?

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

They have to remind guys of all kinds of stuff...even 4th and 5th year players. And I'm not talking just about IU players, either....coaches in general

 

[T.M.P.]

That single play showcased just about perfectly what a poorly coached team looks like.

No it doesn't.

 

[BusdriverE]

I also thought that MR was so they could stop the clock and sub out MM for walker, kinda a defense for offense sub

 

[ams66]

It’s kind of obvious, isn’t it?

Maybe? I would have assumed MR would know coach wasn't asking him to deliberately foul out at a critical point in the game.

I guess MR learned the hard way, anyway. Probably not a mistake he will make again.

 

[Bucket Getter]

No it doesn't.

A 3 worder? Well done. Take a nap now. I’m sure you’re exhausted.

 

[Bucket Getter]

Maybe? I would have assumed MR would know coach wasn't asking him to deliberately foul out at a critical point in the game.

I guess MR learned the hard way, anyway. Probably not a mistake he will make again.

If he does, I’d pull his scholarship. It would indicate either he’s too damn dumb to be a university student or he’s got a secret DraftKings account.

 

[papawboog]

Maybe? I would have assumed MR would know coach wasn't asking him to deliberately foul out at a critical point in the game.

I guess MR learned the hard way, anyway. Probably not a mistake he will make again.

You know what they say about "ass-u-me". I can see how a player in the heat of the battle hears his coach yelling "foul" and does as his coach says not realizing he has 4 fouls or that the coach meant anyone. I've seen it happen more than once. I agree with the poster that said the coaches should have told MR that he had 4 fouls & for him not to foul. It would have been worse if there was more time on the clock.

 

[ams66]

You know what they say about "ass-u-me". I can see how a player in the heat of the battle hears his coach yelling "foul" and does as his coach says not realizing he has 4 fouls or that the coach meant anyone. I've seen it happen more than once. I agree with the poster that said the coaches should have told MR that he had 4 fouls & for him not to foul. It would have been worse if there was more time on the clock.

Yeah I guess that's safest, but I would think a player would know and be expected to know if he was playing with 4 fouls. Sort of comparable to the Chris Webber timeout call, I guess Fisher forgot to remind the players that they didn't have any timeouts left.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Yeah I guess that's safest, but I would think a player would know and be expected to know if he was playing with 4 fouls. Sort of comparable to the Chris Webber timeout call, I guess Fisher forgot to remind the players that they didn't have any timeouts left.

Player might have known but rather than questioning it, as someone on the sideline is yelling 'foul!! foul!!' and doing as he was being yelled at to do, rather than thinking about it and processing it.

 

[IUNorth]

It wasn’t that he didn’t think it was a foul. He thought Woody was telling him to foul because they had fouls to give. They were wanting to get them closer to the bonus in case they needed to send them to the line if they lost the lead.

Woodson was upset because while he wanted them to foul. He obviously didn’t want Malik to foul out and be the one to foil. Malik should be smart enough to know that but was saying he was doing what he was told.

Most of the teams I've been involved with spend a little bit of time on situations like this, but not a lot. Most would have a "call" for intentional fouling situations..."Fire" is a common name used. In the practices, the coaches would likely say something about having an awareness of how many fouls you have, and if you have plenty to give, to be the one attacking...and if you're at 4, to back off.

But when you're out there playing, and the coaches are yelling foul, foul, foul...I can easily see where Malik would take that as direction.

Tough one. If the staff hasn't worked on this situation at all...I'd say its on them. If they have, I'd probably flip this one and put it on Malik. He has to know his own foul situation in that moment.

 

[GThomas]

Maybe? I would have assumed MR would know coach wasn't asking him to deliberately foul out at a critical point in the game.

I guess MR learned the hard way, anyway. Probably not a mistake he will make again.

The mental mistakes IU makes are truly impressive. The collective BB IQ of this team is embarrassing.

 

[bawlmer]

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

No. There are lots of lapses that fall on CMW, but a starter fouling out intentionally when we're ahead? Hell no.

 

[ulrey]

No it doesn't.

Dumb.

 

[bawlmer]

Most of the teams I've been involved with spend a little bit of time on situations like this, but not a lot. Most would have a "call" for intentional fouling situations..."Fire" is a common name used. In the practices, the coaches would likely say something about having an awareness of how many fouls you have, and if you have plenty to give, to be the one attacking...and if you're at 4, to back off.

But when you're out there playing, and the coaches are yelling foul, foul, foul...I can easily see where Malik would take that as direction.

Tough one. If the staff hasn't worked on this situation at all...I'd say its on them. If they have, I'd probably flip this one and put it on Malik. He has to know his own foul situation in that moment.

I never played in college, but even in high school I would have been shocked and pissed at any teammate who did what Malik did.

I will agree it points to the challenge CMW faces with the lack of situational awareness with these guys.

 

[13thman]

Rather than give a command that can be understood, give a command that cannot be misunderstood.

 

[Bligedy]

5th foul?????

On replay… he clearly fouled the guy.

But then he was complaining to Woody while leaving the floor…. Then while on the bench complaining.

Can anyone here read lips to figure out what MR was saying???

Was it possible that we had fouls to give… and MR thought that they were supposed to foul?

Anyone’s thoughts???

PS: I just got here and haven’t checked a thread for this topic. If it’s covered elsewhere, I’ll come bac

Go watch the replay right after Malik's bucket to put IU up 2. 72-70, I think.

Woody and Rosemond were both out on the floor yelling at the team to foul. So Malik fouled. I think what you saw Malik doing was not complaining as much as defending himself. "You told us to foul!"

 

[Bligedy]

It wasn’t that he didn’t think it was a foul. He thought Woody was telling him to foul because they had fouls to give. They were wanting to get them closer to the bonus in case they needed to send them to the line if they lost the lead.

Woodson was upset because while he wanted them to foul. He obviously didn’t want Malik to foul out and be the one to foil. Malik should be smart enough to know that but was saying he was doing what he was told.

That's on the coaches. They had 7 fouls for the entire game at that point and Malik had 4 of them. While I agree that Malik should have been smarter, it was up to the coaches to make sure that the other 4 knew what to do, too.

 

[Boilerpointe81]

So you think it's necessary for a coach at this level to have to remind or have spent time teaching a second year starter to not deliberately foul himself out of a game?

Yes just like someone should have reminded Chris Weber that Mich was out of time outs.

 

[bawlmer]

That's on the coaches. They had 7 fouls for the entire game at that point and Malik had 4 of them. While I agree that Malik should have been smarter, it was up to the coaches to make sure that the other 4 knew what to do, too.

The other 4 knew what to do. Malik strangely decided to foul himself out of the game before the other 4 could do their job.

 

[Bligedy]

The other 4 knew what to do. Malik strangely decided to foul himself out of the game before the other 4 could do their job.

Perhaps.

But 7 seconds had gone by so I'm not sure I buy that.

 

[IUNorth]

The other 4 knew what to do. Malik strangely decided to foul himself out of the game before the other 4 could do their job.

They didn't though...if you watch the replay...they were screaming and gesturing for Trey to foul all the way up the court. So either Trey forgot, or they never told them the plan.

The way Malik responded, I think its very, very unlikely they told him anything about not fouling because of his 4th.

I hate that I have this thought...but I'm worried its probably right...

If you look at the replay, the coaches weren't IMMEDIATELY pissed that Malik had fouled. I think Woody had no clue how many fouls he had initially, they ran on the court basically telling them to foul...so Malik fouled. Woody didn't get pissed until he realized Malik had 5 fouls...and then he went off on him. Malik looks like a hurt kid that is getting yelled at by his parents for doing something they asked him to do.

Unfortunately, I absolutely think Woody is the type of coach that would do that. He's the same coach that puts the ball in Trey's hands (not a natural PG), asks him to run a BS, inefficent offense, and then throws him under the bus afterwards when he had some turnovers.

 

[ams66]

Inconceivable to me that Woodson didn't know, or whichever assistant is tasked with keeping track didn't tell him that Reneau had 4 fouls. Inexcusable if nobody was keeping track.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

They didn't though...if you watch the replay...they were screaming and gesturing for Trey to foul all the way up the court. So either Trey forgot, or they never told them the plan.

The way Malik responded, I think its very, very unlikely they told him anything about not fouling because of his 4th.

I hate that I have this thought...but I'm worried its probably right...

If you look at the replay, the coaches weren't IMMEDIATELY pissed that Malik had fouled. I think Woody had no clue how many fouls he had initially, they ran on the court basically telling them to foul...so Malik fouled. Woody didn't get pissed until he realized Malik had 5 fouls...and then he went off on him. Malik looks like a hurt kid that is getting yelled at by his parents for doing something they asked him to do.

Unfortunately, I absolutely think Woody is the type of coach that would do that. He's the same coach that puts the ball in Trey's hands (not a natural PG), asks him to run a BS, inefficent offense, and then throws him under the bus afterwards when he had some turnovers.

Holy Jesus.....stretch Armstrong for the reach

 

[T.M.P.]

A 3 worder? Well done. Take a nap now. I’m sure you’re exhausted.

ESAD...

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Inconceivable to me that Woodson didn't know, or whichever assistant is tasked with keeping track didn't tell him that Reneau had 4 fouls. Inexcusable if nobody was keeping track.

Woodson knew. He was screaming at Reneau within ten seconds of the foul (clearly) and before that, Woodson was off screen, but given that Reneau was seen answering the question of why he fouled, it's bc MW knew.

 

[IUNorth]

Woodson knew. He was screaming at Reneau within ten seconds of the foul (clearly) and before that, Woodson was off screen, but given that Reneau was seen answering the question of why he fouled, it's bc MW knew.

Why didn't he react right when Malik fouled then?

When Malik fouled, no reaction...turned around walked towards the bench...someone says something to him...turns back around...goes off on Malik when he walks by.

Sure didn't look like he realized it right away.

Doesn't matter, we don't know what was said to Malik before the play. They very well might have told him not to foul.

Malik sure looks like an exasperated kid though...just as he would if he thought they were telling him to foul, and then yelling at him for fouling...

If they did explicitly tell Malik not to foul...then Malik's incredulous reaction is strange.

If they didn't explicitly tell Malik not to foul...Woody's reaction is strange.

Either way...dumb...

 

[bawlmer]

Why didn't he react right when Malik fouled then?

When Malik fouled, no reaction...turned around walked towards the bench...someone says something to him...turns back around...goes off on Malik when he walks by.

Sure didn't look like he realized it right away.

Doesn't matter, we don't know what was said to Malik before the play. They very well might have told him not to foul.

Malik sure looks like an exasperated kid though...just as he would if he thought they were telling him to foul, and then yelling at him for fouling...

If they did explicitly tell Malik not to foul...then Malik's incredulous reaction is strange.

If they didn't explicitly tell Malik not to foul...Woody's reaction is strange.

Either way...dumb...

Would you have fouled if you were Malik, even if CMW said to? Maybe if we're losing - maybe. But in that situation? No way.

Big picture, the benefit of fouling in that situation is questionable in the first place. How many times have we given up open 3s on oob plays? Too many for me to like the strategy.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Would you have fouled if you were Malik, even if CMW said to? Maybe if we're losing - maybe. But in that situation? No way.

Big picture, the benefit of fouling in that situation is questionable in the first place. How many times have we given up open 3s on oob plays? Too many for me to like the strategy.

If I thought I was being yelled at to foul, even if it didn't make sense, I probably would.

THey weren't going to get a shot up. We were fouling to get closer to the bonus in case we needed it.

 

[bawlmer]

If I thought I was being yelled at to foul, even if it didn't make sense, I probably would.

THey weren't going to get a shot up. We were fouling to get closer to the bonus in case we needed it.

If the coaches were really yelling at Malik specifically to foul, then they are beyond redemption. I can only believe they were yelling at the team, and believing Malik would understand they didn't mean him.

 

[Bucket Getter]

The other 4 knew what to do. Malik strangely decided to foul himself out of the game before the other 4 could do their job.

I can't actually decide who's dumber around here. Is it the players, coaches, or some of our dimwitted fans?