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Light bulbs.
It's even worse than that, hoot. There are some things you can't buy unless you buy it on Amazon.But under our version of capitalism I must buy my electricity for my light bulbs from an monopoly regulated by the goverment.
Sorta like socialism when it comes to utilities.
Yeah, there's a possum out in the yard some nights. I don't mind because they eat their weight in ticks and slugs, etc. I wouldn't want to find it in the basement though.But under our version of capitalism I must buy my electricity for my light bulbs from an monopoly regulated by the goverment.
Sorta like socialism when it comes to utilities.
Light bulbs.
But under our version of capitalism I must buy my electricity for my light bulbs from an monopoly regulated by the goverment.
Sorta like socialism when it comes to utilities.
I never consider infrastructure and services like water, sewer, and power Socialist concepts. We pay for those services by the amount we consume. I will consider it Socialism when we pay utilities through city or state taxes and not by how much we use. It would then be like free college education and healthcare paid through taxation. We would use the services more than needed and run costs up and up.But under our version of capitalism I must buy my electricity for my light bulbs from an monopoly regulated by the goverment.
Sorta like socialism when it comes to utilities.
I take it you volunteer to pay tolls to use the local roads too?I never consider infrastructure and services like water, sewer, and power Socialist concepts. We pay for those services by the amount we consume. I will consider it Socialism when we pay utilities through city or state taxes and not by how much we use. It would then be like free college education and healthcare paid through taxation. We would use the services more than needed and run costs up and up.
I am happy to pay tolls on I-355 in Chicago. It cost more and the traffic is less than on the other roads I could use. I avoid tolls when I can, but I'll pay to save time and aggravation.I take it you volunteer to pay tolls to use the local roads too?
Socialism Sucks is an excellent and amusing book about socialism. There are no socialist success stories in history.
Unlike other Western democracies which tried various forms of socialism the United States never quite took to it.
It Didn’t Happen Here: Why Socialism Failed in the United States offers some interesting reasons why we never quite took to it.
Which western democracies tried socialism?
If you are going to to suggest some of the Scandinavian countries, I’ll preemptively state that welfare states are not socialism. Socialism is the absence of free markets and where the state indirectly or directly controls prices, wages, distribution, ROI and a host of other economic factors.
Did you know that Sweden and Denmark score higher than US on the economic freedom index?
If that's how you're going to define socialism, then who cares? Neither Bernie nor anyone else is promoting such a thing, so what's it matter? The entire discussion of socialism is only relevant if we're talking about the version of socialism that is implemented in, for example, the Nordic countries.Which western democracies tried socialism?
If you are going to to suggest some of the Scandinavian countries, I’ll preemptively state that welfare states are not socialism. Socialism is the absence of free markets and where the state indirectly or directly controls prices, wages, distribution, ROI and a host of other economic factors.
Did you know that Sweden and Denmark score higher than US on the economic freedom index?
If that's how you're going to define socialism, then who cares? Neither Bernie nor anyone else is promoting such a thing, so what's it matter? The entire discussion of socialism is only relevant if we're talking about the version of socialism that is implemented in, for example, the Nordic countries.
Well, bully for you Mr. Webster. Here in the real world, "democratic socialism" is a term that does have a recognized meaning, and that meaning includes promotion of the types of policies that are common in European countries, especially exemplified by the Nordic countries. When someone - say a Senator from Vermont, for example - calls himself a "democratic socialist" and specifically points to those countries as examples of the kinds of policies he's promoting, then it isn't at all difficult to tell what he favors. If you're having problems with that, that's on you.it’s hard to tell what Bernie favors. He literally screams about everything. He screams about too many rich people. He screams about the labor-value of goods instead of market value which is a socialist concept.
I don’t think the Nordic countries are at all socialist. Private business and free markets abound in those countries.
in any event I think the term “Democratic Socialist” is like saying “Democratic Nazi”. Neither is possible.
I never consider infrastructure and services like water, sewer, and power Socialist concepts. We pay for those services by the amount we consume. I will consider it Socialism when we pay utilities through city or state taxes and not by how much we use. It would then be like free college education and healthcare paid through taxation. We would use the services more than needed and run costs up and up.
Well, bully for you Mr. Webster. Here in the real world, "democratic socialism" is a term that does have a recognized meaning, and that meaning includes promotion of the types of policies that are common in European countries, especially exemplified by the Nordic countries. When someone - say a Senator from Vermont, for example - calls himself a "democratic socialist" and specifically points to those countries as examples of the kinds of policies he's promoting, then it isn't at all difficult to tell what he favors. If you're having problems with that, that's on you.
Which brings us back to what I said before. Who freaking cares? The Economic and Social System Common in Nordic Countries (since we can't call it "democratic socialism," according to you) is the political system that is promoted by Bernie and those like him. If that's not socialism, then there's no reason for you to be worried about socialism.You are giving Bernie too much credit. You can put whatever label you want on Nordic economics, but it isn’t socialism in the way the socialist pioneers applied it and the way it has been, and is, practiced in the world.
Take a look at China as a clear cut example of the difference between socialism and free markets. It devolved from socialist to free market almost at the speed of light in the last couple of decades of the twentieth century. The contrast is very enlightening.
Which brings us back to what I said before. Who freaking cares? The Economic and Social System Common in Nordic Countries (since we can't call it "democratic socialism," according to you) is the political system that is promoted by Bernie and those like him. If that's not socialism, then there's no reason for you to be worried about socialism.
There are no socialist success stories in history.
I don't understand why conservatives think so poorly of our military.
You have a tendency to agree with things that I never said. It's really very annoying.I’ll agree Bernie is hard to pin down. But I think he believes in classical Marx socialism in addition to welfare state which you and he sees as socialism. He said this about wage inequality:
This sounds remarkably like the Marx theory of labor and exploitation—one of the pillars of socialism.What we have seen is that while the average person is working longer hours for lower wages, we have seen a huge increase in income and wealth inequality, which is now reaching obscene levels. This is a rigged economy, which works for the rich and the powerful, and is not working for ordinary Americans ... You know, this country just does not belong to a handful of billionaires.[26]
It will be perfect socialism when the government tells you how much you can use these utilities. Chavez chided his people for taking too long of showers. He said 5 minutes was enough so the people had to comply. If you want to in our system take a 20 minute shower. It's your right, but you have to be responsible to pay for it. I will take that system every day and twice on Sunday.I never consider infrastructure and services like water, sewer, and power Socialist concepts. We pay for those services by the amount we consume. I will consider it Socialism when we pay utilities through city or state taxes and not by how much we use. It would then be like free college education and healthcare paid through taxation. We would use the services more than needed and run costs up and up.
You have a tendency to agree with things that I never said. It's really very annoying.
Again, Bernie isn't hard to pin down at all. He's quite open about what he believes in. You're just not interested in reality. You're interested in burning straw men.
As I said, he's specifically named these countries as examples of his political ideology in practice. He's not hard to pin down. If you're having trouble, it's a you problem.Bernie calls himself a Democratic Socialist. Here, according to Wiki, is what he means:
I haven’t heard Bernie reject a “socially owned economy” or “democratic control of institutions within a market socialist economy”. None of that sounds like the Nordic countries. So yeah, Bernie is hard to pin down.
Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that advocates for political democracy alongside a socially owned economy, with a particular emphasis on workers' self-management and democraticcontrol of economic institutions within a market socialist economy or some form of a decentralised planned socialist economy.
As I said, he's specifically named these countries as examples of his political ideology in practice. He's not hard to pin down. If you're having trouble, it's a you problem.
Pedantic note: As has been pointed out numerous times since 2016, if we want to be dictionary accurate, Sanders isn't really a democratic socialist as much as he's a social democrat. Nowadays, people tend to use the terms interchangeably.
It's also bad manners to purposefully misrepresent someone, but you don't seem to have a problem doing that.I’m going by Bernie’s self identification. Isn’t it bad manners to use descriptors different from what an individual uses.
It's also bad manners to purposefully misrepresent someone, but you don't seem to have a problem doing that.
Well, at least you've gone from "We know" to "I think." That's progress for you.Going around in circles. I don’t think Sanders rejects some of the pillars of socialism as Marx explained and as Sanders talked about when he wasn’t running for POTUS. As is with any candidate, he has laundered his positions. He has a staff and he isn’t a total dumbass.
I agree.
Well, at least you've gone from "We know" to "I think." That's progress for you.
I guess that makes you the smart one then cuz I have no clue.
I take it you volunteer to pay tolls to use the local roads too?
If that's how you're going to define socialism, then who cares? Neither Bernie nor anyone else is promoting such a thing, so what's it matter? The entire discussion of socialism is only relevant if we're talking about the version of socialism that is implemented in, for example, the Nordic countries.
What's intellectually dishonest is refusing to address what someone actually says about his policy preferences, and then taking half of a label that he uses for himself, redefining it in a way that suits you, and then attacking him over it. You want to have a discussion about how much of an analogy can be drawn between the Nordic countries and the U.S.? Well, the discussion I was having with CO isn't even remotely close to that point yet, because CO is steadfastly refusing to accept that's even what Bernie is talking about.No legitimate reason to compare mono-racial and mono-cultural tiny nations to the US. It's intellectually dishonest and a total fairytale.
The population and size of all the Scandinavian countries put together is something like Texas.
Or more comparable.... it would be like most of New England.... and nothing much else.
We have several states here that are larger than those individual countries. California is a major nation state on its own. States are free and able to enact any of these types of policies they want. Should Scandinavia be driving the policy of Italy or Spain?
Top down is a terrible solution for a giant nation like the US.
No legitimate reason to compare mono-racial and mono-cultural tiny nations to the US. It's intellectually dishonest and a total fairytale.
How long have you had a stuck-down seven?Which western democracies tried socialism?
If you are going to to suggest some of the Scandinavian countries, I’ll preemptively state that welfare states are not socialism. Socialism is the absence of free markets and where the state indirectly or directly controls prices, wages, distribution, ROI and a host of other economic factors.
Did you know that Sweden and Denmark score higher than US on the economic freedom index?
To wax philosophical, is it intellectually honest to debate with a known tergiversator? If so, does it at any point in time become dishonest? Finally, when does it become tantamount to wanking?What's intellectually dishonest is refusing to address what someone actually says about his policy preferences, and then taking half of a label that he uses for himself, redefining it in a way that suits you, and then attacking him over it. You want to have a discussion about how much of an analogy can be drawn between the Nordic countries and the U.S.? Well, the discussion I was having with CO isn't even remotely close to that point yet, because CO is steadfastly refusing to accept that's even what Bernie is talking about.