We have a verdict -- Guilty on ALL counts

[twenty02]

Nah. Not sure why 3/4 of my taxes must go to a retirement plan I don't desire. A medicare I don't desire. A military that creates more problems than it solves.

What exactly is the point?

Well you can't say you aren't a libertarian and then respond in a boilerplate libertarian position. Nothing you are saying is new.... libertarians have said the same thing for 50 years. You should go to their meetings and hang out with the strange cats that show up for them. It's an interesting experience.

Your argument is basically a return to a pre-1932 form of federal govt. The New Deal permanently changed how our country operates and WW2 cemented it...and trying to undo it is as useful as screaming at clouds.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

"The charges against Trump are obscure, and nearly entirely unprecedented. In fact, no state prosecutor — in New York, or Wyoming, or anywhere — has ever charged federal election laws as a direct or predicate state crime, against anyone, for anything. None. Ever."

Amazing that they keep finding all these "crimes" that no one in the history of the world has apparently ever committed or been charged with before.

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Absolutely nuts.

Translation: "Maybe Goat was right."

You seemed convinced that this ruling is the final nail in Joe Biden’s coffin.

I’m kind of curious why?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Well you can't say you aren't a libertarian and then respond in a boilerplate libertarian position. Nothing you are saying is new.... libertarians have said the same thing for 50 years. You should go to their meetings and hang out with the strange cats that show up for them. It's an interesting experience.

Your argument is basically a return to a pre-1932 form of federal govt. The New Deal permanently changed how our country operates and WW2 cemented it...and trying to undo it is as useful as screaming at clouds.

Spot on unfortunately. Federal activism in response to the unique challenges of that time (depression) etc that became entrenched and shouldn’t have. This past Biden round was another effort at it

 

[twenty02]

Spot on unfortunately. Federal activism in response to the unique challenges of that time (depression) etc that became entrenched and shouldn’t have. This past Biden round was another effort at it

We've been lucky to be the only hyperpower in the world for a long time and as such, gotten away with a lot of irresponsible fiscal behavior. In the grand scheme of human existence, we are all still living a life on the far positive end of the bell curve. But when you are used to eating crab legs and have to settle for sirloin you feel like you're losing out

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

State governments are good for paving roads and holding lotteries. that should be the extent of their reach. Local governments should be limited to dog catching.

I'll govern me and mine as I see fit.

What about police, fire departments and public education?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I notice you didn't challenge any point.

I guess, when presented by facts, all you can do is pull your head back in your shell.

Just wanted to see if you took notes and parroted the maga lines correctly.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

What about police, fire departments and public education?

And state and county fairs

 

[stollcpa]

@UncleMark @stollcpa

If you haven’t figured it out, there’s a two tiered system here in The Cooler.

 

[BradStevens]

Spot on unfortunately. Federal activism in response to the unique challenges of that time (depression) etc that became entrenched and shouldn’t have. This past Biden round was another effort at it

It went deeper and was brewing for longer than the Great Depression. The socialist movement was a real thing in this country at the turn of the 20th century. I have a book recommendation for you. . .

But yeah, the Great Depression was certainly the catalyst for the socialist policies that we have now had for 100 years.

What’s fascinating is that some people who consider themselves conservative—I.e. maintaining the status quo—want to reverse programs that are nearly 100 years old and don’t understand or respect the choices of the people who changed the govt in the past to meet the demands of their times and the evolving nature of our nation.

CFN— re the social contract, my two cents: it’s an interesting and powerful perspective to apply. But it’s a philosophical metaphor and like almost all such theories, should be treated as one of many perspectives from which to view things. If you use it as the only one, you become a radical and can justify a lot of evil because no such theory really captures all of human experience.

 

[BradStevens]

If you haven’t figured it out, there’s a two tiered system here in The Cooler.

Which one am I in? If in the top one, yay Mark! If in the bottom, **** off Mark!

 

[mcmurtry66]

It went deeper and was brewing for longer than the Great Depression. The socialist movement was a real thing in this country at the turn of the 20th century. I have a book recommendation for you. . .

But yeah, the Great Depression was certainly the catalyst for the socialist policies that we have now had for 100 years.

What’s fascinating is that some people who consider themselves conservative—I.e. maintaining the status quo—want to reverse programs that are nearly 100 years old and don’t understand or respect the choices of the people who changed the govt in the past to meet the demands of their times and the evolving nature of our nation.

CFN— re the social contract, my two cents: it’s an interesting and powerful perspective to apply. But it’s a philosophical metaphor and like almost all such theories, should be treated as one of many perspectives from which to view things. If you use it as the only one, you become a radical and can justify a lot of evil because no such theory really captures all of human experience.

Yes. Politics admin dichotomy. Woodrow Wilson etc

 

[outside shooter]

We seem to be getting away from the topic, celebrating American democracy and equal justice for all! Wealth and power is not a free pass to commit felonies! Wave that American flag!

 

[stollcpa]

Which one am I in? If in the top one, yay Mark! If in the bottom, **** off Mark!

I guess there’s three. Republicans who figure out how to kiss Mark and Goat’s ass just enough to stay on their good side. 😂 JK maybe. 😂

 

[stollcpa]

We seem to be getting away from the topic, celebrating American democracy and equal justice for all! Wealth and power is not a free pass to commit felonies! Wave that American flag!

Your guy in the oval office and his family have a free pass.

 

[BradStevens]

I guess there’s three. Republicans who figure out how to kiss Mark and Goat’s ass just enough to stay on their good side. 😂 JK maybe. 😂

Still not sure which I’m in.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Still not sure which I’m in.

You're in the intelligent tier.

 

[outside shooter]

Your guy in the oval office and his family have a free pass.

No, lack of credible evidence is not a free pass. Seems like Hunter has a long legal battle ahead. If evidence really emerges with wrongdoing by his father, then "Lock him up" would be fine with me. But so far, like Los Angeles, "there is no there, there"

 

[stollcpa]

Still not sure which I’m in.

You’re in the third tier that ignores the ignorance of the left and try's to get alone.

I tried that many years ago but Rockfish broke me. Now I am not turning the other cheek.

 

[DANC]

I’m not a full blown libertarian. I believe in Democratic government and most discretionary taxes are ok in my view.

It just boils my blood when people talk about tax cuts as being inflationary or contributing to the debt as if people don’t have a right to the fruits of their own labor.

I don't mind paying taxes that much. What I hate is the waste and vote-buying for things like student loan foregiveness.

 

[DANC]

Well that’s their fault, isn’t it?

Yep, it sure is, and they're emblematic of many Trump haters.

 

[DANC]

You throw more personal insults than everyone else combined. Don't pretend you are capable of desirous of polite conversation.

Only at those who insult me. You do it for those you disagree with. And don't pretend otherwise.

Doesn't matter to me - I posted that as a joke anyway. Sorry you got your panties in a bunch.

 

[stollcpa]

You're in the intelligent tier.

You think so much of yourself.

 

[dbmhoosier]

We seem to be getting away from the topic, celebrating American democracy and equal justice for all! Wealth and power is not a free pass to commit felonies! Wave that American flag!

This is your candidate.

 

[DANC]

Just wanted to see if you took notes and parroted the maga lines correctly.

The lines must be correct, because you didn't refute even one.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Your guy in the oval office and his family have a free pass.

Two federal trials for Hunter Biden are about to start. Replace Joe Biden with Donald Trump as President and Hunter with Trump Junior - would Junior be going to trial? I seriously doubt it. Trump actually tried to control the DOJ. He fired the guy who prosecuted Cohen and had DJT in his sights. The NY trial could have been a federal trial. Actually it should have been and the NY trial shouldn’t have happened, but Trump would almost certainly have been guilty at a federal trial as well.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

The NY trial could have been a federal trial. Actually it should have been and the NY trial shouldn’t have happened, but Trump would almost certainly have been guilty at a federal trial as well.

That’s a pretty ignorant thing to say considering FEC and DOJ both looked at the case and decided there was no wrongdoing.

 

[DANC]

If you haven’t figured it out, there’s a two tiered system here in The Cooler.

Learned that a long time ago. I just wish there was some consistency.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Well you can't say you aren't a libertarian and then respond in a boilerplate libertarian position. Nothing you are saying is new.... libertarians have said the same thing for 50 years. You should go to their meetings and hang out with the strange cats that show up for them. It's an interesting experience.

Your argument is basically a return to a pre-1932 form of federal govt. The New Deal permanently changed how our country operates and WW2 cemented it...and trying to undo it is as useful as screaming at clouds.

You got that right. The New Deal and Great Society aren’t being put back in the box at this point.

That why when we look back on the ashes of the American Republic. We should reserve an oversized portion of blame for FDR and LBJ. They both broke our founding bargain in irreversible and destructive ways.

 

[manichi]

What about police, fire departments and public education?

of course, I was just vibing off ChicagoFineForNow last night. Then had a dream that he and I were in a militia together. We ended in a prison camp in Joliet facing a two-tiered military tribunal. Didn't end well for CFFN.

 

[BradStevens]

of course, I was just vibing off ChicagoFineForNow last night. Then had a dream that he and I were in a militia together. We ended in a prison camp in Joliet facing a two-tiered military tribunal. Didn't end well for CFFN.

You and CFN in a prison together in a dream. . . Were you wearing cowboy hats?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

That’s a pretty ignorant thing to say considering FEC and DOJ both looked at the case and decided there was no wrongdoing.

No. It’s not ignorant, it’s factual. The TRUMP DOJ decided not to pursue it after Trump replaced the DA that had him in his sights. Of course they couldn’t pursue it while Trump was in office. Educate yourself, young man. All you’re doing now is repeating Trumpster talking points - and that is ignorance.

 

[BradStevens]

You got that right. The New Deal and Great Society aren’t being put back in the box at this point.

That why when we look back on the ashes of the American Republic. We should reserve an oversized portion of blame for FDR and LBJ. They both broke our founding bargain in irreversible and destructive ways.

Or FDR and New Deal Dems saved the US from the fate of becoming a communist or fascist state.

 

[manichi]

You and CFN in a prison together in a dream. . . Were you wearing cowboy hats?

haha, yup, that was us minus the handsome features.

it looked more like this

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

No. It’s not ignorant, it’s factual. The TRUMP DOJ decided not to pursue it after Trump replaced the DA that had him in his sights. Of course they couldn’t pursue it while Trump was in office. Educate yourself, young man. All you’re doing now is repeating Trumpster talking points - and that is ignorance.

And the FEC? Also in Trump’s pocket? Heck Alvin Bragg declined to try the case at first. He changed his mind two month after Trump declared he was running. Crazy timing.

Why don’t so willingly delude yourself? Is your disdain for Trump so powerful that it causes you to abandon all reasoning?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

And the FEC? Also in Trump’s pocket? Heck Alvin Bragg declined to try the case at first. He changed his mind two month after Trump declared he was running. Crazy timing.

Why don’t so willingly delude yourself? Is your disdain for Trump so powerful that it causes you to abandon all reasoning?

Why do you choose to be ignorant? Read the Cohen indictment. He was guilty and Trump is in the indictment as an unindicted co-conspirator. Can’t prosecute a President so they didn’t, but they could have after he left office. Trump replaced that attorney with a sychophant. No prosecution.

 

[DANC]

Or FDR and New Deal Dems saved the US from the fate of becoming a communist or fascist state.

I think the opposite - we caved to communist/socialist ideals. We are a socialist state today, whether we like to admit it or not.

For the record, these programs started out small and manageable under FDR. Under Johnson, benefits exploded well beyond original intentions and led to the exponentially expanding spending we have today on social programs.

I'm not against savings programs and private accounts for working people to cover retirement and insurance in retirement. But what we have now is a Ponzi scheme and those ultimately collapse.

As an aside, I'd be interested in seeing some actuarial analysis of how Covid affected SS and Medicare systems. My guess is, they extended the date they run out of money, but I've not seen any studies.

 

[Bowlmania]

That’s a pretty ignorant thing to say considering FEC and DOJ both looked at the case and decided there was no wrongdoing.

You clearly never read any of the Cohen prosecution filings, or you have a very short memory. Does "Individual 1" ring a bell? The feds referred to Trump by that name in charging Cohen with skirting campaign contribution rules by arranging for payments to McDougal and Daniels to shut them up about their affairs with Trump. Federal prosecutors said "Individual 1" directed Cohen to make the payments which they said should have been subject to campaign finance laws because they were made for the purpose of helping Trump win the election. The feds didn't move against Trump because he was president at the time. There's longstanding Justice policy that you can't prosecute a sitting president. There was also a concern that Trump could preemptively pardon himself. Finally, and not surprisingly, the feds were concerned about Cohen's credibility as a witness.

You should read more. (Reading shit on social media doesn't count). The feds were well aware of Trump's wrongdoing.

 

[Bowlmania]

We are a socialist state today

No. We're a "fascist state" according to the man you worship, and his son referred to the United States, the greatest country on earth, as a "third-world shithole."

Great patriots, those two. They should get the fvck out.

 

[cosmickid]

Boy, she has so ruined her looks.....

We all hope conservatives will give the left a dose of their own medicine, but it will never happen. Conservatives respect the rule of law too much.

Trump didn't go after Hillary - Jeff Sessions and other non-MAGA Republicans would never want to piss of Democrats by using the kind of lawfare that's used against them. Hell, Hunter and Joe Biden are caught on Hunter's business calls after Joe said he knows nothing about Hunter's business - and Republicans do absolutely nothing.

It's frustrating and we'll keep going down this road until there's boiling over point. I don't know what it will look like, but I can imagine, and it won't be pretty.

"We all hope conservatives will give the left a dose of their own medicine, but it will never happen. Conservatives respect the rule of law too much."

I'd probably go with it won't happen because MAGA is a minority that the majority view as looney tunes. But if you want to go with your fantasy, be my guest.

There are plenty of "conservatives" who can't abide Trump's antics... Judge Lutig, GOP stalwarts from Congress like Cheney,Kitzinger,Joe Walsh, Romney- just off the top of my head.

Remember when Jeff Flake left Congress because all the MAGA nutjobs forced him out. What's happened since then? AZ now has two Dem Senators (Sinema ran as a Dem,and will likely be replaced by Gallego in Nov) probably for the first time in 30+ yrs. And if you add in a Dem Governor to the 2 Dem Senators, it's likely been 60+ yrs since that's happened with all 3 at the same time...

MAGA= Make Attorneys Get Attorneys...

And speaking of Conservative (but definitely not MAGA) voices here's Gerorge Conway. One of the key voices behind the scenes in the push to get Bill Clinton Impeached, and assisted Paula Jones in her lawsuit vs Clinton. In that regard he worked with Ann Coulter and Matt Drudge who are imho (despicable) in their own way. But all 3 have reached their tolerance level with Trump, jumped off the Trump train and find Trump even more despicable than what they can tolerate...



"Trump didn't go after Hillary"- Seriously?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/politics/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-hillary-clinton/index.html

Trump ratchets up call for DOJ to investigate Hillary Clinton

“At some point the Justice Department, and the FBI, must do what is right and proper. The American public deserves it!” he tweets.

www.politico.com

So if a minority of people wanted Hillary prosecuted in 2018 (as Trump suggested), you think that the majority of people who currently believe Trump created serious crimes should be ignored? In both instances your suggestion is that the minority opinion should prevail?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/13/trump-crimes-poll-voters-00152110

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/01/poll-trump-conviction-election-independent-voters

Btw I heard the stock market hit record highs on Fri. I know Fox and all the Trump bots had been saying it would collapse, and lose at least 1000 or so points...

It'll be interesting to see how they spin the opposite occurring ?

 

[cosmickid]

You clearly never read any of the Cohen prosecution filings, or you have a very short memory. Does "Individual 1" ring a bell? The feds referred to Trump by that name in charging Cohen with skirting campaign contribution rules by arranging for payments to McDougal and Daniels to shut them up about their affairs with Trump. Federal prosecutors said "Individual 1" directed Cohen to make the payments which they said should have been subject to campaign finance laws because they were made for the purpose of helping Trump win the election. The feds didn't move against Trump because he was president at the time. There's longstanding Justice policy that you can't prosecute a sitting president. There was also a concern that Trump could preemptively pardon himself. Finally, and not surprisingly, the feds were concerned about Cohen's credibility as a witness.

You should read more. (Reading shit on social media doesn't count). The feds were well aware of Trump's wrongdoing.

The fact that Berman wanted to investigate Trump's role, is one of the reasons Trump insisted on Barr replacing Berman. Lawfare, indeed...