"We can’t get stops": IU looks to tighten defense - Hoosier Network
- Thread starter rikki-tikka-tava
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Problem is CAM will get them so focused on Defense that the offense suffers. I get scoring off defense but there needs to be a balance. Happened last year.
Good defense leads to transition offense opportunities. Smith and Rob, in particular are good in transition. I think Miller wants his defense to lead the way, and that is a healthy outlook, and one to focus on.
Good defense starts with effort, and Miller has built a rotation to allow a lot of guys minutes so long as there is tremendous and consistent defensive effort. If that breaks down, everything breaks down.
How does that happen? Are they so focused on defense that they forget to run down to the other end of the court?
Not to mention we've completely revamped the half court offense and are using a variation of blocker/mover this year.. but since no announcers have informed the ignorant common fan they don't even see or realize it.
Until proven differently the offense is going to be the more troubling area again this year. CAM knows that and knows that a tough defense can get them some easy points. He is defensive minded coach to begin with. He will start there and move forward. Laying the groundwork for not just this year but years to come.
After two games with soft opponents and a couple of exhibitions, you are proclaiming a complete revamp of the half court game. Other than losing Juwan Morgan, please enlighten us common folk. Making three or four passes during a possession won't do it. Having three viable big men on the court at the same time doesn't cut it as a revamp. All personnel related. Blockers and movers come with viable bigs. There is nothing new here other than personnel.
Quit posting your malarkey!
I could stand to hear more. Seriously, break it down - never heard of "blocker/mover" and would love to advance my apprehension of Game 'mechanics' & strategy. Or maybe I just don't wanna be that guy - you know, the ignorant common fan.
In any case, regale me.
I could stand to hear more. Seriously, break it down - never heard of "blocker/mover" and would love to advance my apprehension of Game 'mechanics' & strategy. Or maybe I just don't wanna be that guy - you know, the ignorant common fan.
In any case, regale me.
Draw your own conclusion on what Coach DICK Bennett has drawn on the chalk board at the start of the video...
Here's a graphic showing IU for a set and Smith cutting to the basket for the score..
Look at the screens. Pin down, flare screen, ball screen, ghost screen.. good action on this one. Some people were complaining last year we didn't move enough without the ball, and didn't screen enough. Well .. what now.
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It's just a variation on motion offense. If you remember RMK back in the day he used to run "pairs", it's close to that, Bennetts version uses pairs too but instead of both players screening for each other, one is the mover (cutter), the other the blocker (screener). Generally once action starts, one pair (inside) will use a pin down, the other pair will use a flare. Screener can roll or post or pop from their screen.. It gives the ball handler, cutter and screener multiple options and reads .. and like true motion is a very intuitive offense. Every set has countless variations and options.I could stand to hear more. Seriously, break it down - never heard of "blocker/mover" and would love to advance my apprehension of Game 'mechanics' & strategy. Or maybe I just don't wanna be that guy - you know, the ignorant common fan.
In any case, regale me.
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Trayce has a chance to thrive in this offense.
This year, mainly from the low spot. He can get the ball in the short corner and do damage. Developing and making opponents respect a 12 - 15' jumper will make him lethal. Further skill development will make him effective from the high spot too.
The 2nd set of stills with accompanying video (page 2) shows him down low...
https://www.insidethehall.com/2019/11/07/film-session-western-illinois/
Look at all the screens and cuts .. I love it.
I suspect Miller is trying to use his bigs a bit more offensively than Bennett has at Virginia, not only as scorers but passers. They (Brunk/TJD) would both be more effective if they show they can hit the 15'. The high low fits very well with this .. Imagine Garcia and TJD as the bigs in this offense .. combined with a decent 3 shooter or two ..
Bloom would be proud of us .. vbg
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Coach DICK Bennett will need to do his chalk talk from the opposite baseline... boing!
Sorry @Bloom. I'm already regressing.
Quit posting your malarkey - you gotta shoot to score!!! Chuck it up there and get it in the hole!!!
No, I heard from someone that really knows this stuff that Miller will concentrate on defensive so much that the offense suffers. He saw it last year.
A lot of good stuff in this thread. I do want to mention to go easy on IU fans who have not subscribed to BTN+. It hasn't been easy to watch the games yet. But I agree with you on the revamping of the offense. I am excited about that. It was on my Christmas list last year.
Why do you think Archie is going with a new offense? The composition of this team? Long term change? What happened last year?
Just seems strange that someone that has been coaching for several years would change. I LIKE the fact that he is willing to change but it seems most coaches don't once they are established.
I could stand to hear more. Seriously, break it down - never heard of "blocker/mover" and would love to advance my apprehension of Game 'mechanics' & strategy. Or maybe I just don't wanna be that guy - you know, the ignorant common fan.
In any case, regale me.
There is a great deal of role definition in Blocker-Mover, where the two "Bigs" are screeners, and the "Littles" are cutters. It easily enables various screens to take place in a possession, without having to call out sets or audibles. The down side is the rules utilized are often easily scoutable, and while any catch has its own set of reads for the offense, a team and player can develop tendencies which are easier to scout.
The Littles kind of run in a circle around the Bigs. One Big is usually high (not that kind of high), and one Big is usually low. They are typically on the opposite side of the lane from each other. Bigs have their own set of rules, but keep in mind, DeAndre Hunter was a Big for Virginia last year in many of their rotations, and he was one of the best wings in the country.
If the high Big is skipped over or bypassed via a pass, he typically turns around to set a ball screen. So if the Little is on the top of the offense, passes the ball on direction, then is flared to the wing by the high/Big, it results in a skip pass to the Little. That Flare to Ball Screen action is hard to guard, creates a ton of two-man game opportunities, and it also empties out the back side so the Little can curl to the rim off the screen.
If the high/Big sets the flare, he can pop out for a catch or dive to the rim as well. So if his defender is too aggressive helping, it would open up reads for him, and it wouldn't preclude him from setting the ball screen should the ball still go to the Little.
The one negative is it doesn't provide great spacing for middle penetration. (Not that kind of penetration) So most of their catches in the middle of the floor are higher up to create more space. The high/Big can also ball screen that guy too.
For this offense to be truly great and capable of playing at a higher tempo, you need at least one of your Bigs to be skilled and/or have 3pt range.
It's a great offense because you can typically play players who aren't that skilled, if they can screen well. It can create some pigeonholing of players, and I know a lot of coaches who use this and lack imagination.
It's tough to guard because in any possession, you get about every screen possible, back screen, pin screen, down screen and flare screen. You get ball screens, and you can set up a Little as a screener as well and get a ton of double screens.
Thank you Gentlemen. Expansive and uncharacteristically substantive content for this Board.
Virginia and Wisconsin of old but not here in Indiana. There is no revamped offense just viable bigs setting a screen or two. No pairs of movers and blockers.
Sorry, but you’re wrong. They run secondary action into it, and I’ve seen a couple of times of late shot clock floppy action out of it.
Considering he had some Blocker-Mover tendencies while at Dayton, I’d say it’s a move back. Harder to read it at Dayton than IU, since he rarely had two “bigs”. In B-M, you can designate Bigs as Wide or Lane, and Wides have way more territorial freedom on the court.
That is essentially what DeAndre Hunter was at Virginia when he was the “4”. Notre Dame would work B-M movement into getting Bonzie Colson into space with certain two-man game pairings. It’s hard to teach those guys to stay in the structure of the offense, but it would be nice if Justin Smith could play that role some for IU. It would also be nice if TJD could develop his range or ability to drive from distance to be that guy as well.
I am sorry to disagree with the Almighty Bloom and his wanna be but I believe you are seeing what you want to see.
What you are seeing are viable bigs setting screens and moving to space. Not a pair of blockers setting blocks repetitively for movers to scoot around.
It's has been a while but there are actually 2 guards playing with three in the front court. This change of personnel has allowed for more traditional screening. Thus maybe by occasional happenstance an appearance of your desired "revamped" offense unfolds in your mind.
CAM is not moving towards the Bennett philosophy. He is utilizing his personnel as he should.
CAM - “It’s not that we’re changing, it’s that we have to evolve,” Miller said. “We have to become more of what we aspire to be, and to me that’s having a lot of guys that you recruit that have a lot of different types of talents that can blend well. You’re looking for versatility, multifaceted guys. We have that.”
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It’s been great seeing Race and TJD moving and setting screens. along with Brunk. It looks very different than last year. Should be a big plus when DeVonte is ready to go putting up jumpers off them, along with Al and Rob.
Evolving is change, and "moving towards the Bennett philosophy" would be a great utilization of personnel. It's giving Justin Smith tremendous baseline opportunities to finish. Even highlights IU posted show the structure, and the only hint that Smith, presumably your alleged third big, screens is when he's the second big in smaller lineups.
Call it whatever you want. There are more defined roles on the court and much more movement off the ball.
Who are the "Almighty Bloom and his wanna be"? You need to embellish and label to combat disagreement. Pretty defensive, but you are hiding behind a new user name.
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I am glad you recognize my trembling before you. Nothing being embellished here sans the "revamped" blockers/movers offense.
The restructure as you call it is simply because of the personnel. CAM has the option of playing several combinations in the front court. Screens are naturally going to occur more often with a robust front court.
Twist the words of CAM any way you want but the roles are there because of the players he now has in a deep rotation. No mysterious B/M core. Just a group of guys who like to play. He does not have to run the offense through two main guys like last year. He is expecting a game to game approach with a variety of players contributing in each game.
The restructure as you call it is simply because of the personnel. CAM has the option of playing several combinations in the front court. Screens are naturally going to occur more often with a robust front court.
Twist the words of CAM any way you want but the roles are there because of the players he now has in a deep rotation. No mysterious B/M core. Just a group of guys who like to play. He does not have to run the offense through two main guys like last year. He is expecting a game to game approach with a variety of players contributing in each game.
Really it's just a group of guys who like to play, that's all? WTF does that have to do with anything? Isn't every team a group of guys who like to play? So if they hate to play is that now blocker mover? Do you have to hate to play to run that offense? lmao ..
If Coach Pop runs a play similar to what Bennett runs is it now Blocker Mover? If Bennett adds a wrinkle that isn't the normal in a Blocker Mover, is it now not blocker mover? All offense fundamentally shares the same concepts, the variations are based on philosophy personnel situation etc ..Not every coach ran motion the same way that RMK did. Knight didn;t run motion the same way every game.
This offense so far shares many traits of blocker mover because it's a motion offense with more off ball action than we've seen in the past. Blocker Mover is a good practical name for it for now for conversation purpose. You're just arguing minutiae .. and I suspect only to be argumentative. We're not running pairs, Bennett doesn't always use pairs either, and we're using our bigs more than Bennett does, but we're also doing many similar things.. .call it whatever you wish.
Call it "the offense for teams who have a bunch of guys who like to play". lol ..
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Motion? Yes CAM's main emphasis to this season!
CAM - "I think each team is different every season. You have to play to your strengths. This team in general and looking at the parts that we have and how we’ll have to be built, we’re going to have to be much more difficult to deal with, which has to have a lot more randomness into what we do. We have to utilize our versatility with the guys that can play multiple positions together.
And we are going to have to move that ball. To do that, you’re going to have a lot of concepts and action to the way you play. I’ll excited to coach this team in that regard. We do have a lot different guys I think that can play together that may look the same and do some things differently.
But there is some versatility and some interchangeable parts. I think that’s going to be the quest for this team, by far and away offensively, is to have more movement. Definitely have more ball movement and play more people.
And to do that, I think you definitely have to spend more time on the concepts and guys playing the game together rather than just a play or two or guy or two. It’s going to be much more of a by-committee team on both ends of the floor. From on offensive perspective, how we generate offense, how we score, how we’re efficient, is going to be through the bulk of the parts, not one guy."
Which is what you are seeing: Our front court moving! Not a B/M core or variation... Simple movement. Simple screens. More viable front court players.
And yes guys that want to play together as in chemistry / cohesiveness
Media Day 2019 2020
You talked about building chemistry, having a better chemistry than maybe you had last year. How do you build it?
CAM -
"I think you’re always on a quest as you guide the team. Whether you’re on the team or on the staff or the head coach, you’re constantly trying put people in situations where they learn one another better, they spend more time together, there is more communication and working together.
I think for me and learning how things go, especially with young people these days, they can very much stay in their own lane, on their own phone. You know the setting with young people these days. They very literally don’t talk as much as they used to. So we try to put our guys in situations where it forces them communicate, be more active with one another always."
CAM - "I think each team is different every season. You have to play to your strengths. This team in general and looking at the parts that we have and how we’ll have to be built, we’re going to have to be much more difficult to deal with, which has to have a lot more randomness into what we do. We have to utilize our versatility with the guys that can play multiple positions together.
And we are going to have to move that ball. To do that, you’re going to have a lot of concepts and action to the way you play. I’ll excited to coach this team in that regard. We do have a lot different guys I think that can play together that may look the same and do some things differently.
But there is some versatility and some interchangeable parts. I think that’s going to be the quest for this team, by far and away offensively, is to have more movement. Definitely have more ball movement and play more people.
And to do that, I think you definitely have to spend more time on the concepts and guys playing the game together rather than just a play or two or guy or two. It’s going to be much more of a by-committee team on both ends of the floor. From on offensive perspective, how we generate offense, how we score, how we’re efficient, is going to be through the bulk of the parts, not one guy."
Which is what you are seeing: Our front court moving! Not a B/M core or variation... Simple movement. Simple screens. More viable front court players.
And yes guys that want to play together as in chemistry / cohesiveness
Media Day 2019 2020
You talked about building chemistry, having a better chemistry than maybe you had last year. How do you build it?
CAM -
"I think you’re always on a quest as you guide the team. Whether you’re on the team or on the staff or the head coach, you’re constantly trying put people in situations where they learn one another better, they spend more time together, there is more communication and working together.
I think for me and learning how things go, especially with young people these days, they can very much stay in their own lane, on their own phone. You know the setting with young people these days. They very literally don’t talk as much as they used to. So we try to put our guys in situations where it forces them communicate, be more active with one another always."
LOL...they’re running Blocker-Mover. They’ve run three entries into it so far, including a flex screen Into a screen the screener action involving Smith and Brunk. Where Brunk screens out for Smith, and he screens back if he doesn’t get it, then gets a pin down from TJD.
They just rant it for Durham and Smith (as the 2nd big). Smith flex screened Durham. He returned, then came off a pin down from Davis.
It’s not my fault you don’t know what it looks like, and nothing that you’re quoting from Miller precludes it from being B-M.
They just rant it for Durham and Smith (as the 2nd big). Smith flex screened Durham. He returned, then came off a pin down from Davis.
It’s not my fault you don’t know what it looks like, and nothing that you’re quoting from Miller precludes it from being B-M.
Need to make the catch uncomfortable and we're not. Which means we're late ..
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Have to consider one thing on that. Playing two bigs most of the half, this is what it looks like...
Two of Brunk, TJD, Thompson and Davis. The guy with the most returning minutes of that group is Davis. Davis and Thompson together are SLOW.
That pushes Smith the 3, which he has mostly not played up to this season. He has to get used to guarding a more athletic/skilled player. That also means Hunter is a 3 when he’s in. Zero returning minutes.
One rotation had Hunter and Anderson in together with two bigs and Phinisee.
IU will improve defensively, but right now, they don’t have much continuity from last year given how rotations are playing out this year.
As a completely objective third party observer, I can say without prejudice that you need to call it a day on this post. You have lost. If you must hide your shame, make another new username...
Yup were using it or a very close variation. You could see it more than once tonight....
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