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Way-Too-Early Election Predictions

This is Joe's to lose but FL, OH, NC, MI, and PA are much closer than the national polls suggest.

Closer as in all those states are states Trump won in 2016, and OH being close is really bad news? Texas, AZ, and IA being close is also bad news?

Just not sure what you mean by saying they're closer than the "national polls" suggest? Trump has to win virtually ALL of those states to eke out another EC victory. I mean it's obvious we're not seriously including any 2016 Blue states in the battleground, because there is no indication Trump can pick any of them up. Except maybe NH, with it's 4 EVs...
 
I’ve heard this mentioned on Morning Joe and with each new day I’m starting to believe that Trump is purposely throwing the election. He has no 2nd term goals and is on the wrong side on about every issue, especially when it comes to treating COVID-19 and race relations, two of the biggest concerns on the minds of Americans. Seriously, he’s not even trying to appeal to anyone right now outside of his dwindling diehard base.

He tried to strike a calmer tone with Hannity last night, but he almost seems resigned to losing. See when he says something to the effect that "Biden will be POTUS" because someone "doesn't like me"... Also, it's cute when he claims someone wrote the word "xenophobic" for Biden, and then basically says Biden would not "know" what the word means? Sounds like someone picked up a new addition to their vocabulary yesterday, and couldn't wait to rush to Fox and try to use it...

 
You mistook “way-to-early” to mean realistic. You also mistook “just for fun” to mean Be a dufus. Kudos.

You have to forgive Ladoga. His hotspot got touched and so he has this urgent need to let everyone know that he's an invaluable insider to Republican politics with knowledge that far exceeds us mere mortals on this board. ;)
 
I've been chomping to start a thread like this for a while, but kept wondering if it was too early to gain participation. So thanks for stepping out and getting it started...

I'm going to distinguish my picks between states that went Red in 2016 that I feel will switch, and Red states that will be a lot closer than you'd normally think...

Biden pick-ups
PA
MI
WI
FL
NC
IA
GA (got a feeling...)
AZ

Narrow Trump wins
OH
SC
TX

Dems p/u IA, ME, CO, MT, NC in Senate, with an outside shot at 1 GA seat and SC is VERY close...AL too close to call, with GOP Primary pending...

Don't forget the senate race in AZ. It should be a big pick-up for the Democratic Party. That campaign will help Biden at the top of the ticket.
 
You have to forgive Ladoga. His hotspot got touched and so he has this urgent need to let everyone know that he's an invaluable insider to Republican politics with knowledge that far exceeds us mere mortals on this board. ;)

Well, as evidenced by his unwillingness to play along in an advertised
"way-too-early-prediction" thread, regardless of his inability to avoid it, he is obviously a know-nothing blowhard.
 
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I thought you were paying attention. Its way too early - didn't you notice? Just like the OP said and just like Dukakis campaign illustrated. Too early for predictions - NO, I have no predictions. Got that? Work hard, you can learn.

So your only intention in this thread is to be a condescending jackass, while saying you aren't going to participate.

Do you jack off while you're posting like this? That's the only conceivable reason you interject into threads like this. You get jollies off being a internet shit head.
 
Good quick read:

Why Biden’s Lead Is Safer Than Clinton’s

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/biden-leads-trump-polls-clinton-2016.html?via=taps_top

Former Vice President Joe Biden is thumping President Donald Trump in the polls. As of Friday, Biden led Trump by 10 percentage points in the RealClearPolitics national average and by six to nine points in each of four key states: Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. But many Democrats refuse to trust these numbers. They feel burned by 2016, when Hillary Clinton lost after leading in the polls for months. They’re afraid Trump will come back again.

That could happen. But it probably won’t, and one reason is that Biden isn’t Clinton. You can argue that public antipathy toward Clinton was sexist, based on lies, or propelled by the media. But that antipathy was a fact, and polls consistently documented it. Now polls are showing something else: On identical questions, posed by the same pollsters at the same stage of the campaign, Biden is doing far better than Clinton did. He’s more broadly liked and less broadly disliked than she was.​
 
It's possible Trump has dealt himself a death blow yesterday. Yesterday the Solicitor General filed a brief with the Supreme Court to the effect that "Obamacare must fall".
Democrats renew health care attacks on GOP as virus builds

https://apnews.com/01a26c1e578120bf1226db80bcd8b44c

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democrats are intensifying their attacks on President Donald Trump and his Republican allies over health care, hoping that an issue that helped lift the party during the 2018 midterms will prove even more resonant as the White House seeks to repeal the Affordable Care Act during a public health crisis.

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, told an audience in the swing state of Pennsylvania this week that efforts to undermine the Obama-era health care law were “cruel” and “callous.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called Trump “beyond stupid” for trying to roll back the law and introduced legislation that would expand the scope of the overhaul, essentially daring Republicans to vote against it.
[...]
Still, the Trump administration filed a brief Thursday urging the Supreme Court to strike down the health care law in its entirety, in support of a lawsuit brought by Texas and other conservative states against it. The brief came on a day that the U.S. saw a record number of new coronavirus cases, with 37,077 reported Thursday.

If the lawsuit is successful, some 20 million Americans could lose their health coverage, and protections for people with preexisting health conditions also would be put at risk.
[...]
“We are literally battling the worst pandemic in 100 years. And Washington Republicans are dead set on being the biggest threat to public health,” she said.

She said the Democratic health care message would be, “Democrats are the party of health care. Republicans are the party of drinking bleach.”​
 
Meanwhile, Trump, the boss of high-pressure sales tactics:






I think we now know what Trump does all day besides tweeting. He apparently goes down the list and asks about each of them one by one.

Such dedication.
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Meanwhile, Trump, the boss of high-pressure sales tactics:






I think we now know what Trump does all day besides tweeting. He apparently goes down the list and asks about each of them one by one.

Such dedication.
lol.gif
lol.gif

I get these on my phone, at least one or two a day. I made the mistake of answering one of those online "what do you think of Trump" questionnaires. I answered honestly with as much venom as possible, but they never read it (obviously). They just harvested my phone number and now I get the texts from any Republican you can think of. Newt, Mitch, McCarthy, Dan Crenshaw... in addition to all the usual suspects. They all want a piece of my "fortune" LOL...

Just today I got the exciting news that Trump's TownHall was so epic that they are extending the 500% match until midnight. They assure me that Trump can't win without me! Man do I feel special...
 
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I get these on my phone, at least one or two a day. I made the mistake of answering one of those online "what do you think of Trump" questionnaires. I answered honestly with as much venom as possible, but they never read it (obviously). They just harvested my phone number and now I get the texts from any Republican you can think of. Newt, Mitch, McCarthy, Dan Crenshaw... in addition to all the usual suspects. They all want a piece of my "fortune" LOL...

Just today I got the exciting news that Trump's TownHall was so epic that they are extending the 500% match until midnight. They assure me that Trump can't win without me! Man do I feel special...
Good to know for sure Trump’s gonna lose...
 
I get these on my phone, at least one or two a day. I made the mistake of answering one of those online "what do you think of Trump" questionnaires. I answered honestly with as much venom as possible, but they never read it (obviously). They just harvested my phone number and now I get the texts from any Republican you can think of. Newt, Mitch, McCarthy, Dan Crenshaw... in addition to all the usual suspects. They all want a piece of my "fortune" LOL...

Just today I got the exciting news that Trump's TownHall was so epic that they are extending the 500% match until midnight. They assure me that Trump can't win without me! Man do I feel special...

lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif


They have a General Elections here on the 10th of June. Thank god they don't have these robocalls here -- though I doubt I would be on any list since I can't vote.
 
Closer as in all those states are states Trump won in 2016, and OH being close is really bad news? Texas, AZ, and IA being close is also bad news?

Just not sure what you mean by saying they're closer than the "national polls" suggest? Trump has to win virtually ALL of those states to eke out another EC victory. I mean it's obvious we're not seriously including any 2016 Blue states in the battleground, because there is no indication Trump can pick any of them up. Except maybe NH, with it's 4 EVs...

I'm saying he's down by like 10 nationally but it's a lot closer in the battleground states. I think the latest Quinnipiac poll had OH has a dead heat. There hasn't been a candidate in like 60 years that won OH and didn't win the White House, right? MI is within the margin of error I believe. Trump is definitely not the favorite anymore but he's not out either.
 
June 24-26 Gallup poll Dukakis 46, Bush 41
July 21-22 Gallup poll. Dukakis 55, Bush 38
September 14-19 Gallup poll Dukakis 42, Bush 47

Bush went on to win over 400 electroral votes and 40 states including IL and California (neither of which have been carried by a Republican presidential candidate since). A lot changed in two months, between July and September, and can again. I agree that it is way, way too early to count Trump out.
 
Bush went on to win over 400 electroral votes and 40 states including IL and California (neither of which have been carried by a Republican presidential candidate since). A lot changed in two months, between July and September, and can again. I agree that it is way, way too early to count Trump out.
Willie Horton happened.
 
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Democrats renew health care attacks on GOP as virus builds

https://apnews.com/01a26c1e578120bf1226db80bcd8b44c

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democrats are intensifying their attacks on President Donald Trump and his Republican allies over health care, hoping that an issue that helped lift the party during the 2018 midterms will prove even more resonant as the White House seeks to repeal the Affordable Care Act during a public health crisis.

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, told an audience in the swing state of Pennsylvania this week that efforts to undermine the Obama-era health care law were “cruel” and “callous.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called Trump “beyond stupid” for trying to roll back the law and introduced legislation that would expand the scope of the overhaul, essentially daring Republicans to vote against it.
[...]
Still, the Trump administration filed a brief Thursday urging the Supreme Court to strike down the health care law in its entirety, in support of a lawsuit brought by Texas and other conservative states against it. The brief came on a day that the U.S. saw a record number of new coronavirus cases, with 37,077 reported Thursday.

If the lawsuit is successful, some 20 million Americans could lose their health coverage, and protections for people with preexisting health conditions also would be put at risk.
[...]
“We are literally battling the worst pandemic in 100 years. And Washington Republicans are dead set on being the biggest threat to public health,” she said.

She said the Democratic health care message would be, “Democrats are the party of health care. Republicans are the party of drinking bleach.”​
the-new-republican-healthcare-plan-seems-pretty-sound-aker-gov-more-25938542.png
 
I'm saying he's down by like 10 nationally but it's a lot closer in the battleground states. I think the latest Quinnipiac poll had OH has a dead heat. There hasn't been a candidate in like 60 years that won OH and didn't win the White House, right? MI is within the margin of error I believe. Trump is definitely not the favorite anymore but he's not out either.

I actually think it's the battleground state polling that is driving the narrative that he's beaten. First of all because of states like TX, GA, and OH that are being included as "battlegrounds" in the first place and then secondly because the best Trump is doing in polling from those states is tied or slightly behind.

I had basically written off OH as a blue or even purple state due to demographic shifts and the state seemingly,along with IA, breaking away from the more Dem states in the midwest. But Trump not only trailing there but spending $$ there (and Iowa as well) can not be considered anything but extremely dangerous for his prospects...

Ohio is a state NO Republican can win the Presidency without (Trump won it by 8%), but Clinton would still have won had she been able to hold MI, PA, and WI. Going into 2020 Trump had to view Ohio as a fait accompli. He won it by 8% in 2016, and while MI, PA, and WI (states he won by under 1 %, all elected Dem Senators and Govs in 2018) Ohio re-elected Brown but put a Pub in the Governor's Mansion. So while Team Trump knew MI, WI and PA were going to be tough, they had to feel Ohio was pretty safe.

Ohio polling showing Biden tied or with a lead is HUGE, as is polling in FL. Losing either of those states basically puts Trump on life support-he just doesn't have viable options to replace them with. Early on they talked of Minnesota and possibly NM, but those are not showing the miracle they were hoping for. I think most analysts consider MI sliding away,as well as PA-when you say the margin of error you may be thinking IA.

Trump has been down double digits in MI since the 2018 midterms and never really cut into that. Biden crushed the MI Primary, and the state added about 230,000 more Dem Primary voters in 2020 than voted for Clinton and Bernie combined in 2016. That added 230,000 votes cast in 2020 is huge for a state Trump only won by 10,000 votes in 2016. That indicates that people who either didn't vote in 2016 or maybe voted for Trump turned out in 2020 to vote for Biden. In the latest NYT poll Trump is not only down 11 pts in MI, but he is at 36%, basically equating to the numbers of people represented by the anti-Wittmer protestors who squawked loudly but were a distinct minority.

The GOP felt that John James might have a shot to unseat freshman Senator Gary Peters in MI, in what is basically their only shot to pick up a seat aside from Jones in AL. But James (who is AA) is down by 10 pts and his campaign is just not resonating with Black voters. The animosity Trump has shown to MI, and Detroit in particular while Blacks suffered disproportionately with regards to COVID is not helping James, although he is trying to distance himself from Trump. The Times analysis paints a grim prospect for Trump in MI, and nearly the same level of danger in both NC and AZ, where he is also dragging down 2 very vulnerable GOP Senators...

"And in an era when Senate races increasingly mirror the presidential preference of a given state, there is little McSally and Tillis may be able to do to overcome Trump’s current drag on their party. The president trails Biden by 7 percentage points in Arizona and nine in North Carolina. Trump is capturing the support of only 41% of Arizona voters and 40% of North Carolinians.

The president’s prospects are even more dire in Michigan, where the poll shows he is losing to Biden by 11 points, capturing just 36% of the vote in a state he narrowly carried four years ago."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-sagging-popularity-drags-down-123058512.html
 
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Donald Trump has been a continuous growing dumpster fire since before inauguration. Unlike his predecessors he has a track record of being unable to learn anything from prior mistakes. The only really remaining question is how far down is he going to drag the country before he is booted out of office. After the last week or so I am no longer afraid that he might be able to put together some electoral college gymnastics to get reelected. But I am afraid that he will tear down this country even more and inflict even more harm on millions of people.
 
Donald Trump has been a continuous growing dumpster fire since before inauguration. Unlike his predecessors he has a track record of being unable to learn anything from prior mistakes. The only really remaining question is how far down is he going to drag the country before he is booted out of office. After the last week or so I am no longer afraid that he might be able to put together some electoral college gymnastics to get reelected. But I am afraid that he will tear down this country even more and inflict even more harm on millions of people.

I was talking about the CNBC and Trafalgar polls but who knows if they're accurate at all.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/Michigan.html
 


There's still an eternity left but I think Nate Silver's analysis over the weekend that Trump is a deeper hole than at any point 2016 is pretty accurate, especially with the number of people who said they won't consider voting for Trump.

I'm also not seeing an obvious path outside of COVID-19 magically going away and the economy roaring back (combined with some bad Biden gaffes/scandals) for Trump to recover. "Sleepy Joe" just lowers expectations for Biden going into the debates.

I'm not seeing a disciplined campaign at all from Trump's side, and Parscale's vaunted "Death Star" got embarrassing by a bunch of K-Pop pranksters. Their money advantage is getting bled away by grifting and having to dump resources into running ads in Texas, etc. The Lincoln Project is the most effective outside SuperPAC at this point and they've been able to set the narrative with their attack ads against Trump and bait him into responding.

I'm not going to make the mistake again of saying Trump has no chance, but he's not in a good position at all right now.
 
The NBC/WSJ poll from July 6, 2004 had Kerry beating Dubya by 8. He was actually up in almost all of the polls from the 4th until Labor Day if I remember correctly. And again I guarantee you that there is a closet Trump vote. How big it is we won't know until election day but it's there guaranteed. It's not over. If the Dems had an Obama or Bill Clinton as their nominee it would be over but they don't.
 
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The NBC/WSJ poll from July 6, 2004 had Kerry beating Dubya by 8. He was actually up in almost all of the polls from the 4th until Labor Day if I remember correctly. And again I guarantee you that there is a closet Trump vote. How big it is we won't know until election day but it's there guaranteed. It's not over. If the Dems had an Obama or Bill Clinton as their nominee it would be over but they don't.

That race came down to Ohio and FL. Those are states Trump already won in 2016, so the fact that he's struggling there already shows he's in more trouble than he was in 2016. Fl is especially a huge problem, because DeSantis is following the Trump line on the virus and the situation is growing exponentially worse on a daily basis...

Just saw something where over the weekend 11 out of something like 200 Jacksonville Firefighters tested positive. That's a problem because Trump is set to receive the GOP Nomination in Jacksonville in August. So COVID is going to be an issue,and city officials are already requesting the RNC be postponed, which of course Trump is loath to do...

Another issue will emerge into the public consciousness the closer we get to Trump's Convention. Just like in Tulsa, the day that Trump is set to give his acceptance speech is another infamous date in the City's racial relations history. Not exactly Team Trump's fault, since the Convention was originally scheduled for Charlotte.

But Aug 27 is the 60th Anniversary of ax-handle Saturday in Jacksonville. On Aug 27, 1960 a group of young Black students decided to sit at a public lunch counter that was designated "Whites only". This article from 10 yrs ago recounts the events...

"On a sweltering summer day 50 years ago, the street outside was shattered with screams and spattered with blood.

Black youth, attempting to sit down at a whites-only lunch counter for hamburgers and egg salad sandwiches, were accosted by an angry mob wielding ax handles.

Times-Union 50th Anniversary Coverage of Ax Handle Saturday, Aug. 27, 1960

Warnings to FBI fell on deaf ears

A day of defiance in black and white

Family narrowly escaped Ax Handle Saturday violence

Coming home to chaos in the streets

Teen was at center of the storm

Alton Yates risked his life for a principle

Mark Woods: A day of dishonor for us, too

Key players in Ax Handle Saturday

‘Commemoration isn’t a celebration’ of Ax Handle Saturday

Ax Handle memorial, a somber reminder

And suddenly, all of downtown became a melee, leaving dozens of bystanders wounded - and giving Jacksonville a national reputation for violence.

Aug. 27, 1960, now known as Ax Handle Saturday, became a turning point in the city’s race relations. Half a century later, some are hoping it again will be a rallying cry."

https://www.jacksonville.com/article/20100822/NEWS/801246165
 
I was talking about the CNBC and Trafalgar polls but who knows if they're accurate at all.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/Michigan.html

I would say the GOP is relying on Likely Voters (LV) polls which usually oversample GOP leaning voters, being more accurate than Registered voters, RV (which the NYT poll sampled). However, in light of midterm 2018 turnout of Dem voters and increased participation by Dem Primary voters in 2020 over 2016, I would say that RVs may be a far more representative sampling of the upcoming electorate which LV polls sometimes miss.

Dems got 10 Million more House votes and 11 Million more Senate votes than GOP candidates in 2018, and by all indications and Trump's dismal numbers, those voters are still just as engaged as before if not more. Even Ohio which bucked the rest of the crucial upper midwest states that voted Trump in 2016 and then turned around and went completely Blue in 2018, voted a moderate GOP Governor (as opposed to Trump loyalist) into the Governor's chair.

If you disregard Ruby Red states Trumpism had clearly lost its luster in the midwest by the 2018 midterms, and nothing indicates it's ready to make a comeback. In fact, even in Iowa Trump is tied at best and Joni Ernst is actually trailing in her bid for re-election. Of course, Trump is conspicuously absent from her campaign ads, as well...
 
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LOL

Jacksonville, new site for President Trump’s convention speech, will require masks in public, indoors


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...e-trump-speak-now-requiring-masks/3279391001/

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – Jacksonville, where the Republican National Committee moved the party’s convention so President Donald Trump could accept the GOP nomination in a packed arena, announced Monday that it is requiring face masks in public and indoor locations.

City officials said they haven’t decided whether to require masks during the convention, which is scheduled Aug. 24-27. The policy also applies to anyone else who can’t socially distance. The mask order goes into effect Monday evening.​
 


There's still an eternity left but I think Nate Silver's analysis over the weekend that Trump is a deeper hole than at any point 2016 is pretty accurate, especially with the number of people who said they won't consider voting for Trump.

I'm also not seeing an obvious path outside of COVID-19 magically going away and the economy roaring back (combined with some bad Biden gaffes/scandals) for Trump to recover. "Sleepy Joe" just lowers expectations for Biden going into the debates.

I'm not seeing a disciplined campaign at all from Trump's side, and Parscale's vaunted "Death Star" got embarrassing by a bunch of K-Pop pranksters. Their money advantage is getting bled away by grifting and having to dump resources into running ads in Texas, etc. The Lincoln Project is the most effective outside SuperPAC at this point and they've been able to set the narrative with their attack ads against Trump and bait him into responding.

I'm not going to make the mistake again of saying Trump has no chance, but he's not in a good position at all right now.

There are even whispers of drastic steps being contemplated...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277280827462868994.html

How does a "correspondent" for any news service even FBN, miss the difference between a snap "shop" and a snapshot?
 
Project Fear:



Of course, anyone with half a brain can see the playbook, but then, that's the problem isn't it? Unlike the rival adverts where they are using his own words, here he is using clips out of context.
 
Since WW2, only 2 elected Presidents have failed to win re election.

And Trump has worse numbers than either of them.

There is precedent for Trump being an outlier. He's the only POTUS ever Impeached in a single term. He's one of only two men elected POTUS since the dawn of the 20th Century who lost the popular vote. And he made a mockery of previous losing margins, shattering the previous record of 250,000 votes or so that Hayes lost the popular vote to Tilden by in 1888. And other than Trump no POTUS was ever elected with as little as 46% of the total votes cast...

Future Historians are going to be dumbstruck by the events of the past 4 yrs and the Trump cult will likely make the "know-nothings" look like geniuses by comparison. I firmly believe the future US is going to become synonymous with what I experienced in Germany.
Just as no German vets I encountered in my 6 yrs of living in Germany would ever admit to fighting US troops (they ALL only fought vs the Russians), 40 yrs from now no one is going to be willing to admit they voted for Trump.
 
And Trump has worse numbers than either of them.

There is precedent for Trump being an outlier. He's the only POTUS ever Impeached in a single term. He's one of only two men elected POTUS since the dawn of the 20th Century who lost the popular vote. And he made a mockery of previous losing margins, shattering the previous record of 250,000 votes or so that Hayes lost the popular vote to Tilden by in 1888. And other than Trump no POTUS was ever elected with as little as 46% of the total votes cast...

Future Historians are going to be dumbstruck by the events of the past 4 yrs and the Trump cult will likely make the "know-nothings" look like geniuses by comparison. I firmly believe the future US is going to become synonymous with what I experienced in Germany.
Just as no German vets I encountered in my 6 yrs of living in Germany would ever admit to fighting US troops (they ALL only fought vs the Russians), 40 yrs from now no one is going to be willing to admit they voted for Trump.
Many didn't vote for Trump. They voted against Hillary. Either way, we were screwed.
 
There is a poll out of Wisconsin today on Realclearpolitics.com showing Trump up. And close in PA. He's not dead yet.
 
I've been chomping to start a thread like this for a while, but kept wondering if it was too early to gain participation. So thanks for stepping out and getting it started...

I'm going to distinguish my picks between states that went Red in 2016 that I feel will switch, and Red states that will be a lot closer than you'd normally think...

Biden pick-ups
PA
MI
WI
FL
NC
IA
GA (got a feeling...)
AZ

Narrow Trump wins
OH
SC
TX

Dems p/u IA, ME, CO, MT, NC in Senate, with an outside shot at 1 GA seat and SC is VERY close...AL too close to call, with GOP Primary pending...

If TX goes for Biden that’s it. Just stop counting at that point.
 
And Trump has worse numbers than either of them.

There is precedent for Trump being an outlier. He's the only POTUS ever Impeached in a single term. He's one of only two men elected POTUS since the dawn of the 20th Century who lost the popular vote. And he made a mockery of previous losing margins, shattering the previous record of 250,000 votes or so that Hayes lost the popular vote to Tilden by in 1888. And other than Trump no POTUS was ever elected with as little as 46% of the total votes cast...

Future Historians are going to be dumbstruck by the events of the past 4 yrs and the Trump cult will likely make the "know-nothings" look like geniuses by comparison. I firmly believe the future US is going to become synonymous with what I experienced in Germany.
Just as no German vets I encountered in my 6 yrs of living in Germany would ever admit to fighting US troops (they ALL only fought vs the Russians), 40 yrs from now no one is going to be willing to admit they voted for Trump.
A good portion of his base will be dead in 20. Facebook grandma’s, golf cart drivers in Florida, etc
 
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