Was the IPFW loss last year an omen of things to come?

[wiede]

Yes this team is very capable and talented when all the parts are healthy but that has not happen since really early in the season.

We are literally practicing with 5-6 healthy players.

That’s not called practice at that point. Kind of hard to work on things with those #’s.

It’s insanity that fills are calling for Archie’s head right now. If our roster was healthy (even with a few injuries), we’d be much better than we are.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Yes this team is very capable and talented when all the parts are healthy but that has not happen since really early in the season.

Isn’t it amazing how having veteran guys as complimentary pieced impacts performance?

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

McRoberts is not a starter neither is Davis to this point Davis has been a huge disappointment. A football coach needs to develop 105 players vs 13 for a basketball coach..

Football doesn’t have OAD players, either,

 

[Cutter1973]

I'll give you that.

I actually thought he was okay last year. We we're better than we started. Of course we started as low as possible.

But that starting lineup of Morgan, McSwain, McRoberts, Johnson and Newkirk is about as challenged as you can find for a high major. Smith contributed as a freshman too.

I gave him a B. Up from an F to start the year and the excuse that it was a shocking change.

This year we supposedly upgraded our talent. Romeo took over for Johnson was the big one. Phinesse was supposed to be an upgrade over Newkirk even as a freshman. Brought in a boatload of wings and forwards, surely one was going to emerge out of Smith, Hunter, Thompson, Anderson, Moore, Forrester. Surely someone would be an upgrade to Freddy.

No, we're worse. Blame injuries. Blame chemistry. Blame overrating talent.

But this is on Archie. He's lost the locker room and that's his main job.

If it continues he'll get an F for this year.

Does it mean we're doomed. I don't think so but I'll admit when a coach loses the fanbase it's pretty much over (see Alford, Weber, Turgeon, Crean) and it's best to move swiftly.

I like Archie. I would like to see if he can get us winning again so unless there's an obvious guy like Stevens available I'm giving him at least four years.

But it shouldn't take four years to get to the tournament.

He was going to do it in two until he lost the locker room. So again...F.

Must be pretty awesome to have locker room access like you do. You must be really important to be able to be in the locker room. What’s it like? Can you share some locker room stories?

 

[Al Bino]

Billy Donovan by year 3 was in sweet sixteen, Brad Stevens Ncaa runner up, Bruce Pearl sweet 16, Kelvin Sampson sweet sixteen, Bob Knight was 23-5 year 3, Tom Izzo sweet sixteen, Rick Pitino elite eight Roy Williams Ncaa Runner up. So to me by year 3 if were not a sweet sixteen team there is something wrong.

And coach K had a losing record in his third year.

Just looking at win loss records without taking the whole into account is to near sighted IMO.

 

[fpeaugh]

You DO realize this was the first time all season that a likely starter on the team (Davis) played meaningful minutes?

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

 

[speroni]

McRoberts is not a starter neither is Davis to this point Davis has been a huge disappointment. A football coach needs to develop 105 players vs 13 for a basketball coach..

McRoberts started the first two games of the season before he got injured. He is a starter. Davis was a starter last year and was expected to return to the starting lineup after he recovered from surgery. To say he has been a huge disappointment would be akin to saying that Morgan was a huge disappointment against MSU because he only scored five points. He's been playing hurt all season and hasn't been able to play meaningful minutes until the last game.

A football coach needs to develop more players than a basketball coach? Who knew? It isn't about the quantity of players. It's about taking teenaged kids and making them better. It's about having a team of players that you have recruited yourself - your own team - and guiding them. It's about quality, not quantity. Doesn't matter if it's 13 or 105 players.

 

[speroni]

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

Are you being serious? Morgan has barely played in any of those games until MSU. Archie has said on many occasions how he would have liked to use Davis more, but that he was either still recovering, or in pain from additional injuries. This was the first game where he looked like Davis from last year - where he was obviously able to go for extended minutes.

Davis has been healthy most of the year? What have you been smoking?

 

[jsig]

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

This has to be Schtick to stir up the pot.

Do you even watch the games? Davis couldn't even run up and down the court without a serious limp for like 2 months.

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

I think Purdue and IU missed on that Konchar kid at PFW. Scores. Rebounds. Man he plays hard.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

McRoberts is not a starter neither is Davis to this point Davis has been a huge disappointment. A football coach needs to develop 105 players vs 13 for a basketball coach..

So stupid. Also, when you're getting "likes" from @fpeagh, you have gone full retard. Never go full retard.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

WTF is wrong with you? Davis hasn't been healthy AT ALL this season. The 1st few games he could barely run or jump. His play @ MSU was the 1st time all year that he's looked even slightly healthy. He's a large man coming back from a torn Achilles and had been attempting to play his way back into shape. Archie and medical staff had to "shut him down" for nearly a month and he finally returned and finally looked slightly healthy for the 1st time all year on Saturday. You really are a stupid Mofo.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Davis has been healthy most of the year? What have you been smoking?

Don't you dare besmirch the wonders of cannabis with this lying moron's constant trolling.

 

[fpeaugh]

Are you being serious? Morgan has barely played in any of those games until MSU. Archie has said on many occasions how he would have liked to use Davis more, but that he was either still recovering, or in pain from additional injuries. This was the first game where he looked like Davis from last year - where he was obviously able to go for extended minutes.

Davis has been healthy most of the year? What have you been smoking?

He played significant minutes against Marquette, Louisville, Arkansas, and Duke.

Everyone complains about Davis when he plays. Everyone builds Davis up to be the savior when he doesn’t. It’s tough to keep straight.

 

[fpeaugh]

WTF is wrong with you? Davis hasn't been healthy AT ALL this season. The 1st few games he could barely run or jump. His play @ MSU was the 1st time all year that he's looked even slightly healthy. He's a large man coming back from a torn Achilles and had been attempting to play his way back into shape. Archie and medical staff had to "shut him down" for nearly a month and he finally returned and finally looked slightly healthy for the 1st time all year on Saturday. You really are a stupid Mofo.

Davis wasn’t quick or athletic before the injury. And he’s only missed 5 games all year. He played significant minutes early in the season against Marquette, Arkansas, Louisville, Duke, etc.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Davis wasn’t quick or athletic before the injury. And he’s only missed 5 games all year. He played significant minutes early in the season against Marquette, Arkansas, Louisville, Duke, etc.

Man you really are stupid AF. It's 2019 and the internet exists. Maybe you weren't aware of that, but it's a fact. That means I can go and look at how many minutes Davis has played throughout the season, and how many minutes he played in the games you are referencing.

Let's start with this though. Before Saturday's game, Davis had played a TOTAL of 155 minutes over 16 games. That means he's averaged LESS THAN 10 minutes per game in the games he's actually played. He's also got 5 DNP's. On Saturday he played his season high, 25 minutes, and it's only the 2nd time all season he's eclipsed the 20 minute barrier.

Now here's where you're going to try to change the goal posts and try to argue that "significant" minutes means like 10 minutes. I'm going to go ahead and tell you that's BS and anything less than 20 minutes, which is half a game, is not "significant".

MSU - 25 Mins
Arkansas - 23 Mins
Butler - 16 Mins
Duke - 15 Mins
Marquette - 15 Mins
Louisville - 14 Mins
Chicago St. - 12 Mins
Montana St. - 11 Mins
Central Arkansas - 10 Mins

Those are the only 9 games that he's played double digit minutes in and anyone that has been watching knows that @ MSU was the 1st time he's looked even slightly healthy all season. Davis has never been quick, but of course he's athletic. That said, with all his ailments it's certainly been affected negatively. A healthy Davis for the rest of the season would be like adding a new player. It was the difference in our win on Saturday for sure. He even hit some huge FT's taboot.

 

[IU Scott]

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

We have only lost one game this year when both Green and Davis played more than 5 in the same game. This kind of shows that when have some of your experience players play you win more games.

 

[TommyCracker]

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

And we were what 11-2 and ranked when he rolled his ankle vs Illinois, coming off an achilles injury.

Since then he played in 3 of the next 7 games with a minute high of....4.

Read your post again out loud and listen to how stupid you sound.

 

[coachv jr]

Don't you dare besmirch the wonders of cannabis with this lying moron's constant trolling.

i figured it was crack

 

[coachv jr]

Man you really are stupid AF. It's 2019 and the internet exists. Maybe you weren't aware of that, but it's a fact. That means I can go and look at how many minutes Davis has played throughout the season, and how many minutes he played in the games you are referencing.

Let's start with this though. Before Saturday's game, Davis had played a TOTAL of 155 minutes over 16 games. That means he's averaged LESS THAN 10 minutes per game in the games he's actually played. He's also got 5 DNP's. On Saturday he played his season high, 25 minutes, and it's only the 2nd time all season he's eclipsed the 20 minute barrier.

Now here's where you're going to try to change the goal posts and try to argue that "significant" minutes means like 10 minutes. I'm going to go ahead and tell you that's BS and anything less than 20 minutes, which is half a game, is not "significant".

MSU - 25 Mins
Arkansas - 23 Mins
Butler - 16 Mins
Duke - 15 Mins
Marquette - 15 Mins
Louisville - 14 Mins
Chicago St. - 12 Mins
Montana St. - 11 Mins
Central Arkansas - 10 Mins

Those are the only 9 games that he's played double digit minutes in and anyone that has been watching knows that @ MSU was the 1st time he's looked even slightly healthy all season. Davis has never been quick, but of course he's athletic. That said, with all his ailments it's certainly been affected negatively. A healthy Davis for the rest of the season would be like adding a new player. It was the difference in our win on Saturday for sure. He even hit some huge FT's taboot.

taboot. lol

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

taboot. lol

Phish: Llama (Taboot! Taboot!)

 

[iubud]

i was concerned when that happened, but many observers dismissed it. They had many justifications as to why Iu lost and weren’t concerned about coaching. Should that ever happen?

What about when ISU made almost every 3 point shot they took while we stood and watched? Was that an omen or just a team that had a bad back court and poor overall talent?

Archie is starting to get the roster rebuilt and he will add pieces every year. We have some good freshmen returning and we expect another good class coming in.

I thought Archie did as much with our team last year as anyone could have expected.

 

[fpeaugh]

Man you really are stupid AF. It's 2019 and the internet exists. Maybe you weren't aware of that, but it's a fact. That means I can go and look at how many minutes Davis has played throughout the season, and how many minutes he played in the games you are referencing.

Let's start with this though. Before Saturday's game, Davis had played a TOTAL of 155 minutes over 16 games. That means he's averaged LESS THAN 10 minutes per game in the games he's actually played. He's also got 5 DNP's. On Saturday he played his season high, 25 minutes, and it's only the 2nd time all season he's eclipsed the 20 minute barrier.

Now here's where you're going to try to change the goal posts and try to argue that "significant" minutes means like 10 minutes. I'm going to go ahead and tell you that's BS and anything less than 20 minutes, which is half a game, is not "significant".

MSU - 25 Mins
Arkansas - 23 Mins
Butler - 16 Mins
Duke - 15 Mins
Marquette - 15 Mins
Louisville - 14 Mins
Chicago St. - 12 Mins
Montana St. - 11 Mins
Central Arkansas - 10 Mins

Those are the only 9 games that he's played double digit minutes in and anyone that has been watching knows that @ MSU was the 1st time he's looked even slightly healthy all season. Davis has never been quick, but of course he's athletic. That said, with all his ailments it's certainly been affected negatively. A healthy Davis for the rest of the season would be like adding a new player. It was the difference in our win on Saturday for sure. He even hit some huge FT's taboot.

You pretty much confirmed everything I said. Yes, Davis was big on Saturday. We needed him to win that game. But he wouldn’t have played more than 15 or so minutes had Morgan not gone out then OT.

He was healthy early in the year, then went out, and now is back. You have a lousy memory if you don’t remember his good games against Marquette and Arkansas.

 

[fpeaugh]

We have only lost one game this year when both Green and Davis played more than 5 in the same game. This kind of shows that when have some of your experience players play you win more games.

Correlation is not always causation.

 

[fpeaugh]

And we were what 11-2 and ranked when he rolled his ankle vs Illinois, coming off an achilles injury.

Since then he played in 3 of the next 7 games with a minute high of....4.

Read your post again out loud and listen to how stupid you sound.

You and Scott need to take a statistics 101 class.

Correlation and causation aren’t the same thing.

It’s like saying we’ve been good in every month besides January. As long as we don’t have to play another game in January the rest of the season we’ll do great. No...that’s not exactly how it works. Sure there’s a correlation but not necessarily a causation.

 

[T.M.P.]

This has to be Schtick to stir up the pot.

Do you even watch the games? Davis couldn't even run up and down the court without a serious limp for like 2 months.

He doesn't know anything about basketball. Not even the basic fundamentals - so his opinion should probably be ignored or laughed at. I choose the latter.

 

[speroni]

You and Scott need to take a statistics 101 class.

Correlation and causation aren’t the same thing.

It’s like saying we’ve been good in every month besides January. As long as we don’t have to play another game in January the rest of the season we’ll do great. No...that’s not exactly how it works. Sure there’s a correlation but not necessarily a causation.

Oh, this is fun...

I wonder when doing statistical analysis of the efficacy in a drug study, they factor out how far away each person who takes the drug is from Caracas. They don't? You mean that drug studies are then worthless and inaccurate?

When doing research, one discovers what the probable cause of an effect is. Let's see... is it more likely that IU played better basketball on Saturday because it was raining in California? Or maybe because it was February 2nd, which is a much luckier day than January 30th. Or maybe we'll go with the most obvious answer... hmmm... what was the biggest difference in this game than the others during that losing streak? What could it be? I wonder... maybe that De'Ron Davis was playing healthier and with less pain than he has this entire season? Nah... couldn't be that.

 

[TommyCracker]

Oh, this is fun...

I wonder when doing statistical analysis of the efficacy in a drug study, they factor out how far away each person who takes the drug is from Caracas. They don't? You mean that drug studies are then worthless and inaccurate?

When doing research, one discovers what the probable cause of an effect is. Let's see... is it more likely that IU played better basketball on Saturday because it was raining in California? Or maybe because it was February 2nd, which is a much luckier day than January 30th. Or maybe we'll go with the most obvious answer... hmmm... what was the biggest difference in this game than the others during that losing streak? What could it be? I wonder... maybe that De'Ron Davis was playing healthier and with less pain than he has this entire season? Nah... couldn't be that.

No, the fact that Davis was able to give us a real post option offensively and defensively for the first time in a month was just a random circumstance for why we won.

How about when our starters actual beat Maryland and Michigan on the road but our bench couldn't sustain it...funny how Davis was out for those games too.

There's no correlation there. Fitzner and Moore are definitely as good or better battling in the post as a half way healthy Davis is.

Wait what, you mean having a 260 pound post who is actually a threat allows for your best player to play some minutes at the four or give him a legit break so he doesn't have to battle for 36 minutes a game with dudes who are taller and heavier?

Naaah...that doesn't change a thing.

 

[snarlcakes]

Oh, this is fun...

I wonder when doing statistical analysis of the efficacy in a drug study, they factor out how far away each person who takes the drug is from Caracas. They don't? You mean that drug studies are then worthless and inaccurate?

When doing research, one discovers what the probable cause of an effect is. Let's see... is it more likely that IU played better basketball on Saturday because it was raining in California? Or maybe because it was February 2nd, which is a much luckier day than January 30th. Or maybe we'll go with the most obvious answer... hmmm... what was the biggest difference in this game than the others during that losing streak? What could it be? I wonder... maybe that De'Ron Davis was playing healthier and with less pain than he has this entire season? Nah... couldn't be that.

The biggest difference in the MSU game in comparison to the 7 we lost is we shot 10-20 from 3s and MSU shot 8-22 from the free throw line. Of course Davis helped and we lose the game if he doesn’t play.

 

[T.M.P.]

No, the fact that Davis was able to give us a real post option offensively and defensively for the first time in a month was just a random circumstance for why we won.

How about when our starters actual beat Maryland and Michigan on the road but our bench couldn't sustain it...funny how Davis was out for those games too.

There's no correlation there. Fitzner and Moore are definitely as good or better battling in the post as a half way healthy Davis is.

Wait what, you mean having a 260 pound post who is actually a threat allows for your best player to play some minutes at the four or give him a legit break so he doesn't have to battle for 36 minutes a game with dudes who are taller and heavier?

Naaah...that doesn't change a thing.

This guy is a clown and thinks like a clown. He believes because we're not "team fire Arch" that we're "team Arch" and that's the only two possible conditions available and since he is "team fire Arch" that anyone that isn't were Crean fans. That is literally teenage Justin Bieber fan level reasoning.

He has a very childlike mind ..

His lack of reasoning, lack of knowledge, lack of integrity and lack of logic permeates everything he writes in opinion. The dude is either too dumb know how dumb he is or just a troll. Regardless he is by far the worst poster I've ever seen on this board.... his ignorance is astounding enough but what's even worse is the reasoning he exhibits..

He will change opinions, rationalize, move measures to fit his argument, revise history, create slippery slopes of certain doom, cherry pick facts, use hyperbole, and even lie in an attempt to make himself look wise.. It's always him against the world - "them" "they" "people" - which he somehow can never prove existed and that he's the only one that's ever correct.

Fascinating study in hubris formed from a severe case of Dunning Kruger Effect.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Are you being serious? Davis has played in 17 of 22 games this year. He wouldn’t have played those minutes had Morgan not gotten hurt. Davis has been healthy most of the year.

Wrong.

Prior to Saturday, Davis had played a total of FIFTEEN MINUTES since the calendar rolled to 2019.

But hey, CDK, continue on with your narrative . . .

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

This guy is a clown and thinks like a clown. He believes because we're not "team fire Arch" that we're "team Arch" and that's the only two possible conditions available and since he is "team fire Arch" that anyone that isn't were Crean fans. That is literally teenage Justin Bieber fan level reasoning.

He has a very childlike mind ..

His lack of reasoning, lack of knowledge, lack of integrity and lack of logic permeates everything he writes in opinion. The dude is either too dumb know how dumb he is or just a troll. Regardless he is by far the worst poster I've ever seen on this board.... his ignorance is astounding enough but what's even worse is the reasoning he exhibits..

He will change opinions, rationalize, move measures to fit his argument, revise history, create slippery slopes of certain doom, cherry pick facts, use hyperbole, and even lie in an attempt to make himself look wise.. and it's always him against the world "them" "they" "people" which he somehow can never prove existed and that he's the only one that's correct.

Fascinating study in hubris formed from Dunning Kruger Effect.

Add to that the occasional dropped hint that he has inside information without ever coming close to revealing a source, and you have the makings of a real douche.

 

[T.M.P.]

Add to that the occasional dropped hint that he has inside information without ever coming close to revealing a source, and you have the makings of a real douche.

He also claimed he went "fishing with a coach" as a validation of his basketball knowledge.

He reasons like a child and not a gifted one.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

maybe that De'Ron Davis was playing healthier and with less pain than he has this entire season? Nah... couldn't be that.

Let’s take this a step further

Saturday was the 1st time since Butler that both Deron and Devonte were able to play more than 15 minutes in a game. Think that made a difference?

 

[TommyCracker]

The biggest difference in the MSU game in comparison to the 7 we lost is we shot 10-20 from 3s and MSU shot 8-22 from the free throw line. Of course Davis helped and we lose the game if he doesn’t play.

Davis had 4 assists passing out of the post.

He's always been gifted offensively, even with his old man game.

He's incredibly gifted offensively in half court offense.

One of our biggest issues is our half court offense. A secondary concern is not having a reliable third scorer.

Davis boosted both.

He almost keeled over from exhaustion which is going to be an anchor but...15 minutes of a productive Davis helps this team tremendously, especially in our half court offense.

 

[T.M.P.]

Davis had 4 assists passing out of the post.

He's always been gifted offensively, even with his old man game.

He's incredibly gifted offensively in half court offense.

One of our biggest issues is our half court offense. A secondary concern is not having a reliable third scorer.

Davis boosted both.

He almost keeled over from exhaustion which is going to be an anchor but...15 minutes of a productive Davis helps this team tremendously, especially in our half court offense.

He can also play behind a post player instead of fronting him like Juwan does the majority of the time. Sometimes being able to handle them one on one so less doubles and rotations are needed.

It also changes how other players on the team guard, as the positioning and rotation also change based on fronting vs backing. It's always good to have options, being able to do both helps drastically.

And, it also helps control the board better because the post defender is in better position to board.

Deron gives us a different needed look both offensively and defensively and can go one on one with a player like Ward on both ends.

He of course has weaknesses like any player does, but he also has strengths so don't take it as saying he's all world or anything. < disclaimers like these are for the dumb part of our fanbase.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

You pretty much confirmed everything I said. Yes, Davis was big on Saturday. We needed him to win that game. But he wouldn’t have played more than 15 or so minutes had Morgan not gone out then OT.

He was healthy early in the year, then went out, and now is back. You have a lousy memory if you don’t remember his good games against Marquette and Arkansas.

I totally didn't confirm anything you said you lying lunatic. You are a morally bankrupt liar. I posted those games and the minutes he played in each game. Why do you keep lying? Finally, you morally corrupt piece of garbage, Davis played 25 minutes at a high level because he was finally healthy enough to do that. No other reason. Your lousy memory is an issue in every post you create.

 

[TommyCracker]

He can also play behind a post player instead of fronting him like Juwan does the majority of the time. Sometimes being able to handle them one on one so less doubles are needed.

It also changes how other players on the team guard, as the positioning and rotations also change based on fronting vs backing.

And, it also helps control the board better because the post defender is in better position to board. Deron gives us a different needed look both offensively and defensively and can go one on one with a player like Ward on both ends..

Absolutely.

I know there are stats that will tell us that Morgan is much, much more effective vs 5's than 4's on offense...but that's one slice of the pie that we can still take advantage of during games.

There's no one who can give us what Davis can on both sides. That's on Archie and his roster construction but, it's a reality with this team.

It seems 80% of the teams in the conference has a productive big. We're going to get a seven foot, 250 pound sophomore Garza this Thursday. We need a Davis to be able to give us productive post minutes cuz imagine this, it's uncanny how Iowa plays really well when Garza does.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

There's no one who can give us what Davis can on both sides. That's on Archie and his roster construction

How so?

 

[TommyCracker]

How so?

He didn't go after any big ten bigs in his first cycle especially knowing that Davis was such a question mark.

My guess has always been his ideal team is fast and lengthy. That makes sense with kids he was looking at to bring in but with his Sunday night recruiting trip it wouldn't surprise me if he has reevaluated a little.

Total speculation on my part but the Big Ten has always been a beef fest.