Tuttle and Bazelak quarterback battle

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I think if you followed the Big ten then you’d maybe have a better feel for how difficult it was for teams to prepare that year. Paul Chryst said they went nearly three weeks without being able to practice much at all. And, since our Covid hit was mostly before the abbreviated season, we weren’t as impeded by it. Couple that with TA and KW’s extremely wise strategy to exploit one of the toughest parts of the game to prepare for (pass protection), we created a huge advantage for ourselves. It doesn’t diminish what we accomplished at all, but it does help explain why, when teams could adequately prep for us, we came back to earth last year.

Once again, this was smart football and great defensive coaching by Tom Allen. If you’re still not convinced, you should watch some of the games if you can find them and you’ll see what we were able to do. I think you’ll be impressed.

Dude, just stop.

I’ve followed the Big Ten all my life. Everybody on this board knows that.

My first IU team was 1966.

I haven’t missed an IU home game for years.

I travel to as many road games as I can.

Your misinformed back handed insults that I don’t watch games are not support for your position that IU‘s 2020 defense was aided by Covid and so Warren’s 2021 defense was not as bad as people saw. It was a dumb assertion. You could have just owned it. But you just want to be a curmudgeon.

I knew you were trolling. I gave you a chance to genuinely support your position. You responded with meaningless BS.

Enjoy the season.

 

[IUCX9]

Call a coverage, select a font, select a pressure package....aka Calling plays

Like I said... it's just semantics.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

how do you know all this? are you an insider?

Other boards, google, and pure imagination.

 

[Jackskip23]

Dude, just stop.

I’ve followed the Big Ten all my life. Everybody on this board knows that.

My first IU team was 1966.

I haven’t missed an IU home game for years.

I travel to as many road games as I can.

Your misinformed back handed insults that I don’t watch games are not support for your position that IU‘s 2020 defense was aided by Covid and so Warren’s 2021 defense was not as bad as people saw. It was a dumb assertion. You could have just owned it. But you just want to be a curmudgeon.

I knew you were trolling. I gave you a chance to genuinely support your position. You responded with meaningless BS.

Enjoy the season.

I do own it, totally. The comments about watching the games were based on a couple of your posts that hinted you hadn’t seen how things flowed that season, and believing That Covid didn’t impact teams reinforced that, as did your lack of awareness as to how that impacted others more severely than it did us. As for whether Warren’s defense (it was Allen’s defense, by the way) was worse and, more importantly, why, I’m not arguing that it wasn’t bad (at least as the season went). It’s why things changed year over year that we disagree on. You seem to think that, had we blitzed 15% more in 2021 (at levels we did on 2020), we wouldn’t have gone 0-9, losing 7 in blowouts. Obviously, I don’t think that’s close to reality.

You obviously consider my views on the 2020 season as being dismissive of it, which is presumably why you’ve come at me so aggressively. That’s fine, I guess. I absolutely think it’s valid and I know some people in and and around the program who have validated it. If you’re not sure or don’t know, no problem. It was never meant as a criticism of Coach Allen. Just the opposite, actually. I thought it was a brilliant move on his and KW’s part, and it worked like a charm.

Beyond that, I’m here to talk football. I’ll let you decide why you’re here for yourself. There are some people who post here who don’t seem to have that as their overriding reason to be here. Hope that’s not the case for you.

 

[td75]

Regarding all of this blitzing talk, Allen's defense certainly performs better when he can effectively dial up CB and S blitzes.

Mullen's fumble causing sack up at Wisconsin in 2020, was a key factor in Indiana winning that game. There were multiple secondary players with huge sacks.

That's exactly when a Tom Allen defense is at its best.

 

[Jackskip23]

Regarding all of this blitzing talk, Allen's defense certainly performs better when he can effectively dial up CB and S blitzes.

Mullen's fumble causing sack up at Wisconsin in 2020, was a key factor in Indiana winning that game. There were multiple secondary players with huge sacks.

That's exactly when a Tom Allen defense is at its best.

Very true, and our top three corners all missed significant time in 2021. People forget that blitzing comes with great risk, though. Will be interesting to see how and when Coach Allen dials it up on D this year.

Go Hoosiers.

 

[kmathum]

I know my comment is 20-20 hindsight. But why didn't TA just tell him to blitz more? Every press conference he kept saying "we need to create more pressure" and "we need more takeaways". Why do you think he just let Warren continue what he was doing?

he also said after the iowa game our offensive line needs to be fixed. it never happened.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Learning to be a Head Coach takes time too.

Allen was likely trying to walk lines between “interfering” and “meddling” and trying to be a good boss, etc. Too much emphasis on LEO-ing young men and too little on field results?

“Nice guys finish last.” Leo Durocher.

My interpretation is Warren owning a military pedigree and no doubt also a very strong interview earned too much of Coach Allen's respect, certainly over impressed, which weakened or neutralized his on field evaluation criticism early on. It happens frequently with candidates whose strongest attribute is a strong interview. Much like DeBord being hired to be owner and HC of the offense. Being burned twice I seriously doubt it happens to him again. I also think it's more growth in HCing.

 

[Jackskip23]

My interpretation is Warren owning a military pedigree and no doubt also a very strong interview earned too much of Coach Allen's respect, overly impressed, which weakened or neutralized his on field evaluation criticism early on. It happens frequently with candidates whose strongest attribute is a strong interview. Much like DeBord being hired to be owner and HC of the offense. Being burned twice I seriously doubt it happens to him again. I also think it's more growth in HCing.

Keeping it from happening to him again is why Coach Allen has made himself the de facto DC. I realize Wilt was hired, but TA now owns the D again. TA greatly values recruiting prowess, and CW brought that over everything else. I don’t think it was ever a good fit, and both sides were fine to end it.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

OK. Show me.

You're the one claiming IU got to prepare fine during 2020 Covid but our opponents had practice problems due to Covid that allowed IU’s defense to be more effective than it otherwise should have been.

The stats on QB hurries and sacks disagree. I even looked through the the actual game reports and saw that our opponents put their offensive stars on the field against our defense.

If you claim those opposing offenses were prevented from proper practice by Covid - show me - prove it.

Link me some articles about how the week before our games, our opponents were being hurt by Covid. If your assertion is correct, it should be easy. Covid did not erase the internet.

I recall Big Ten cancellations early, but them they let everybody play, made them test, made them isolate and quarantine when positives showed up. Even our final 2020 game with Pee Ewe was cancelled. You claim to recall unidentified coaches saying they could barely field a practice. So show me how our defense got to play against Covid-impacted unprepared defenses. Don't just say it - show your work.

The sooner you understand that Covid affected all teams but IU, the sooner you will understand why 2020 was all luck and we suck. lol

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I do own it, totally. The comments about watching the games were based on a couple of your posts that hinted you hadn’t seen how things flowed that season, and believing That Covid didn’t impact teams reinforced that, as did your lack of awareness as to how that impacted others more severely than it did us. As for whether Warren’s defense (it was Allen’s defense, by the way) was worse and, more importantly, why, I’m not arguing that it wasn’t bad (at least as the season went). It’s why things changed year over year that we disagree on. You seem to think that, had we blitzed 15% more in 2021 (at levels we did on 2020), we wouldn’t have gone 0-9, losing 7 in blowouts. Obviously, I don’t think that’s close to reality.

You obviously consider my views on the 2020 season as being dismissive of it, which is presumably why you’ve come at me so aggressively. That’s fine, I guess. I absolutely think it’s valid and I know some people in and and around the program who have validated it. If you’re not sure or don’t know, no problem. It was never meant as a criticism of Coach Allen. Just the opposite, actually. I thought it was a brilliant move on his and KW’s part, and it worked like a charm.

Beyond that, I’m here to talk football. I’ll let you decide why you’re here for yourself. There are some people who post here who don’t seem to have that as their overriding reason to be here. Hope that’s not the case for you.

Link?

 

[Jackskip23]

Link?

Link to what? Our coach telling the media how we were preparing for teams? Or that Covid had a big impact in a compressed season where vaccines weren’t available and distancing wasn’t possible in a football complex? Or that our Covid issues were largely in the summer, while others weren’t? If you followed the conference that season, Im not sure how these things are such a mystery to you now. Again, you’re talking this as some kind of insult or diminishment of our accomplishments that year, and it’s anything but that. TA’s approach was brilliant. Sorry you can’t see that.

Go Hoosiers.

 

[TMFT]

My interpretation is Warren owning a military pedigree and no doubt also a very strong interview earned too much of Coach Allen's respect, certainly over impressed, which weakened or neutralized his on field evaluation criticism early on. It happens frequently with candidates whose strongest attribute is a strong interview. Much like DeBord being hired to be owner and HC of the offense. Being burned twice I seriously doubt it happens to him again. I also think it's more growth in HCing.

Early on, when the defense was healthy, they were pretty good. I think they were like a top 30 SP+ defense in the first half of the year before injuries took their toll. AND that was with a turnover machine at offense that couldn't stay on the field or score. Not mention that probably 30 points given up early in the year were because of a pick six, special teams run back, or turnover/return that gave the other team the ball at like the IU 35.

I'll go to my grave that the 2021 IU defense was pretty good when healthy all while playing a conventional style that didn't require high risk-high reward blitzes constantly.

 

[IUCX9]

Early on, when the defense was healthy, they were pretty good. I think they were like a top 30 SP+ defense in the first half of the year before injuries took their toll. AND that was with a turnover machine at offense that couldn't stay on the field or score. Not mention that probably 30 points given up early in the year were because of a pick six, special teams run back, or turnover/return that gave the other team the ball at like the IU 35.

I'll go to my grave that the 2021 IU defense was pretty good when healthy all while playing a conventional style that didn't require high risk-high reward blitzes constantly.

A very good defense when everyone was healthy.

We just need that quality depth to weather a B1G season.

 

[vesuvius13]

I do own it, totally. The comments about watching the games were based on a couple of your posts that hinted you hadn’t seen how things flowed that season, and believing That Covid didn’t impact teams reinforced that, as did your lack of awareness as to how that impacted others more severely than it did us. As for whether Warren’s defense (it was Allen’s defense, by the way) was worse and, more importantly, why, I’m not arguing that it wasn’t bad (at least as the season went). It’s why things changed year over year that we disagree on. You seem to think that, had we blitzed 15% more in 2021 (at levels we did on 2020), we wouldn’t have gone 0-9, losing 7 in blowouts. Obviously, I don’t think that’s close to reality.

You obviously consider my views on the 2020 season as being dismissive of it, which is presumably why you’ve come at me so aggressively. That’s fine, I guess. I absolutely think it’s valid and I know some people in and and around the program who have validated it. If you’re not sure or don’t know, no problem. It was never meant as a criticism of Coach Allen. Just the opposite, actually. I thought it was a brilliant move on his and KW’s part, and it worked like a charm.

Beyond that, I’m here to talk football. I’ll let you decide why you’re here for yourself. There are some people who post here who don’t seem to have that as their overriding reason to be here. Hope that’s not the case for you.

You miss that coach Allen had confidence in coach Wommack and IU's defense did more and different things than they previously had. It was a stunting defense from all levels and something coach Allen hasn't done much in the past. It is a shame Wommack didn't stay one more year to see if his approach worked as well in 2021.

 

[Champs1976]

Warren was hired with the agreement / understanding that the D wasn’t changing, and it didn’t. We weren’t able to turn teams over like we did the year before, for reasons we have discussed here, but it was the same D. Unfortunately, a key guy who helped a lot in 2020 was no longer there, too (Jerome Johnson). Big loss.

Jamar was an even bigger loss in my opinion. He disguised blitz's very effectively, dropped into coverage well and created havoc for opposing qbs all season, not to mention his own picks. There is a film of the OSU game analizing Justin fields and it shows just how disruptive Jamar was to what Fields thought he was seeing.

 

[DANC]

There was no where near the same when it came to the amount of blitzes. They also changed the coverage because they weren't doing a zone and keep your eyes glued to the QB that was constantly being mentioned in 2020.

Maybe the playbook and formations were the same (not sure) but it was definitely being used differently in regards to what was being called and what they had the coverage doing.

 

[DANC]

Warren was hired with the agreement / understanding that the D wasn’t changing, and it didn’t. We weren’t able to turn teams over like we did the year before, for reasons we have discussed here, but it was the same D. Unfortunately, a key guy who helped a lot in 2020 was no longer there, too (Jerome Johnson). Big loss.

Great point about losing Jerome Johnson. He was a rock and occupied multiple OLs.

 

[DANC]

There was no where near the same when it came to the amount of blitzes. They also changed the coverage because they weren't doing a zone and keep your eyes glued to the QB that was constantly being mentioned in 2020.

Maybe the playbook and formations were the same (not sure) but it was definitely being used differently in regards to what was being called and what they had the coverage doing.

You should stick to football - at least you can post coherently here. You're wrong, but at least coherent.

 

[iueyedoc99]

My interpretation is Warren owning a military pedigree and no doubt also a very strong interview earned too much of Coach Allen's respect, certainly over impressed, which weakened or neutralized his on field evaluation criticism early on. It happens frequently with candidates whose strongest attribute is a strong interview. Much like DeBord being hired to be owner and HC of the offense. Being burned twice I seriously doubt it happens to him again. I also think it's more growth in HCing.

It seems like every game the announcers were raving about how Warren is an “impressive individual” who “commands a room” and will “no doubt be a head coach some day!” And I’m thinking “are you watching the actual game, because what Im seeing isn’t screaming head coach material right here!”

 

[IUCX9]

Learning to be a Head Coach takes time too.

Allen was likely trying to walk lines between “interfering” and “meddling” and trying to be a good boss, etc. Too much emphasis on LEO-ing young men and too little on field results?

“Nice guys finish last.” Leo Durocher.

Head Coach in training makes some sense.

All his offseason comments led us to believe things were going great. When in reality, Sheridan and Warren were in over their heads and CTA didn't/couldn't/wouldn't manage them.

 

[TMFT]

that conventional style didn't work.

It worked fine against Cinci, PSU, & MSU.

The other two phases of the game didn't hold up their end of the bargain. And then injuries took their toll.

 

[kmathum]

Early on, when the defense was healthy, they were pretty good. I think they were like a top 30 SP+ defense in the first half of the year before injuries took their toll. AND that was with a turnover machine at offense that couldn't stay on the field or score. Not mention that probably 30 points given up early in the year were because of a pick six, special teams run back, or turnover/return that gave the other team the ball at like the IU 35.

I'll go to my grave that the 2021 IU defense was pretty good when healthy all while playing a conventional style that didn't require high risk-high reward blitzes constantly.

that conventional style didn't work.

 

[kmathum]

It worked fine against Cinci, PSU, & MSU.

The other two phases of the game didn't hold up their end of the bargain. And then injuries took their toll.

3 losses

 

[TMFT]

3 losses

3 losses that had nothing to do with what the defense was doing out there.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

You miss that coach Allen had confidence in coach Wommack and IU's defense did more and different things than they previously had. It was a stunting defense from all levels and something coach Allen hasn't done much in the past. It is a shame Wommack didn't stay one more year to see if his approach worked as well in 2021.

The departures from the 2021 schemes hurt and once the injuries mounted it was over.

 

[kmathum]

3 losses that had nothing to do with what the defense was doing out there.

warren wasn't ready for primetime. he went from DC here to position coach at carolina. same with sheridan.

 

[TMFT]

warren wasn't ready for primetime. he went from DC here to position coach at carolina. same with sheridan.

Sure. Okay. Fine.

That has nothing to do with whether the defense performed well in those three games.

 

[Jackskip23]

You miss that coach Allen had confidence in coach Wommack and IU's defense did more and different things than they previously had. It was a stunting defense from all levels and something coach Allen hasn't done much in the past. It is a shame Wommack didn't stay one more year to see if his approach worked as well in 2021.

I didn’t miss it at all, since I said Allen did something much more than he had ever done before in 2020. They blitzed heavily because they knew teams couldn’t prep for it. Since 2021 was a return to much more normal conditions, the 2020 approach didn’t work nearly as well, and then injuries and a horrid offense made it worse.

 

[kmathum]

Sure. Okay. Fine.

That has nothing to do with whether the defense performed well in those three games.

we don't have the horses to play a conventional defense. not with our schedule. we have to take chances. allen and wommack knew that.

 

[TMFT]

we don't have the horses to play a conventional defense. not with our schedule. we have to take chances. allen and wommack knew that.

Yes we do. Because they were effective at it.

2020 was the only season since Allen’s been here that they played that style. It’s not like 2021 was an aberration in any way from the rest of CTA’s seasons.

 

[CC Mac]

I think they need to change the subject line on this thread.
It hasn’t been about QB’s for a couple weeks lol

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

My interpretation is Warren owning a military pedigree and no doubt also a very strong interview earned too much of Coach Allen's respect, certainly over impressed, which weakened or neutralized his on field evaluation criticism early on. It happens frequently with candidates whose strongest attribute is a strong interview. Much like DeBord being hired to be owner and HC of the offense. Being burned twice I seriously doubt it happens to him again. I also think it's more growth in HCing.

I’d like to know who else Allen interviewed for that position? He went half-assed on that hire. If you are going to give up your hands-on with the defense, you better not go cheap and unknown and that was the Warren.hire.
And, this all gets to the heart of my argument about IU’s fit with the Big Ten. Are you going to pony up and play in the big boy sandbox? Or, are you going to continue to be on the cheap with your coordinator hires and allow or force your head coach to give up a portion of salary to buy out a dud offensive coordinator? If Allen took the pay cut, it’s honorable but no AD should allow it. You either pony up and get serious about your program or find a place not as expensive.

 

[IUCX9]

I’d like to know who else Allen interviewed for that position? He went half-assed on that hire. If you are going to give up your hands-on with the defense, you better not go cheap and unknown and that was the Warren.hire.
And, this all gets to the heart of my argument about IU’s fit with the Big Ten. Are you going to pony up and play in the big boy sandbox? Or, are you going to continue to be on the cheap with your coordinator hires and allow or force your head coach to give up a portion of salary to buy out a dud offensive coordinator? If Allen took the pay cut, it’s honorable but no AD should allow it. You either pony up and get serious about your program or find a place not as expensive.

We pay more for assistants than Purdue does.

FYI... Warren made $700k guiding the 14th best scoring defense in the B1G. He wasn't cheap at all. Wilt is making $550k, and he's not even calling the defense. Purdue's DC is making 500k, and he makes the calls.

Bell is making $700k as well. More than the $500k that Sheridan made last year. Incidentally, Brian Brohm also makes $500k.

So, we aren't going around hiring cheap. We are paying very well here at IU. We just aren't getting the return on investment we want.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

We pay more for assistants than Purdue does.

FYI... Warren made $700k guiding the 14th best scoring defense in the B1G. He wasn't cheap at all. Wilt is making $550k, and he's not even calling the defense. Purdue's DC is making 500k, and he makes the calls.

Bell is making $700k as well. More than the $500k that Sheridan made last year. Incidentally, Brian Brohm also makes $500k.

So, we aren't going around hiring cheap. We are paying very well here at IU. We just aren't getting the return on investment we want.

Purdue makes smart coaching hires. They are more savvy about finding guys that do more with their personnel. Brohm is a guy that maximizes his talent pool to fit the scheme. Allen completely lost the team last year and the fact that they threw in the towel is an indictment of his motivational skills. He set his own bar with a couple good seasons and could erase all his efforts if he tanks again this year. He’ll be a lame duck coach and that will really be used against him.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Purdue makes smart coaching hires. They are more savvy about finding guys that do more with their personnel. Brohm is a guy that maximizes his talent pool to fit the scheme. Allen completely lost the team last year and the fact that they threw in the towel is an indictment of his motivational skills. He set his own bar with a couple good seasons and could erase all his efforts if he tanks again this year. He’ll be a lame duck coach and that will really be used against him.

I know you are a huge Brohm fan. What is his record against that pay wall? 3-2 vs IU (had the 2020 game been played). Thoughts on ROI?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

So, we aren't going around hiring cheap. We are paying very well here at IU. We just aren't getting the return on investment we want.

IU and purdue have that in common.

 

[IUCX9]

I know you are a huge Brohm fan. What is his record against that pay wall? 3-2 vs IU (had the 2020 game been played). Thoughts on ROI?

IU and purdue have that in common.

Great points. Let's compare them...

Salaries
As far as salaries, Brohm himself makes more than Allen personally, but IU assistants make more than Purdue assistants, so let's call that a wash.

Even.

Record
Brohm is 28-29, 20-22 in B1G. In a very weak division.
Allen is 26-31, 15-28 in the B1G in the toughest conference in the country.

Even. Allen gets beat up in the B1G east, but Brohm constantly schedules multiple P5 programs in noncon every yead, which IU should not due to an already difficult annual schedule.

Heads up match-up.

Brohm 3 wins vs Allen 1 win. You can give Allen 1 more win for PU forfeit in 2020 as well.

But I still have to give this to Brohm.

Bowl Games.

Brohm has 3 mediocre bowl appearances with 2 wins. One spectacularly embarrassing loss to Auburn. Two wins over middling Arizona and OK Tennessee.

Allen has 2 Florida bowls and 0 wins. Ole Miss Gator Bowl loss to Ole Miss. One January bowl vs TN, lost in heartbreaking fashion after a few headscratching calls from Allen.

Even. Allen gets points for higher Tier January bowls in Florida but Brohm has more low tier bowls and 2 low tier wins.

Wins over Ranked Teams...

Brohm has beaten OSU, MSU, Iowa (2x).
Allen has beaten Michigan and PSU.

Even. But not enough for either side.

So.... Yeah, both programs are getting mediocre ROI from their coaching staffs.

Who will post a better ROI in 2022?

 

[Jackskip23]

Great points. Let's compare them...

Salaries
As far as salaries, Brohm himself makes more than Allen personally, but IU assistants make more than Purdue assistants, so let's call that a wash.

Even.

Record
Brohm is 28-29, 20-22 in B1G. In a very weak division.
Allen is 26-31, 15-28 in the B1G in the toughest conference in the country.

Even. Allen gets beat up in the B1G east, but Brohm constantly schedules multiple P5 programs in noncon every yead, which IU should not due to an already difficult annual schedule.

Heads up match-up.

Brohm 3 wins vs Allen 1 win. You can give Allen 1 more win for PU forfeit in 2020 as well.

But I still have to give this to Brohm.

Bowl Games.

Brohm has 3 mediocre bowl appearances with 2 wins. One spectacularly embarrassing loss to Auburn. Two wins over middling Arizona and OK Tennessee.

Allen has 2 Florida bowls and 0 wins. Ole Miss Gator Bowl loss to Ole Miss. One January bowl vs TN, lost in heartbreaking fashion after a few headscratching calls from Allen.

Even. Allen gets points for higher Tier January bowls in Florida but Brohm has more low tier bowls and 2 low tier wins.

Wins over Ranked Teams...

Brohm has beaten OSU, MSU, Iowa (2x).
Allen has beaten Michigan and PSU.

Even. But not enough for either side.

So.... Yeah, both programs are getting mediocre ROI from their coaching staffs.

Who will post a better ROI in 2022?

Any ROI discussion probably should also include ticket sales, overall attendance, and football related revenues.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Great points. Let's compare them...

Salaries
As far as salaries, Brohm himself makes more than Allen personally, but IU assistants make more than Purdue assistants, so let's call that a wash.

Even.

Record
Brohm is 28-29, 20-22 in B1G. In a very weak division.
Allen is 26-31, 15-28 in the B1G in the toughest conference in the country.

Even. Allen gets beat up in the B1G east, but Brohm constantly schedules multiple P5 programs in noncon every yead, which IU should not due to an already difficult annual schedule.

Heads up match-up.

Brohm 3 wins vs Allen 1 win. You can give Allen 1 more win for PU forfeit in 2020 as well.

But I still have to give this to Brohm.

Bowl Games.

Brohm has 3 mediocre bowl appearances with 2 wins. One spectacularly embarrassing loss to Auburn. Two wins over middling Arizona and OK Tennessee.

Allen has 2 Florida bowls and 0 wins. Ole Miss Gator Bowl loss to Ole Miss. One January bowl vs TN, lost in heartbreaking fashion after a few headscratching calls from Allen.

Even. Allen gets points for higher Tier January bowls in Florida but Brohm has more low tier bowls and 2 low tier wins.

Wins over Ranked Teams...

Brohm has beaten OSU, MSU, Iowa (2x).
Allen has beaten Michigan and PSU.

Even. But not enough for either side.

So.... Yeah, both programs are getting mediocre ROI from their coaching staffs.

Who will post a better ROI in 2022?

And don't forget both schools had big jumps in tickets sold. Even again and both help ROI.

Edit, oops sorry Ord, should have known to read down and see your response to my post. Ding.