Thoughts and prayers to the victims of yet another school massacre.
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It’s really to early to comment.Thoughts and prayers to the victims of yet another school massacre.
There is widespread consensus, of course, on myriad things we might do. But we must not try to prevent the next massacre until we have fully forgotten the last. To do otherwise would be divisive.It’s really to early to comment.
Perhaps, but I'll do it anyway.It’s really to early to comment.
School shootings are particularly horrific...it is a hardwired primate thing to be particularly disturbed by the murder of children. That statistics by themselves might not be enough to move us to action is somewhat understandable. That the combination of statistics with horrific mass murder events of children is not enough is what really deserves our thoughts and prayers. We should think and pray about what stops us from responding to this situation with sensible policies we almost all already agree upon.Perhaps, but I'll do it anyway.
17 people were killed in a shooting today. On average, each day in this country, 30 people are victims of homicide by gun. Each and every day, 3 of them will be killed by a police officer. Another 60 each day will use a gun to take their own lives. Another 90 will be injured by a gun.
Each day.
School shootings are sad, but they are a tiny drop in the bucket when it comes to gun deaths in America.
What sensible policies we almost all already agree upon? I for one doubt there is very much at all we can do to stop school shootings (or any spree killings) from a policy standpoint.School shootings are particularly horrific...it is a hardwired primate thing to be particularly disturbed by the murder of children. That statistics by themselves might not be enough to move us to action is somewhat understandable. That the combination of statistics with horrific mass murder events of children is not enough is what really deserves our thoughts and prayers. We should think and pray about what stops us from responding to this situation with sensible policies we almost all already agree upon.
see my post above with the link...the idea that we couldn't stop school shootings seems absurd...that is, unless you believe that Americans are somehow different people than people elsewhere in the world or different than we were 40 years ago. I do agree that there is not very much we can do to stop spree killings in our current political environment in which our politics on gun issues has been effectively captured by the NRA.What sensible policies we almost all already agree upon? I for one doubt there is very much at all we can do to stop school shootings (or any spree killings) from a policy standpoint.
I support common sense gun control, including the three proposals polled by Gallup. I fail to see how they would prevent most - or any - school shootings.see my post above with the link...the idea that we couldn't stop school shootings seems absurd...that is, unless you believe that Americans are somehow different people than people elsewhere in the world or different than we were 40 years ago. I do agree that there is not very much we can do to stop spree killings in our current political environment in which our politics on gun issues has been effectively captured by the NRA.
I think the common sense gun control proposals would impact the statistics you cite. More aggressive gun control policies as well as other policies (e.g., mental health policies) may be needed to really halt school shootings. But other countries don't have these widespread school shootings like we do. So there must be policies we can pursue that will reduce the frequency. Fatalism because of our hyper-polarized political environment is warranted. Fatalism about policy solutions is not.I support common sense gun control, including the three proposals polled by Gallup. I fail to see how they would prevent most - or any - school shootings.
I agree entirely...it is just plain nuts.It barely even registers nowadays. Desensitising to it is the only coping mechanism.
For someone who lives abroad, fresh eyes/ears, and doesn't have to think about it on a regular basis (no kids, only cats) its just plan nuts. Nowhere else in the world does this happen.
You can send a man to the moon and yet...
Perhaps. I hope we can find a solution, but even your explanation strengthens my original point, which is that using school shootings to promote gun control policies is dumb.I think the common sense gun control proposals would impact the statistics you cite. More aggressive gun control policies as well as other policies (e.g., mental health policies) may be needed to really halt school shootings. But other countries don't have these widespread school shootings like we do. So there must be policies we can pursue that will reduce the frequency. Fatalism because of our hyper-polarized political environment is warranted. Fatalism about policy solutions is not.
What are these policies that you think are sensible and agreed upon?School shootings are particularly horrific...it is a hardwired primate thing to be particularly disturbed by the murder of children. That statistics by themselves might not be enough to move us to action is somewhat understandable. That the combination of statistics with horrific mass murder events of children is not enough is what really deserves our thoughts and prayers. We should think and pray about what stops us from responding to this situation with sensible policies we almost all already agree upon.
Sorry, I just read your link and these are the proposals we agree upon:What are these policies that you think are sensible and agreed upon?
To combine two threads together, background checks will be about as effective at stopping school shootings as hard 20-week cutoffs are at stopping abortions.Sorry, I just read your link and these are the proposals we agree upon:
- mandatory background checks
- waiting periods and gun registration, or checks and waiting periods, but not registration
I have no problem with mandatory background checks and waiting periods. Not much with registration either. However, those wouldn't stop these shootings.
But I'm not one that wants to stop abortions - just late-term abortions. Of course, I'd be happy to see all abortions reduced, just as I'd like to see shootings reduced.To combine two threads together, background checks will be about as effective at stopping school shootings as hard 20-week cutoffs are at stopping abortions.
Was that your point? I thought your point was that the number of fatalities from school shootings is small in comparison to the number of gun injuries more broadly. Being fatalistic about preventing school shootings is absurd.Perhaps. I hope we can find a solution, but even your explanation strengthens my original point, which is that using school shootings to promote gun control policies is dumb.
I think you missed the point.But I'm not one that wants to stop abortions - just late-term abortions. Of course, I'd be happy to see all abortions reduced, just as I'd like to see shootings reduced.
But I'm not one that wants to stop abortions - just late-term abortions. Of course, I'd be happy to see all abortions reduced, just as I'd like to see shootings reduced.
I got your point. Maybe you missed mine.I think you missed the point.
Making abortion illegal would be more effective than a 20-week cutoff. Strictly enforcing laws against abortion would make it even more rare. Analogously, getting rid of easy availability of firearms will reduce shootings. Making firearms really hard to get will have more dramatic effects. Got a constitutional problem with those proposals?..No problem...get different judges and the problems disappear. Policy matters a lot.To combine two threads together, background checks will be about as effective at stopping school shootings as hard 20-week cutoffs are at stopping abortions.
You propose getting judges that will ignore the constitution?Making abortion illegal would be more effective than a 20-week cutoff. Strictly enforcing laws against abortion would make it even more rare. Analogously, getting rid of easy availability of firearms will reduce shootings. Making firearms really hard to get will have more dramatic effects. Got a constitutional problem with those proposals?..No problem...get different judges and the problems disappear. Policy matters a lot.
We don’t need new policies. We need a restating or repeal of the 2nd Amendment.What are these policies that you think are sensible and agreed upon?
No, judges never ignore the constitution...you want to ban abortion you get judges who think the constitution allows banning abortion...you want to ban firearms you get judges who think the constitution allows banning firearms. The set of policies that have at one time or another passed constitutional muster is quite vast and contradictory.You propose getting judges that will ignore the constitution?
I doubt it. His corner to fight is more guns, gasoline on the campfire from his idiotic point of view, but I am sure he is praying for lost lifeI hope Wayne LaPierre has appropriately bad dreams tonight..
What sensible policies we almost all already agree upon? I for one doubt there is very much at all we can do to stop school shootings (or any spree killings) from a policy standpoint.
I wouldn’t support that.We don’t need new policies. We need a restating or repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
We need a restating or repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
Is that all? I didn't realize it was so simple.We don’t need new policies. We need a restating or repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
If I understand you correctly, I disagree.I support common sense gun control, including the three proposals polled by Gallup. I fail to see how they would prevent most - or any - school shootings.
Even with repeal of the 2nd Amendment, I suspect most gun rights would still be protected by due process jurisprudence, but arguably dealt with on a more reasonable analysis.I wouldn’t support that.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how anything you said constitutes "disagreeing" with me.If I understand you correctly, I disagree.
We should legislate. We should remove any mfr'r immunity. We should consider holding gun owners (incl. parents) accountable for what happens with their weapons. We could expand background screens. We could ban some weapons. We could require that all weapons be registered and that all weapon transfers be documented and require background screens.
Legislative efforts likely wouldn't be enough. Other things would be helpful. For example, pushing the media to stop the massacre porn where they reveal scant info slowly (and often incorrectly) as stories develop over days instead of presenting the hard news. We can all value gun rights, but if your expression of that right is to proudly buy 65 guns, including assault rifles, you might be a loon and part of the problem. We should consider treating those folks accordingly instead of ceding ground to them as proud Americans. We could ask our leaders to stop contributing to the madness by talking just like those loons and otherwise doing nothing but pointing out how no single legislative activity would solve the problem and thus doing absolutely nothing (other than likely and actually loosening the gun laws).
There's more, but frankly I'm surprised there's so little outcry.
Like I said, I'm not sure I followed you. But in the wake of every tragedy, there are endless explanations that this or that aspect of one previously suggested gun control initiative wouldn't have prevented the bad activity. In sum, there's a huge sweeping effort to explain that legislative efforts wouldn't be successful, would interfere with our God-given rights and shouldn't be attempted at all. Thus, inertia. I think we need to start moving forward and rejecting the naysayers outright. The naysayers, imo, are a significant part of the problem even if they studiously assemble reasonable-sounding disagreements. I don't want to accept conversations about the limits of legislation.I'm sorry, but I don't see how anything you said constitutes "disagreeing" with me.
As I said above, I'm not arguing against the specific policies in question. I'm arguing against the idea they would prevent school shootings. Or really any shootings. You really want to make a dent in gun violence using gun control, you need to do what Ranger said and repeal the 2A.Like I said, I'm not sure I followed you. But in the wake of every tragedy, there are endless explanations that this or that aspect of one previously suggested gun control initiative wouldn't have prevented the bad activity. In sum, there's a huge sweeping effort to explain that legislative efforts wouldn't be successful, would interfere with our God-given rights and shouldn't be attempted at all. Thus, inertia. I think we need to start moving forward and rejecting the naysayers outright. The naysayers, imo, are a significant part of the problem even if they studiously assemble reasonable-sounding disagreements. I don't want to accept conversations about the limits of legislation.
I don't think repeal of the 2A would change much of anything. I think a change in policy is what is needed if it has support. I think a change in policy is a growing consensus that what we've experienced is unacceptable and that the school shootings are the best example of that insanity. If politicians faced a backlash and had to distance themselves from "gun nuts" (they aggressively advocate for them today), maybe the tone in the country would change. I think it can start with policy.As I said above, I'm not arguing against the specific policies in question. I'm arguing against the idea they would prevent school shootings. Or really any shootings. You really want to make a dent in gun violence using gun control, you need to do what Ranger said and repeal the 2A.