Thinking about the top candiates

[Rakkasan29]

The Big Ten back then nothing like it is the last 6 to 8 years.

Yeah, I mean in 2000 you had Purdue, Wisconsin, and Mich St. in the Regional Finals of the Tournament...Wisconsin and Mich St. were in the Final Four...and Mich St. won the Title...

In 2001, Mich St. and Illinois made the Regional Final...Mich St. made another Final Four...

In 2002...well we all know what happened...

In 2003, Mich St. made a Regional Final...obviously a down year.

In 2004, only Illinois made it to the Sweet Sixteen...another down year...

In 2005, Illinois and Mich St. both made the Final Four. Illinois was the National Runner-up.

And a National Runner-up for Ohio St. in 2007


...yeah, the Big Ten back then was nothing like it's been the last 6 to 8 years.

What an asinine comment to make.

 

[bsmitty08]

Yeah, I mean in 2000 you had Purdue, Wisconsin, and Mich St. in the Regional Finals of the Tournament...Wisconsin and Mich St. were in the Final Four...and Mich St. won the Title...

In 2001, Mich St. and Illinois made the Regional Final...Mich St. made another Final Four...

In 2002...well we all know what happened...

In 2003, Mich St. made a Regional Final...obviously a down year.

In 2004, only Illinois made it to the Sweet Sixteen...another down year...

In 2005, Illinois and Mich St. both made the Final Four. Illinois was the National Runner-up.

And a National Runner-up for Ohio St. in 2007


...yeah, the Big Ten back then was nothing like it's been the last 6 to 8 years.

What an asinine comment to make.

And you played everyone twice then. Now we don't have to play 3 of the best teams in conference once.

 

[Iudanapoint]

Nobody is accepting mediocrity since fans on the message board has no leverage with the people who makes the decisions. Some just back the program and the basketball team through the good and bad which is what fans should do. If I thought for a second Glass cared about what I thought I would have sent him e-mails every day with my displeasure with the team last year.

Everyone supports the program, Scott. Just as Glass might not care what internet posters say, nor is the team impacted by the discussion on this forum. You're trying to have it both ways in an effort to wedge this in your ever meandering favor, and it's easily dismissed.

 

[Salient]

Probably around the top 7 or 8 programs of all time but reading posters comments their expectations seemed to be of a top program. I agree our expectations should be of a top 7 or 8 top program but not where a Duke or UK is and to me a lot on here expect to be like them.

I can start a thread about this but it does not mean I think Glass will read this or care what I have to say.

Who cares what they were ranked in week 1 because right now they were ranked #4 in the country. It seems to me some people can't get past what a program's history is when trying to be objective about a program. I still see people say how can we lose to UW because back in the 80's we beat them 32 straight games. What happened in the past has no bearing what we see today.

Scott, your comments strike me as contradictory. Can we only hope to aspire for what [you say] we've achieved in the past? Or does the "past has no bearing on what we see today" like Wisconsin?

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Geno is used to having a ridiculous talent level to compete with. He would have to recruit like Calipari to get the equivalent of the talent he's used to having. The talent pool just isn't as deep in girls bball and the same 5-6 schools get all the major talent every single year. Geno has even said this himself in interviews.

I don't think Gino would give up the current post-game locker room speeches.....

 

[TheShadow1087]

Brad Underwood of Stephen F Austin.

This is a guy that's going to be a hot commodity in a lot of searches this spring, especially if the Kansas State job opens up. A good recruiter who runs a system and sticks to the the fundamentals and discipline that it takes to win big.

 

[hondo314]

The world changed. You can win big at many places now without the idiocy that alumni bring to the table. The entitlement that alumni bring. You see, the thing is for that chance you speak of, if you don't hit pay dirt you are gone. Possibly even shortening your career. Or, you can make millions, be at a school where you can still do great, even win it all and not have to worry about the crazies. In the long run, healthier lifestyle and career.

How many schools in the last 15 years that are not traditional powers have made the Final Four? MANY

Marquette
Villanova
George Mason
Butler
VCU
Wichita State
West Virginia

Many others to the Elite 8 and on the cusp.

Gonzaga
Xavier
Davidson
Dayton
Providence

The world isn't what it used to be, and coaches make great money at smaller schools without dealing with lunatics and their entitled expectations.

8 ffs off that list out of 60 trips. lol. or did i miss another repeat besides butler? ya, most coaches will take their chances at a pwr conf school. hey, crean did that.

 

[IUINSB]

We were a power Scott.....not sure hwy you argue against it everytime someone brings up the college basketball powers.

WERE

And some of us would like to be apower once again. Doubt it will happen with CTC as coach.

 

[ZildjianZLine]

WHen looking at coaches you cant base it completely off what their record is currently. A coach say at Iowa...would be able to recruit better at a place like IU.

I remember that exact same sentiment said about Crean upon his arrival from Marquette. It doesn't feel like it's worked out that way, however.

 

[bsmitty08]

I remember that exact same sentiment said about Crean upon his arrival from Marquette. It doesn't feel like it's worked out that way, however.

True

 

[TeeJay88]

Bobby Hurley, Bo Ryan (especially if Gard isn't hired as Wisky coach), Cuonzo Martin, Larry Krystowiak

 

[IndianaHoops]

Bobby Hurley, Bo Ryan (especially if Gard isn't hired as Wisky coach), Cuonzo Martin.

Holy lord no....lol

 

[bsmitty08]

Bobby Hurley, Bo Ryan (especially if Gard isn't hired as Wisky coach), Cuonzo Martin, Larry Krystowiak

I would add Jacobsen to that list.

 

[TeeJay88]

I would add Jacobsen to that list.

I don't know much about him but would defer to you on it.

 

[bsmitty08]

I don't know much about him but would defer to you on it.

Pretty solid job at northern Iowa.

 

[TeeJay88]

Pretty solid job at northern Iowa.

Thanks for the tip. Do you think McDermott is a viable candidate? He's done well at Creighton also. I think we need someone who has been at major level. I really think Krystowiak could be the guy. Ryan could be interesting if Gard isn't retained. He would check all the boxes IU fans love and an heir apparent would be in place. He wouldn't have to deal with Alvarez either which, I think, would appeal to him.

 

[Paterfamilias]

In the 15 NCAA Tournaments from 1976-1990 here's a list of mid-majors who made the Elite 8

VMI, Idaho St., Charlotte, Fullerton St., Penn, Indiana St., Wichita St, St. Joes, BYU, UAB, Dayton, Navy, Temple, Loyola Marymount

The list would be much longer if I added schools like Rutgers, Depaul, UNLV, Marquette, Villanova, Clemson, Providence... Purdue (lol).

Anyway, I'm not convinced that things are all that different today than they were back in the day.

 

[becauseIknow]

Yeah, I mean in 2000 you had Purdue, Wisconsin, and Mich St. in the Regional Finals of the Tournament...Wisconsin and Mich St. were in the Final Four...and Mich St. won the Title...

In 2001, Mich St. and Illinois made the Regional Final...Mich St. made another Final Four...

In 2002...well we all know what happened...

In 2003, Mich St. made a Regional Final...obviously a down year.

In 2004, only Illinois made it to the Sweet Sixteen...another down year...

In 2005, Illinois and Mich St. both made the Final Four. Illinois was the National Runner-up.

And a National Runner-up for Ohio St. in 2007


...yeah, the Big Ten back then was nothing like it's been the last 6 to 8 years.

What an asinine comment to make.

An asinine comment? I forgot, a conference is judged by how one team does. That is why the Horizon league was the 2nd best conference in the country back to back years because of Butler. Right?

I did the work a few weeks ago, and will post it again.

Davis \ Sampson \ Dakich Era Big Ten

2000-01 Big Ten 2nd rated conference
2001-02 Big Ten 4th
2002-03 Big Ten 5th
2003-04 Big Ten 5th So bad, only three Big Ten teams invited to the NCAA Tournament
2004-05 Big Ten 5th
2005-06 Big Ten 3rd
2006-07 Big Ten 4th
2007-08 Big Ten 6th

NOT ONE TIME was it the top conference, and half the time was 5th or worse in the country.

Crean Era Big Ten

2008-09 Big Ten 1st
2009-10 Big Ten 4th
2010-11 Big Ten 1st
2011-12 Big Ten 1st
2012-13 Big Ten 1st
2013-14 Big Ten 1st
2014-15 Big Ten 4th
2015-16 Big Ten currently 4th

You are welcome

 

[becauseIknow]

And you played everyone twice then. Now we don't have to play 3 of the best teams in conference once.

The best team in the conference this year is Iowa, whom we play twice. It works both ways in that some teams get to play some lousy teams twice, some have to play the better teams twice. We don't get to play Rutgers twice, for example.

 

[becauseIknow]

Which ones?

In my opinion, this is where you leave off critical information either on purpose or through some other reason. Forgetfulness?

Here is what you wrote and my responses.

So making the NCAA and advancing is easier at Xavier than Indiana?
This is not what I said, so I appreciate the ? at the end. Do I think it is easier overall to get in for Xavier than a Big Ten team? Yes. Do I think it is easier to advance? Over the last 15 years it sure has been, but the randomness of the NCAA has something to do with that, too. Kansas, Duke, Syracuse, Kentucky, UCLA have all missed the NCAA tournament or gone out in the first two rounds multiple times in the last 15 years. There are no guarantees with the NCAA tournament.

Did you know Mike Davis has a better resume than Crean at IU even if you don't count the first 2 years. And Davis was fired.
Davis quit (he was not fired) because his trajectory went down almost each year and only accomplished something with someone else's recruits \ players. If Crean had come to IU with what Davis did in terms of players waiting for him, he would have a better resume. Davis quit, he wasn't fired. Davis went 21 wins, 25 wins, 21 wins, 14 wins, 15 wins. He had stud players from day one, no NCAA probation or threatened probation. With his players, he couldn't get it done. Quite different than with the current coach who took major lumps the first three years, but with his players won a conference title, made the NCAAs three of the last four years without Bobby's kids. You forgot this.

Did you know that last year was the worst NCAA seed in Indiana basketball history?
Better than not making the tournament at all? Now you're complaining when we do get in the seeding isn't to your liking.

Did you know Crean has finished 4th or better in conference one time in 8 years? Worst run by any Indiana coach.
How many other coaches at IU had to go through what Crean did in his first three years? None. You forgot this part. Secondly, as I pointed out in the previous post, the Big Ten over the last 8 years has been the top conference in the land more often than not. This hasn't always been the case. Third, there are now 14 teams in the Big Ten, not 10. Finishing in the top 4 used to mean finishing in the top 40%. Now finishing in the top 4 means the top 28.5%. Do the math when you make the conversions, your statement is wrong, just as your statement that Davis was fired was wrong.

Did you know Sampson was 44-15 at IU after taking over for Davis?
Did you know Sampson was banned from the NCAA for five years due to cause and was fired by Indiana for cheating? He could have gone 500-0 and I would not care. He's a cheater, he lied to the NCAA, lied to IU. He helped put IU in the mess we were in. He also coached in a Big Ten that was so bad it was rated the 6th best conference in the country. The worst the Big Ten has ever been under the current coach is 4th, and that is rare as it is usually 1st.

Did you know Crean has never beat PU without Zeller?
Did Crean recruit Cody Zeller? Was Crean the coach when Zeller played for IU?

I could go on, but you get the point.

 

[becauseIknow]

Still does not matter because those players who played for him never went that far. You said he won with RMK players meaning he coached them and that is not accurate.

I said he won with RMK's players, which is absolutely a true statement.

They signed to play for RMK and Indiana. They did not sign to play for Mike Davis and Indiana. If not for Bob Knight, they would not have been at IU for Mike Davis to ride their coattails. This could not be proven further truthful that when Bob's players departed, Davis was dead in the water.

 

[becauseIknow]

8 ffs off that list out of 60 trips. lol. or did i miss another repeat besides butler? ya, most coaches will take their chances at a pwr conf school. hey, crean did that.

Not of late. That's why Brad Stevens said no. Mack has said no. Gregg Marshall has said no multiple times. Mark Few has said no multiple times. The world has changed. Some will take the plunge, but smaller schools have stepped up and that is why so many now say no thank you when the bigger schools come.

When Coach K retires, do you think they go out and get a major name, or do they hire a former assistant? Very difficult job to follow, I bet my savings on a former assistant because too many coaches will not want to follow in the footsteps.

 

[becauseIknow]

I would add Jacobsen to that list.

Jacobsen's team this year that has already lost this year to Loyola of Illinois, Southern Illinois, Indiana State, Illinois State, Hawaii, has 11 losses and sits in 5th place in the Missouri Valley Conference?

 

[becauseIknow]

Thanks for the tip. Do you think McDermott is a viable candidate? He's done well at Creighton also. I think we need someone who has been at major level. I really think Krystowiak could be the guy. Ryan could be interesting if Gard isn't retained. He would check all the boxes IU fans love and an heir apparent would be in place. He wouldn't have to deal with Alvarez either which, I think, would appeal to him.

The same Creighton that the horrible Tom Crean coached club defeated earlier this year?

 

[becauseIknow]

In the 15 NCAA Tournaments from 1976-1990 here's a list of mid-majors who made the Elite 8

VMI, Idaho St., Charlotte, Fullerton St., Penn, Indiana St., Wichita St, St. Joes, BYU, UAB, Dayton, Navy, Temple, Loyola Marymount

The list would be much longer if I added schools like Rutgers, Depaul, UNLV, Marquette, Villanova, Clemson, Providence... Purdue (lol).

Anyway, I'm not convinced that things are all that different today than they were back in the day.

The difference today is smaller schools pay very well now, and the automatic jump to the big state schools isn't a foregone conclusion like it used to be.

 

[TeeJay88]

The same Creighton that the horrible Tom Crean coached club defeated earlier this year?

Happy Anniversary. Are you on a mission to be a contrarian to every post in this thread? The OP asked for possible candidates. I posted a few who I believe to be credible candidates that might listen to the overture. I don't think IU will be looking because I believe the team will perform well in the tourney. Sometimes, it's fun to indulge the masses.

 

[Paterfamilias]

The difference today is smaller schools pay very well now, and the automatic jump to the big state schools isn't a foregone conclusion like it used to be.

Okay, I have just skimmed the thread. I thought you were simply saying that the the little guy has a better chance of a deep run in the NCAA Tourney now days. One thing that I wonder is how successful were the guys that made the jump back in the good old days after cashing in on a deep run at a mid major. I would have to look into it, but I'm not sure that I can think of any that had success.

Also, were they even more likely to make the jump back then? Two guys off the top of my head are Smithson and Tarkanian. UNLV played in the WCC back then (I think) so they were basically the Gonzaga of those days. Smithson had some great seasons at Illinois St. then went to Wichita St. and had some really good teams. I'm not sure whatever happened with Smithson, but he had to be considered as a top candidate to move up the ladder at some point.

 

[TeeJay88]

Okay, I have just skimmed the thread. I thought you were simply saying that the the little guy has a better chance of a deep run in the NCAA Tourney now days. One thing that I wonder is how successful were the guys that made the jump back in the good old days after cashing in on a deep run at a mid major. I would have to look into it, but I'm not sure that I can think of any that had success.

Also, were they even more likely to make the jump back then? Two guys off the top of my head are Smithson and Tarkanian. UNLV played in the WCC back then (I think) so they were basically the Gonzaga of those days. Smithson had some great seasons at Illinois St. then went to Wichita St. and had some really good teams. I'm not sure whatever happened with Smithson, but he had to be considered as a top candidate to move up the ladder at some point.

Anthony Grant VCU to Alabama

 

[IndianaHoops]

In my opinion, this is where you leave off critical information either on purpose or through some other reason. Forgetfulness?

Here is what you wrote and my responses.

So making the NCAA and advancing is easier at Xavier than Indiana?
This is not what I said, so I appreciate the ? at the end. Do I think it is easier overall to get in for Xavier than a Big Ten team? Yes. Do I think it is easier to advance? Over the last 15 years it sure has been, but the randomness of the NCAA has something to do with that, too. Kansas, Duke, Syracuse, Kentucky, UCLA have all missed the NCAA tournament or gone out in the first two rounds multiple times in the last 15 years. There are no guarantees with the NCAA tournament.

Did you know Mike Davis has a better resume than Crean at IU even if you don't count the first 2 years. And Davis was fired.
Davis quit (he was not fired) because his trajectory went down almost each year and only accomplished something with someone else's recruits \ players. If Crean had come to IU with what Davis did in terms of players waiting for him, he would have a better resume. Davis quit, he wasn't fired. Davis went 21 wins, 25 wins, 21 wins, 14 wins, 15 wins. He had stud players from day one, no NCAA probation or threatened probation. With his players, he couldn't get it done. Quite different than with the current coach who took major lumps the first three years, but with his players won a conference title, made the NCAAs three of the last four years without Bobby's kids. You forgot this.

Did you know that last year was the worst NCAA seed in Indiana basketball history?
Better than not making the tournament at all? Now you're complaining when we do get in the seeding isn't to your liking.

Did you know Crean has finished 4th or better in conference one time in 8 years? Worst run by any Indiana coach.
How many other coaches at IU had to go through what Crean did in his first three years? None. You forgot this part. Secondly, as I pointed out in the previous post, the Big Ten over the last 8 years has been the top conference in the land more often than not. This hasn't always been the case. Third, there are now 14 teams in the Big Ten, not 10. Finishing in the top 4 used to mean finishing in the top 40%. Now finishing in the top 4 means the top 28.5%. Do the math when you make the conversions, your statement is wrong, just as your statement that Davis was fired was wrong.

Did you know Sampson was 44-15 at IU after taking over for Davis?
Did you know Sampson was banned from the NCAA for five years due to cause and was fired by Indiana for cheating? He could have gone 500-0 and I would not care. He's a cheater, he lied to the NCAA, lied to IU. He helped put IU in the mess we were in. He also coached in a Big Ten that was so bad it was rated the 6th best conference in the country. The worst the Big Ten has ever been under the current coach is 4th, and that is rare as it is usually 1st.

Did you know Crean has never beat PU without Zeller?
Did Crean recruit Cody Zeller? Was Crean the coach when Zeller played for IU?

I could go on, but you get the point.

So, not a single thing was wrong.

You just responded with a whole lot of excuses.

Let's take this a different direction....

Why should a incredible coach like Tom Crean be stuck at Indiana?

Let's hope he finds a place where he is truly appreciated...

 

[IndianaHoops]

The difference today is smaller schools pay very well now, and the automatic jump to the big state schools isn't a foregone conclusion like it used to be.

Crean makes:

3 times more than Mack
5 times more than Miller

Keep up the fight kid!!!!

 

[IndianaHoops]

The same Creighton that the horrible Tom Crean coached club defeated earlier this year?

I bet we can get Pat Chambers...he seems to do pretty well vs IU

 

[IUINSB]

When Coach K retires, do you think they go out and get a major name, or do they hire a former assistant? Very difficult job to follow, I bet my savings on a former assistant because too many coaches will not want to follow in the footsteps.

You're probably right regarding Duke's next coach. It was tough for those that followed Wooden, Smith, and RMK. However, I don't think CTC's shoes would be that hard to fill.

 

[becauseIknow]

So, not a single thing was wrong.

You just responded with a whole lot of excuses.

Let's take this a different direction....

Why should a incredible coach like Tom Crean be stuck at Indiana?

Let's hope he finds a place where he is truly appreciated...

Many things wrong. You said Davis was fired. He was not. How you can say not a single thing wrong is truly amazing.

I also said many of your statements were half truths, that you didn't tell the full picture. In detail, I outlined those for you. I gave you credit for the half truths, and filled in the rest that you forgot or purposely ignored.

I don't care where Tom Crean goes, my allegiance will be with IU. I'm pointing out some of your absurdities and why coaches don't just walk on coals to come to places like IU anymore, especially places like IU. If Crean leaves on his own or he is fired, I will hope that a Brad Stevens comes here (even though he isn't) and whomever it is, that they are successful. I have little doubt, however, that the first time we don't run a motion offense or we recruit a few kids out of the state of Indiana, some fans will piss and moan about it.

 

[becauseIknow]

Crean makes:

3 times more than Mack
5 times more than Miller

Keep up the fight kid!!!!

Xavier is a private school and so is Dayton. Their contracts are not disclosed as a course of public record, especially the dollars they receive outside of their salaries.

Keep up the fight.

 

[becauseIknow]

Okay, I have just skimmed the thread. I thought you were simply saying that the the little guy has a better chance of a deep run in the NCAA Tourney now days. One thing that I wonder is how successful were the guys that made the jump back in the good old days after cashing in on a deep run at a mid major. I would have to look into it, but I'm not sure that I can think of any that had success.

Also, were they even more likely to make the jump back then? Two guys off the top of my head are Smithson and Tarkanian. UNLV played in the WCC back then (I think) so they were basically the Gonzaga of those days. Smithson had some great seasons at Illinois St. then went to Wichita St. and had some really good teams. I'm not sure whatever happened with Smithson, but he had to be considered as a top candidate to move up the ladder at some point.

Tark is a special case in that the NCAA was on his back from day one and UNLV was a sanctuary city for him. They were in the Big West conference at the time.

 

[becauseIknow]

Happy Anniversary. Are you on a mission to be a contrarian to every post in this thread? The OP asked for possible candidates. I posted a few who I believe to be credible candidates that might listen to the overture. I don't think IU will be looking because I believe the team will perform well in the tourney. Sometimes, it's fun to indulge the masses.

I'm sorry TeeJay. I got a little worked up when someone says Davis was fired, and then in the next statement says he didn't say anything wrong. It's hard to deal with people that are in denial and have their own set of facts, despite the truth. Again, did not mean to take it out on you.

 

[Hashtag_HoosierHysteria]

I think Archie Miller is probably the best case scenario. I don't know if we can afford to wait for Brad Stevens, as it looks like he might have many bright years ahead of him with the Celtics. Unless he is just sick of the attitudes in the NBA...

 

[becauseIknow]

I think Archie Miller is probably the best case scenario. I don't know if we can afford to wait for Brad Stevens, as it looks like he might have many bright years ahead of him with the Celtics. Unless he is just sick of the attitudes in the NBA...

Archie is waiting for his alma mater to open up, NC State. That's one reason when coaches from smaller programs are willing to jump these days. Emotional investment. NC State is 13-12 this year.

 

[IndianaHoops]

Many things wrong. You said Davis was fired. He was not. How you can say not a single thing wrong is truly amazing.

I also said many of your statements were half truths, that you didn't tell the full picture. In detail, I outlined those for you. I gave you credit for the half truths, and filled in the rest that you forgot or purposely ignored.

I don't care where Tom Crean goes, my allegiance will be with IU. I'm pointing out some of your absurdities and why coaches don't just walk on coals to come to places like IU anymore, especially places like IU. If Crean leaves on his own or he is fired, I will hope that a Brad Stevens comes here (even though he isn't) and whomever it is, that they are successful. I have little doubt, however, that the first time we don't run a motion offense or we recruit a few kids out of the state of Indiana, some fans will piss and moan about it.

Got news for ya, Crean won't be "fired" either.

And facts are facts...."half truths"? WTF is that? The rest "I forgot"? You just added excuses.

Sure, Davis wasn't officially fired. But if you ask him, I bet it wasn't he choice when he left. And it won't be Crean's either.

Crean has had one good year out of 8 so far. Agreed? And even that was just a conference title with a sweet 16 run with 2 lottery picks.

IU hasn't ran the motion in over 15 years and I remember this fan base fully supporting Crean's first 2 years.

Stevens isn't coming here, but an upgrade is not hard to find.

 

[IndianaHoops]

Archie is waiting for his alma mater to open up, NC State. That's one reason when coaches from smaller programs are willing to jump these days. Emotional investment. NC State is 13-12 this year.

lol.....sure.