The root cause of Trump - Gary Hart

[Marvin the Martian]

I am not sure I buy into this theory, but the article below believes Gary Hart set the ground for Donald Trump. Hart ran against the old-school Democrat, Walter Mondale. Hart was loved by young, urban professionals (YUPPIES), a group long at odds with blue-collar Democrats. Bringing YUPPIES into the party changed the core values of the Democratic Party to a level that alienated the blue-collar White voters. They became disaffected and bingo, Donald Trump.

I volunteered for Hart in '84 spending a couple of weeks in Davenport Iowa then a couple more in Illinois. It was fun, and I was scheduled for more in '88 until monkey business got in the way.

Other than things like gay rights, I am not sure that 1) bringing Yuppies in changed that much 2) that all the Yuppies stayed 3) that Clinton may well have done more in bringing in young professionals than Hart.

But I do agree that in that era, the movement of urban professionals did damage the party as the home to labor Democrats as the labor Democrats tended to be far more conservative on social issues.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/04/yuppies-donald-trump-book-excerpt-00160689

 

[UncleMark]

I am not sure I buy into this theory, but the article below believes Gary Hart set the ground for Donald Trump. Hart ran against the old-school Democrat, Walter Mondale. Hart was loved by young, urban professionals (YUPPIES), a group long at odds with blue-collar Democrats. Bringing YUPPIES into the party changed the core values of the Democratic Party to a level that alienated the blue-collar White voters. They became disaffected and bingo, Donald Trump.

I volunteered for Hart in '84 spending a couple of weeks in Davenport Iowa then a couple more in Illinois. It was fun, and I was scheduled for more in '88 until monkey business got in the way.

Other than things like gay rights, I am not sure that 1) bringing Yuppies in changed that much 2) that all the Yuppies stayed 3) that Clinton may well have done more in bringing in young professionals than Hart.

But I do agree that in that era, the movement of urban professionals did damage the party as the home to labor Democrats as the labor Democrats tended to be far more conservative on social issues.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/04/yuppies-donald-trump-book-excerpt-00160689

Labor Democrats had already jumped ship by the time Hart came along. We called them Reagan Democrats.

 

[stollcpa]

Labor Democrats had already jumped ship by the time Hart came along. We called them Reagan Democrats.

Soon there will be no place in the democrat party for you, a white straight man.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Labor Democrats had already jumped ship by the time Hart came along. We called them Reagan Democrats.

I was a Reagan Democrat before I switched to Republican officially, but the majority of Labor Democrats stayed strong Democrats probably until Trump. It was very eye opening listening to people at the bar in my favorite wing joint talking about supporting Bernie OR Trump in 2016. I didn't see the overlap, but apparently they bought into the idea that both of them would be good for blue collar folks. They also believed that DC needed to be shaken up, which was the most common thing I'd hear.

 

[stollcpa]

I was a Reagan Democrat before I switched to Republican officially, but the majority of Labor Democrats stayed strong Democrats probably until Trump. It was very eye opening listening to people at the bar in my favorite wing joint talking about supporting Bernie OR Trump in 2016. I didn't see the overlap, but apparently they bought into the idea that both of them would be good for blue collar folks. They also believed that DC needed to be shaken up, which was the most common thing I'd hear.

Your last sentence was the driving factor for most in that election. Trump achieved that objective. DC is hellbent on putting him in a dungeon in chains as a warning to anyone that gets the idea to shakeup the DC swamp again.

 

[BradStevens]

They also believed that DC needed to be shaken up, which was the most common thing I'd hear.

They were right.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I was a Reagan Democrat before I switched to Republican officially, but the majority of Labor Democrats stayed strong Democrats probably until Trump. It was very eye opening listening to people at the bar in my favorite wing joint talking about supporting Bernie OR Trump in 2016. I didn't see the overlap, but apparently they bought into the idea that both of them would be good for blue collar folks. They also believed that DC needed to be shaken up, which was the most common thing I'd hear.

The far-right and the far-left are virtually identical. If Winners were still here, his posts were virtually identical to the MAGA posters.

 

[BradStevens]

The far-right and the far-left are virtually identical. If Winners were still here, his posts were virtually identical to the MAGA posters.

I think that’s partially a result of the two parties seeming to work only for the upper classes. Freakin’ Oligarchy.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The far-right and the far-left are virtually identical. If Winners were still here, his posts were virtually identical to the MAGA posters.

There's a lot of overlap. The tendency to believe obviously ridiculous conspiracy theories is one of them. Truthers were mostly moonbats, same with anti-vaxxers. Now the most vocal anti-vaxxers are wingnuts though I suspect the moonbat anti-vaxxers are still there and just laying low to let the wingnuts take the ridicule. I can't keep up with all conspiratorial thinking these days.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I think that’s partially a result of the two parties seeming to work only for the upper classes. Freakin’ Oligarchy.

People say that. But bring up raising taxes on the wealthy and see who complains the most. It will be people who most vociferously complain the government works for the upper classes.

 

[BradStevens]

People say that. But bring up raising taxes on the wealthy and see who complains the most. It will be people who most vociferously complain the government works for the upper classes.

You’re assuming that’s what working class people want most: redistribution of wealth.

I don’t think that’s true. I think a lot of the working class want to feel like they matter, which means they have a decent job and respect (and a tribal pride in their locality and country provides a sense of mattering, too, to many).

Not too different than anyone else, really.

 

[mrhighlife]

Your last sentence was the driving factor for most in that election. Trump achieved that objective. DC is hellbent on putting him in a dungeon in chains as a warning to anyone that gets the idea to shakeup the DC swamp again.

Trump achieved replacing the existing grifting swamp creatures with his own grifting swamp creatures. Id rather roll with the devil I know until someone who legitimately gives a shit comes along.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You’re assuming that’s what working class people want most: redistribution of wealth.

I don’t think that’s true. I think a lot of the working class want to feel like they matter, which means they have a decent job and respect (and a tribal pride in their locality and country provides a sense of mattering, too, to many).

Not too different than anyone else, really.

I don't disagree, but when the top 1% own more wealth than the MIDDLE 60%, doesn't it enable them an outsized influence in deciding policy? If we gave every dollar in America to me, don't you think I would suddenly have massive influence in what happens in America?

Wealthy can hire lawyers to get the out of legal jeopardy, see Simpson, OJ. They can give money to politicians at all levels for their pet legislation. They can commission studies and reports designed to influence expert opinion. They can directly advertise to win public opinion. Maybe if they had less extreme wealth, their ability to do all that will certainly be reduced.

Look how much dark money roars into PACs.

There is no way the statements "We want the elites to have less power" and "We want the elites to have more money" are congruent.

 

[BradStevens]

I don't disagree, but when the top 1% own more wealth than the MIDDLE 60%, doesn't it enable them an outsized influence in deciding policy? If we gave every dollar in America to me, don't you think I would suddenly have massive influence in what happens in America?

Wealthy can hire lawyers to get the out of legal jeopardy, see Simpson, OJ. They can give money to politicians at all levels for their pet legislation. They can commission studies and reports designed to influence expert opinion. They can directly advertise to win public opinion. Maybe if they had less extreme wealth, their ability to do all that will certainly be reduced.

Look how much dark money roars into PACs.

There is no way the statements "We want the elites to have less power" and "We want the elites to have more money" are congruent.

A lot to dissect here. A lot of truth for sure. In 2016, the poster child for selling access to elites was who? Sanders and Trump called it out. Part of my point.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

A lot to dissect here. A lot of truth for sure. In 2016, the poster child for selling access to elites was who? Sanders and Trump called it out. Part of my point.

Trump had an unusual way of showing his disdain, for million you could have had lunch with his cabinet appointees (or Pence, or others).

Trump wages war on the elite by selling access for $1 million | Daphne Caruana Galizia

 

[BradStevens]

Trump had an unusual way of showing his disdain, for million you could have had lunch with his cabinet appointees (or Pence, or others).

Trump wages war on the elite by selling access for $1 million | Daphne Caruana Galizia

Yep. Trump talked about it, though. And talked about problems a certain segment of society thinks important.

I’m not justifying Trump’s appeal. Merely explaining it and why it tracks with support for Bernie.

 

[Cortez88]

There’s a really good Plain English podcast called What Americans Bold New Economic Experiment is Missing. The guest has coined the phrase “neopopulism”. It’s a recognition that the far left and far right have coalesced on the belief that the center left and center right have left the working class behind. While I didn’t agree with everything said, much of it resonated and it was thought provoking.

One thing I do think he is dead on about is the elite liberal lefts dismissiveness of the lower/middle class concerns. Whether it’s China, immigration, or economic issues, he argues that simply waiving them off is a problem. I agree.

 

[BradStevens]

There’s a really good Plain English podcast called What Americans Bold New Economic Experiment is Missing. The guest has coined the phrase “neopopulism”. It’s a recognition that the far left and far right have coalesced on the belief that the center left and center right have left the working class behind. While I didn’t agree with everything said, much of it resonated and it was thought provoking.

One thing I do think he is dead on about is the elite liberal lefts dismissiveness of the lower/middle class concerns. Whether it’s China, immigration, or economic issues, he argues that simply waiving them off is a problem. I agree.

It is. It’s all well and good to talk about the increase in total GDP and wealth in America, but if you’re the dude who lost his job to an overseas firm and you’re being told “don’t worry, just move to a different place, retrain, and start a whole new life,” I think it’s pretty easy to see why that wouldn’t be very palatable.

Add in that many of these people are the kind that value their hometown and stableness and it gets even more clear what’s going on.

 

[Cortez88]

It is. It’s all well and good to talk about the increase in total GDP and wealth in America, but if you’re the dude who lost his job to an overseas firm and you’re being told “don’t worry, just move to a different place, retrain, and start a whole new life,” I think it’s pretty easy to see why that wouldn’t be very palatable.

Add in that many of these people are the kind that value their hometown and stableness and it gets even more clear what’s going on.

What I think about is how very rich the rich people are now. We don’t talk about millionaires anymore. It’s billionaires. Hell, I find myself thinking, “oh he’s only a single digit billionaire”. That’s nuts.

When you compare how much wealthier the richest people are to the very, very incremental gains in wage growth, the disillusionment is entirely understandable.

 

[IUSUMMERS]

There's a lot of overlap. The tendency to believe obviously ridiculous conspiracy theories is one of them. Truthers were mostly moonbats, same with anti-vaxxers. Now the most vocal anti-vaxxers are wingnuts though I suspect the moonbat anti-vaxxers are still there and just laying low to let the wingnuts take the ridicule. I can't keep up with all conspiratorial thinking these days.

It’s hilarious clowns like you always bring up conspiracy theories as the tag to try to discredit people yet so many of your so called conspiracy theories just keep proving to be true in the end.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

It’s hilarious clowns like you always bring up conspiracy theories as the tag to try to discredit people yet so many of your so called conspiracy theories just keep proving to be true in the end.

Clowns believe obviously false conspiracy theories. Name a conspiracy theory that you believe to have been proven true? Controlled demolition charges brought down the WTC towers? Americans never landed on the moon? Trump lost the 2020 election due to massive voter fraud? You're very defensive so you must believe in some obviously false conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists always claim their theories have been proved true when no such proof exists.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Plain and simple: Trump is the leader of the Republican Party because the Republican politicians before him refused to represent the will of their voters unlike Democrat politicians.

Democrats do what the voters want. Republicans are cowards who refuse to fight and almost never do what their constituents want.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Your last sentence was the driving factor for most in that election. Trump achieved that objective. DC is hellbent on putting him in a dungeon in chains as a warning to anyone that gets the idea to shakeup the DC swamp again.

Are you gaslighting or really believe that crap?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Democrats do what the voters want. Republicans are cowards who refuse to fight and almost never do what their constituents want.

If that first part were true we would have single-payer healthcare.

 

[BradStevens]

What I think about is how very rich the rich people are now. We don’t talk about millionaires anymore. It’s billionaires. Hell, I find myself thinking, “oh he’s only a single digit billionaire”. That’s nuts.

When you compare how much wealthier the richest people are to the very, very incremental gains in wage growth, the disillusionment is entirely understandable.

Yep. And rightly or wrongly, both Bernie and Trump blame that in no small part on globalization.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Soon there will be no place in the democrat party for you, a white straight man.

Yeah we are gonna be like those on Star Trek Discovery and Star Wars: The Acolyte. White straight men need not apply. I did watch all the seasons of Discovery by the way.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Yeah we are gonna be like those on Star Trek Discovery and Star Wars: The Acolyte. White straight men need not apply. I did watch all the seasons of Discovery by the way.

We are so oppressed. 😢

 

[zeke4ahs]

Soon there will be no place in the democrat party for you, a white straight man.

I have a feeling most straight , white men are not as insecure as that.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Your last sentence was the driving factor for most in that election. Trump achieved that objective. DC is hellbent on putting him in a dungeon in chains as a warning to anyone that gets the idea to shakeup the DC swamp again.

Do you actually believe he cared about shaking up the swamp? His people were the swampiest of the swamp. How many ended up in trouble?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Yeah we are gonna be like those on Star Trek Discovery and Star Wars: The Acolyte. White straight men need not apply. I did watch all the seasons of Discovery by the way.

Some straight white men seem really scared of losing some of the power they’ve held for oh….eternity. And then there are others who are not nearly so insecure.

 

[outside shooter]

I am still waiting for all of the supposed harm that was going to befall me, in my now 32-year-long marriage to a woman, with the legalization of gay marriage. Somehow I am not seeing any impact. Strange, huh?

 

[dbmhoosier]

I am still waiting for all of the supposed harm that was going to befall me, in my now 32-year-long marriage to a woman, with the legalization of gay marriage. Somehow I am not seeing any impact. Strange, huh?

Yeah none whatsoever. There's also all the trans nonsense this caused. But definitely not a slippery slope at all.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Your last sentence was the driving factor for most in that election. Trump achieved that objective. DC is hellbent on putting him in a dungeon in chains as a warning to anyone that gets the idea to shakeup the DC swamp again.

In Final Act of Defiance, Trump Revokes an Order Meant to Help “Drain the Swamp”

On his last night, Trump revoked an executive order that was his only fulfillment of his promise to drain the swamp.

truthout.org

Trump can't claim to want to drain the swamp when he did this.

 

[T.M.P.]

Soon there will be no place in the democrat party for you, a white straight man.

dumb

 

[BradStevens]

We are so oppressed. 😢

He said straight, Bulk.

 

[outside shooter]

Yeah none whatsoever.

Did any of those things destroy your marriage? I was told that "normal" marriage would no longer have meaning. I was told that it's impossible to give anyone rights without cheapening the existence of the people who have always had those rights. That was always pretty dumb. Not surprised that you are all in, though.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Some straight white men seem really scared of losing some of the power they’ve held for oh….eternity. And then there are others who are not nearly so insecure.

Losing power? If a man has a family he wants to provide for them. Wat are you talking about?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

He said straight, Bulk.

 

[DANC]

It is. It’s all well and good to talk about the increase in total GDP and wealth in America, but if you’re the dude who lost his job to an overseas firm and you’re being told “don’t worry, just move to a different place, retrain, and start a whole new life,” I think it’s pretty easy to see why that wouldn’t be very palatable.

Add in that many of these people are the kind that value their hometown and stableness and it gets even more clear what’s going on.

Oh, come on - if you can work in a mine, you can learn to code.

C'mon, man!

 

[DANC]

What I think about is how very rich the rich people are now. We don’t talk about millionaires anymore. It’s billionaires. Hell, I find myself thinking, “oh he’s only a single digit billionaire”. That’s nuts.

When you compare how much wealthier the richest people are to the very, very incremental gains in wage growth, the disillusionment is entirely understandable.

Many of us single digit millionaires got there the hard way - by working normal jobs, living within our means (more or less), and saving for retirement.

I don't really think about, or care about, anyone with more money.