That was satisfying....
- Thread starter Hoops Cat
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Doubtful. If that was it, he'd more likely be complaining about his tendonitis afterwards.
Never thought this was possible. I was as down as a fan as about anyone. This BiG season has been tremendous though. Gotta give huge props to Crean.
Yeah. I'm still skeptical as f%&$. We could easily have an '02 like run or even win the whole damn thing though.
You and me both. I still think our program would be better off without the Tan One, but this season has at least bought him a couple more. Probably better to hope the improvement in coaching can continue and he settles in. Watching that scene today, it's so tantalizing what this program could be.
Well, I was actually talking about getting a hand job, but since you brought up IU basketball....
If you didn't enjoy that game, I'm sorry for you.
If you didn't watch that game, I'm sick of you.
Taking Crean out of the equation, I'm not sure how you can't like this team. And, no, I'm not a Crean apologist.
Yogi is finally becoming the player that I thought he could be from early on, and I was very critical of him in the early part of this year, but having a senior point guard with his skill set should serve IU well in the B1G and NCAA tourneys.
And I flat out love this freshman class. I suspect Bryant will go pro, although he'd be a beast with another year of college, but O.G. and Howard have impressed me with their overall play. And I really think that the team's recovery from their Maui flatline performance is really due to these guys stepping up.
All this said, though, I told Little Hoopscat a few weeks ago that I wouldn't start believing in this year's team unless they beat Purdue, Iowa, and Maryland. I didn't think they could run that table, even though two of the games were at home. Nonetheless, they did just that. And after today's game, he gave me a quizzical look and asked (in a junior Hoopscat sarcastic tone) if I was happy yet.
The answer is no, not yet, but I've got to admit that I like how this team is playing. They won the game with defense, and generally smart ball management with few turnovers. As for Troy - he is infuriating. I love him, and I hate him, but you can't deny that he changes the tenor of the game, when he plays within himself. Yes - that's a 50/50 proposition, but I guess that's just what we'll have to live with.
At this point, I believe (and yes, hope) that if they get beat in the B1G or the NCAA, it will because the other team was better on that given night, and not because IU choked on their own vomit.
We'll see...
OG and Morgan both look like they have a chance of being fan favorites at IU. Not greatest players, just fan favs (like Moye was)
The effort Morgan gave today diving for balls with his shoulder in a brace 5 days after dislocating it was tremendous. Reminded me of Brian Evans.
Oh, I enjoyed the game tonight tremendously, and virtually the entire big season. Not as much as I should have though because I have constantly been waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I liked that Davis team, too. Jeffries, Cove, Moye, etc...
You all are buying fools gold. Morans.....you are the courage of IU basketball.
I much preferred the halftime show tonight to the last game I went to that had the elementary school indoor-recess activity Simon Says.
I prefer IU halftime be for stats, replays, updates on and honoring other IU teams and athletes, and other people meaningful to being a fan of IU athletics.
I dont recall them mentioning the IU/Purdue all sports rival series that they used to - may have just missed it.
I prefer IU halftime be for stats, replays, updates on and honoring other IU teams and athletes, and other people meaningful to being a fan of IU athletics.
I dont recall them mentioning the IU/Purdue all sports rival series that they used to - may have just missed it.
Did you watch the game today?
And if you did, you didn't enjoy it?
And I'm guessing you meant "scourge" - gawdamn autocorrect....
Allowing Worldwide Wes back into the program has also done wonders. People point to losing Blackmon as the turning point, but that was right around the time Wesley started "hanging out" with the program. I don't think it's coincidental. WWW never scored a point, but his "incentives" are great inspirations.
this really is bizzaro world. Thought I'd share this video I got in an email series I get on coaching. From a coach who presses and he says steals are not the stat to track, but, you guessed it: deflections! C'mon guys, it's all ball-bearings these days.
https://www.breakthroughbasketball....aign=NewsPressStatKelbickPodcastCamps030716MS
https://www.breakthroughbasketball....aign=NewsPressStatKelbickPodcastCamps030716MS
Deflection stats are nothing new and aren't limited to CTC. People here make a big deal about them and his reliance on them for his evaluations but nothing new to track them and focus on them. Back in 2002-2003 when I was helping at IUPUI, tracking deflections was a big deal during practices and carrying over into games. Only NCAA appearance that season as well.....
This may seem obvious, but given we're talking about a new era stat used (manipulated) by college coaches, it should be asked: What constitutes a "deflection"? Any contact the defender has with the ball? Just when the defender substantially alters the ball's path? What about on a non-pass, if your contact just forces the player to pick up the dribble? Is there any uniform definition or does each coach define/count them differently?
I watched. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Davis's run to the title game and the Zeller era.
In the moment, I would enjoy putting in some stripper's herpes infected @$$. At some point my enjoyment of the present gives way to the realization of what it means for the future.
2 years from now when you're watching a Crean team struggle to defend and make the tourney remember that you, and the majority of IU fans, enjoyed yesterday so much...because they will be directly related.
So, my statement that the game was satisfying from what you're saying in what way? I watched the game; I enjoyed it. I like what I'm seeing from the kids. That's pretty much it.
Wherein did I indicate that Crean should be retained, or that I thought he was gotdamn authentic coaching genius? No, he's an ass, and not the coach I'd prefer to have on the bench at IU, but my enjoying an IU win and an outright B1G championship isn't influencing whatever the hell happens in the future.
Unless Glass is carefully monitoring this board, and thinks what we think matters. Bwhahahahahaha
At what point do you get to decide what it means for the future? From a strictly factual standpoint Crean has 2 outright big ten titles in 4 years. That's a pretty big accomplishment no matter how you slice it. I get that a lot of people don't like it, but it is what it is. You can hope that he regresses but that doesn't mean it will happen. I'll hold judgment until the second week of April on whether Crean has earned respect or a bus ticket out of town. He makes a good showing in the tourney and you'll likely see him on the sideline for a lot more than 2 years.
On another note, all you guys who hammered on him for picking up the bad seeds should be praising him for picking up the good ones. Morgan, Anunoby, Bryant and even Niego have provided this team with solid contributions in all facets of the game. He's following that class up with a pretty solid class of Jones, Davis, Green and Gelon with Newkirk thrown in for good measure. If we get 1/2 of what we got out of Ziesloft and Biefieldt from Newkirk it will be a success. If we finish the year respectably we'll be top 25 heading into next season. We'd be top 10 except for losing Yogi.
Except: consistency and tourney success (BTT and NCAA) have eluded him. If he could do it consistently, that to me is what we're after. Most top tier coaches have a run of 8+ yrs, making the tourney, finishing top 4 in conference, Sweet 16's. The down years shouldn't be not making the tourney at a program like IU.
I haven't hammered him for getting bad seeds, and I think most haven't. You're going to have some behavioral issues when dealing with teens, it's dealing with it that I think he's caught the most heat for. I give Crean a lot of credit: he's done a lot of things right, but I didn't see him being able to address his deficiencies. It seems like he has this year with his approach, this team now playing D, etc... I think this season probably has bought him at least 2 more, so to me the best scenario is that he continues to shore up weaknesses and becomes "the guy". I question if that can/will happen, but he's gotten that opportunity so it's up to him if it does.
I've no issue with people who are unconvinced and desire more evidence over a longer period of time. My problem is with people who profess to know the future. Crean's record will make everyone skeptical, but there are those who discounted that this team would ever play defense, would win big road games, could compete for a big ten title, or would end the season ranked in the top 25 (let alone the top 10), based almost exclusively on Crean's record. My point is no one knows how this is going to play out and professing you know it will end badly is the rambling of a butt hurt fan still trying to convince everyone he/she is correct about the coach.
I question if any of that would have happened if JBJ hadn't gotten hurt. That was the transformative moment to me. How much credit do you give the man for that? If he was healthy, I think he'd still be starting and playing a ton and we'd still be a shitty defensive team and would be in the 4-6 range in the BTT, having lost 3-4 more games. Defense wins and it feeds on itself. If you have 1-2 guys (JBJ and TW) who slack on D, the rest of the team won't give maximum effort. Now they see it from their teammates and they are all getting after it more on D. Yogi's been a different defensive player the last 6-8 weeks than we've seen the rest of his time here.
I think that it's highly unlikely the absence of JBJ has resulted in a complete 180. JBJ went down before the Rutger's game and we looked like shite in that game. Your theory is possible but not probable in my opinion.
And also, what does Blackmon's injury have to do with Yogi's defensive turnaround? Nothing - Those aren't related at all. Its plausible that Yogi found the switch, and because he started to play D like it meant something, then his teammates followed suit.
I thought we started turning it around during the ND halftime. I'd like to have that audio.
After that I think it was a matter of buying into every game regardless of opponent. I see the lapses as being a function of the team collective underestimating an opponent than any one person phoning it in.
It's all just guessing, and we did play better in the 2nd half of that game, but I think that had as much/more to do with ND sh*tting the bed, as to a switch flipping in our team. I totally disagree about addition by subtraction on a team. Everyone has complained about JBJ's defense, since even before he arrived. If you see a guy not giving effort on D and he's still starting, that tells everybody something. New guys don't know any different and they think think it's OK, but you take that guy out of the equation and you start seeing guys give more effort on D, and it provides it's own intrinsic reward because you're winning, it can definitely build on itself.
As far as Yogi, look at it from another perspective: in 3.5 years here I've always felt he was capable of more on D. Isn't it more likely that there would be an outside "trigger" like JBJ's injury that prompts him to start giving more effort on D, than him just suddenly "getting it"?
Like you said, it's all guessing. If Crean gets the blame when we play uninspired defense, he has to get the credit when we play inspired defense. We can't change the rules just because we don't like the implication.
That's the difference between you and me. I needed two years. After 7, you're waiting for another month to make up your mind. Sorry man... I really am... but basketball isn't that hard for me.
As far as the bad seeds, that's not me. My one compliment to Crean has been that he recruits pretty well but also gets good, intelligent kids (mostly). That's why every 4 years you get a Zeller or mature Yogi who can carry a team a decent way with no coaching.
And if JBJr never got hurt..... well....
Don't know. Like I said, if it was JBJ's injury that has spurred our improved defensive play, how much credit do you give him for that?
Making up your mind early doesn't necessarily mean you made the right decision. It's easy to say that you dismissed Crean after 2 years, now tell me how the last 5 years would have gone if you had fired him.
All of it. If we continued to suck how much slack would you cut him because of the injury? You'd be on here saying that he practiced them too hard or that he should have recruited depth. Fact is he did recruit depth and that depth came in and played well on both sides of the ball.
I just went for a walkabout to clear my head from the fog of work, and was thinking about this a bit more. I could see a scenario where JBJ goes down, and all of a sudden OG or whoever starts getting those starting 5 reps in practice, and starts playing intense D, and gets rewarded with game time. Then Yogi turns it on.
I'm not guessing; I'm speculating.
I think that's fair. It's also possible that OG started peaking right around the same time JBJ went down with the injury and may have gotten his minutes anyway. More speculation, but just as likely in my opinion. I could also speculate that if JBJ had come back this year it would be with a new commitment to defense or he would continue to sit the bench. Maybe Crean got lucky and this fell into his lap, but he'd still have to get credit for recruiting OG and he certainly couldn't ignore the impact that defense has on his overall success.
Yes, pressing teams track deflections. Hubie Brown did so religiously. Pitino, Smart, Donovan all track deflections as a way to gauge defensive disruptiveness. .
Only, Tom Crean doesn't press, hell he rarely overplays in half court. That's the thing about him - he buys into these stupid gimmicks trying to appear intelligent, (switch everything, switch defenses, JH at point, dribbling into zones, tracking deflections) but when you dig into a bit further, it's not genius, hell it rarely works, just more Crean weirdoism.
Hubie Brown when he was a coach of the Knicks used them and it was picked up by almost every well known coach that uses full or half court pressing defenses. Tom Crean is one of very few who emphasize deflections that doesn't use disruptive defenses. Zone coaches, like Boehiem, wouldn't use them as much because they wouldn't mean as much. When Jim Boehiem says "deflection", he means hitting the ball. When Crean says it, it can mean many things. IIRC Crean considers a charge a deflection. Pitino does not. It's basically arbitrary but I believe it's any action including defensive rebounds (for some) that causes a possession to end - except allowing a basket or fouling.
Crean of course tracks them regardless of zone or man. It's a way to gauge activity from players while in a disruptive defense. So, when did we have one of those? The Crean defense that disrupts the other team? Most coaches track something similar but they don't go on TV waving papers around spastically stating a stat only a few care about and fewer understand.
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Depth is another area I'm actually quite critical of Crean. you say he did recruit depth and I say what if the injury had been to Yogi or TB instead of a wing? He's been incredibly, INCREDIBLY fortunate with Yogi's durability. We should always have 2 PG's (and a third someone like RJ who could play in an emergency), 4-5 posts and the balance wings. Niego seems like he can probably fill that backup spot, and he should be here for a few years, but we lose Biefeldt, next year for sure, so post-wise we are the same, and we're in a hole if TB leaves. We still need another post or 2 and 2-3 would put us with the other elites like KU, UK, UNC, etc.... in terms of "normal" roster construction.
