My wife was very successful at her profession but wanted to give back and became a teacher. We sacrificed for her to go back to school. Got a position after graduating with a Masters degree for jack**** money but that was fine - it was what she wanted to do. She lasted six years - the parents were nuts, kids were always threatening teachers and each other, admin just ignored teachers concerns etc etc… one amusing story….some student found out about her political leaning and wrote on her evaluation that she deserved an “F-minus” because of her beliefs. She left teaching and still doesn’t make much money but she’s safer and less stressed. No one appreciated anything she tried to do for those kids. I felt terrible for her because she really thought it was the right thing to do. I said F them all they don’t deserve your efforts for $30K a year.
The evidence is all around us. Increasing intolerance, increasing medications for anxiety and depression, increasing suicides, more homelessness, more drug use, more unfilled skilled jobs more minority youth violence, less mutual respect.. I could go on. To be sure, poor education does not cause all of these social maladies, but I think a poorly educated population is the most important among all the factors.
Another issue is the epigenetic changes at the molecular level. People with mental diseases and drug addictions survive longer in modern times (for various reasons) and genetic changes that promote certain behaviors continue to multiply in the population.
Both parties suck and are detrimental to teaching, along with most aspects of progress and success. That being said, isn't part of the problem not simply the cost of teacher compensation, but the costs of: 1) admistration (at all levels) and 2) the cost of college?
If teacher compenasation kept up with college inflation, more talented people would think about entering the profession.
I'd also like to point out that teachers often think they are alone. There are many professions that have failed to see real wage growth over the last several decades.
People have always whinged about young adults. Here's proof
Older people love to gripe about the entitled, lazy millennial generation. But it's nothing new – by delving into the archives, we found plenty of parallels stretching back 2,000 years
www.bbc.com
FYI, if I recall from some of your earlier posts, you are in the Chicagoland area. Check out Russian School of Math (multiple locations). Last summer, we sent our rising 4th grader and 8th grader. 2 nights a week (5:30-7:30ish). It didn’t interfere with camps or summer sports. They both really enjoyed it, liked meeting a mix of kids from other schools and the 2 hours straight they felt was more effective (plus there was homework). Both took classes that helped them lean in to their upcoming curriculum. The biggest benefit I observed was avoiding “summer brain”. Cost was very reasonable vs other summer activities (they do provide year round curriculum as a supplement, but for right now we have only signed up for summers).
In a stunning surprise no one in education could ever have predicted….
Teacher turnover hits new highs across U.S.
The data confirms fears that the stresses of the pandemic would prompt an outflow of teachers.www.chalkbeat.org
"This data also suggests that spiking stress levels, student behavior challenges, and a harsh political spotlight have all taken their toll on many American teachers."
Another bad development in education.
Did the same with my kids. Helps them start the new school year with a strong foundation in that year's math and even to tutor their classmates some (which is one way that we've found they can really cement the learning.)
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Thanks. I've read about Russian Math and have been interested. If my kids were younger, I think I would have done that. I'm looking more for something that would get him interested in competitive math competitions.
You need only to look at the graduation rates of teachers from our universities on a graph to see the problem. When I attended the Indiana Graduation 10 years ago the smallest discipline was the Dept of Education. It was an absurd event. From my football season ticket seats, it reminded me of some medieval ceremony. I was shocked at the number of teachers. Not enough to support Indy, let alone the entire state.
And a lot of the ones quitting are the younger ones. Just at my kids school of the 10 or so who’ve quit in their elementary time it’s been the young ones. I’d say it’s half/half as far as career change or going to online teaching.
Here is a ”well do’uh“ link. The nations’ IQ is slipping. It’s slipping among age groups most recently out of the public education system. The authors of this study claim to have factored out other causes and conclude that our educational system is failing. I agre. I think the empirical evidence of that is everywhere. Kids are not taught to think. They are taught to conform and to allow their feelings dominate their behavior. This is new. It isn’t historical as you suggest. I’m not surprised. This is part of our decline,People have always whinged about young adults. Here's proof
Older people love to gripe about the entitled, lazy millennial generation. But it's nothing new – by delving into the archives, we found plenty of parallels stretching back 2,000 years
Historic decline in IQ could stem from poor education, study shows
A recent study suggests that, for the first time in nearly 100 years, Americans’ average IQ is declining, a trend that the study's authors theorize could result from the quality of education.
I am not sure I buy into their cause, but this is a worldwide problem since 1975. Do we think woke started causing lower IQs across the world starting in 1975:Here is a ”well do’uh“ link. The nations’ IQ is slipping. It’s slipping among age groups most recently out of the public education system. The authors of this study claim to have factored out other causes and conclude that our educational system is failing. I agre. I think the empirical evidence of that is everywhere. Kids are not taught to think. They are taught to conform and to allow their feelings dominate their behavior. This is new. It isn’t historical as you suggest. I’m not surprised. This is part of our decline,
Historic decline in IQ could stem from poor education, study shows
A recent study suggests that, for the first time in nearly 100 years, Americans’ average IQ is declining, a trend that the study's authors theorize could result from the quality of education.www.campusreform.org
The average rate of decline has been around three IQ points a decade, amounting to the loss of about 13.5 percent in average intelligence between 1975 and 2020. Results from separate studies carried out in seven different countries describe a general loss of intelligence. So far, researchers have been unable to confidently assign a cause to this noteworthy decline, saying only that it is not genetic and must therefore be due to something in society’s living environment.
Idiocracy: is the decline in human intelligence undermining democracy? - MAHB
The original version of this article was published at Surviving C21 on October 7, 2021 The early 21st Century has been noteworthy for a marked increase in the number of governments willing to act against the interests of their electors – and the number of electors prepared to vote against their...
mahb.stanford.edu
Here is another study showing worldwide decline, yes the bottom 2 are projections :
| Year | Population×109 | Mean IQ |
|---|---|---|
1950 | 2.55 | 91.64 |
1975 | 4.08 | 90.80 |
2000 | 6.07 | 89.20 |
2025 | 7.82 | 87.81 |
2050 | 9.06 | 86.32 |
I think the smaller schools graduate more teachers - Ball State, for example.
I don't think IU is really noted for its Education department.
Perfect example is this board. Everyone over 60, except Mark, is a helluva lot smarter than the younger ones.I am not sure I buy into their cause, but this is a worldwide problem since 1975. Do we think woke started causing lower IQs across the world starting in 1975:
The average rate of decline has been around three IQ points a decade, amounting to the loss of about 13.5 percent in average intelligence between 1975 and 2020. Results from separate studies carried out in seven different countries describe a general loss of intelligence. So far, researchers have been unable to confidently assign a cause to this noteworthy decline, saying only that it is not genetic and must therefore be due to something in society’s living environment.Idiocracy: is the decline in human intelligence undermining democracy? - MAHB
The original version of this article was published at Surviving C21 on October 7, 2021 The early 21st Century has been noteworthy for a marked increase in the number of governments willing to act against the interests of their electors – and the number of electors prepared to vote against their...
Here is another study showing worldwide decline, yes the bottom 2 are projections :
Year Population×109 Mean IQ
I keed, I keed......
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Fantastic - I love it! Well it’s controversial whether Epigenetic heredity is actually categorized as Lamarckism.
We don't have to exercise our brains as much anymore is my guess. When I was a kid I think of all the stuff I used to have to memorize that are in our pockets now. Friends and family phone numbers, spelling, basic math, just random dumb facts.I am not sure I buy into their cause, but this is a worldwide problem since 1975. Do we think woke started causing lower IQs across the world starting in 1975:
The average rate of decline has been around three IQ points a decade, amounting to the loss of about 13.5 percent in average intelligence between 1975 and 2020. Results from separate studies carried out in seven different countries describe a general loss of intelligence. So far, researchers have been unable to confidently assign a cause to this noteworthy decline, saying only that it is not genetic and must therefore be due to something in society’s living environment.Idiocracy: is the decline in human intelligence undermining democracy? - MAHB
The original version of this article was published at Surviving C21 on October 7, 2021 The early 21st Century has been noteworthy for a marked increase in the number of governments willing to act against the interests of their electors – and the number of electors prepared to vote against their...
Here is another study showing worldwide decline, yes the bottom 2 are projections :
Year Population×109 Mean IQ
I think technology is literally making us dumber. It does the thinking for us so we have people never really developing an ability to do it for themselves.
I just wonder how the sampling is done. Are more people being tested for IQ now vs 50 or 100 years ago?
It would be interesting if there was a study on native tribes that haven't been affected as much by technology over the last century - did their IQ go down, too?
IQ scores measure nothing more than ones ability to score well on IQ tests. My Mensa card is proof of that.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
No, they measure something. Here's an article making a version of your claim, but even it admits that IQ correlates strongly with a lot of things we associate with intelligence:
IQ and Society
The deeply interconnected web of IQ and societal outcomes
"IQ is part of a large “nexus” of positively correlated societal outcomes. IQ correlates positively with family income, socioeconomic status, school and occupational performance, military training assignments, law-abidingness, healthful habits, illness, and morality. In contrast, IQ is negatively correlated with welfare, psychopathology, crime, inattentiveness, boredom, delinquency, and poverty. The correlations exist.
. . .
To be clear: IQ tests do not simply index family background. IQ and SAT scores are still correlated with important academic and societal outcomes even after taking into account socioeconomic status."
Donald Trump will never be accused of being smart, and I will never be considered successful.No, they measure something. Here's an article making a version of your claim, but even it admits that IQ correlates strongly with a lot of things we associate with intelligence:
IQ and Society
The deeply interconnected web of IQ and societal outcomesblogs.scientificamerican.com
"IQ is part of a large “nexus” of positively correlated societal outcomes. IQ correlates positively with family income, socioeconomic status, school and occupational performance, military training assignments, law-abidingness, healthful habits, illness, and morality. In contrast, IQ is negatively correlated with welfare, psychopathology, crime, inattentiveness, boredom, delinquency, and poverty. The correlations exist.
. . .
To be clear: IQ tests do not simply index family background. IQ and SAT scores are still correlated with important academic and societal outcomes even after taking into account socioeconomic status."
Maybe I'm just too smart for my own good.
my wife works in the school system and I constantly hear the stories
I used to joke that I can handle kids one at a time but put me in a room with 25 of them for 8 hrs a day...
I'd either be going to jail for pinning one by the throat up against the wall
or hiding, curled up somewhere in a corner with a bottle of booze
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IU’s education department was all loose, rich Jewish girls when I went there.
I do not know about numbers of graduates, but it is rated fairly highly.
Rankings
The IU School of Education is among the elite education programs in the United States.
Not a big fan of the IQ test myself.
And for you assholes who will reply "That's because you score low on it", the jokes on you - I've never taken one.
LOL That's an IU site.......I do not know about numbers of graduates, but it is rated fairly highly.
Rankings
The IU School of Education is among the elite education programs in the United States.education.indiana.edu
I didn't say it wasn't a quality school - I said smaller colleges graduate more teachers and I believe that to be true.
I'll pull a Joe Biden here - this is no lie: My wife was in the same sorority with a girl who was in the Dept of Education, studying to be a teacher. One class SHE NEVER WENT TO A SINGLE CLASS. Got all F's that semester.
She went on to have a long career as a teacher outside Atlanta, Ga.
I’m readings a lot about how the education system is failing or has failed. But I’m not seeing a lot of recognition that losing teachers, those adults who spend 13 years and 8 hours a day with our kids, is a huge societal problem. Ensuring that the teaching profession attracts the best and brightest to educate our kids shouldn’t be political.
I live is a very red state and the local school district is very conservative, yet we are dealing with this issue too. This isn’t a “woke” issue that can be brushed off as a California problem. This is a local problem regardless where you live.
I live is a very red state and the local school district is very conservative, yet we are dealing with this issue too. This isn’t a “woke” issue that can be brushed off as a California problem. This is a local problem regardless where you live.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I agree with all this except the bolded part. I don't think the teaching profession has ever attracted the best and brightest, certainly not at the K-12 level. Maybe we should try for that, but if so, we would have to dramatically increase teacher salaries, while firing a lot of current teachers.
And remember, we have 3.6 to 3.8 million teachers in the US. That's a lot of money.
The cost or investment in teaching does not make sense for IUB grads.
Fair call on that hyperbole. How about this, it should be viewed as a profession we would all be proud for our kids to go into? Instead, looking at ROI and job satisfaction, most sober minded parents would dissuade their kids from becoming teachers. I find that profoundly disappointing.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I've called for this before on here. I'm all for it. But that means year-round work (no summers off) and longer days for teachers, more continuing education, etc. Current teachers would riot.
And to get the extra money needed for this (which the Repubs will be hard to convince), we are going to need to de-politicize teaching and the teacher's unions. I'm not sure the Dems will go for that.
It's a tough nut to crack.
That nuts only going to get tougher to crack with home prices and car prices. Teacher in public schools here starts at $43k with an M.A. and the yearly bumps are tiny. Doesn’t make sense to be a teacher
Teachers do get pensions, which I know I would much prefer over my 401K. Looking at the market this week, I'd much much prefer it to a 401k. So I am not sure pay alone needs to change that significantly.
I would think the improved student loan repayment for not-for-profit employees would also be a nice incentive to become a teacher. One might make a lot more in the private world, but they'll pay a whole lot more.
I suspect there are things we can to make teaching more attractive that don't cost that much.
Pensions aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Getting $1500 a month isn’t the high life.
They're graduate school rankings.
"Based on US News and World Report 2023 Best Graduate Education Schools rankings"
I bet Zeke is getting more than $1500 a month.
She's jetting all over the world on her teacher's pension.
