Since this is Archie's first year
- Thread starter cmo1
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I'd rather hire Crean back.
And fire him again the same day..
That would make far more sense.
Yes, and next year as well as long as the team continues to show improvement. I don't think you can truly judge him as a coach until he has a team of his own players. That said, each year as he adds more of his own players I do expect the team to improve
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Cam should have taken us to the Final 4 despite inheriting a team that missed the NCAA last year, refused an NIT bid because the administration was as sick of watching the team as we were, and having the same team back minus our top 2 contributors. Let's fire him and bring back Crean!
Is that the answer you wanted to hear? It is a stupid answer to a stupid question.
Depends on how they miss it. If they lose all the rest of their games, That would probably be a red flag. But, if they end up 17-15 but don't get invited, well, it's only mildly bothersome.
IU has won one game I thought they'd lose, and lost two games I thought they'd win. Overall, that's a mildly disappointing season, but nothing to get bent out of shape about in year 1.
IU has won one game I thought they'd lose, and lost two games I thought they'd win. Overall, that's a mildly disappointing season, but nothing to get bent out of shape about in year 1.
They did not refuse the NIT bid but just turned down the home game or don't you remember that great NIT game at GA. Tech.
That's right. I didn't I watch the game, so it is like we didn't play. Not watching or caring marked my low point for basketball.
It was lower for me than the NCAA violations as strange as it sounds.
In my book, he has to do better than the predicted 9th in the conference. That is the measuring stick I'm using this year.
In some ways, the 85-86 Hoosiers were similar to this team. Guard play (other than Alford) was not great, and they were under-sized. That was Stew Robinson/ Winston Morgan's senior year. They did have the benefit of being in Knight's system though, making this season a tougher go.
The year IU brought in 8 freshmen they were 8-10 in conference.
Next year, we need to see a nice jump so long as they get another decent guard into the fold.
If Langford signs, the improvement could be dramatic, especially if Davis is healthy.
In some ways, the 85-86 Hoosiers were similar to this team. Guard play (other than Alford) was not great, and they were under-sized. That was Stew Robinson/ Winston Morgan's senior year. They did have the benefit of being in Knight's system though, making this season a tougher go.
The year IU brought in 8 freshmen they were 8-10 in conference.
Next year, we need to see a nice jump so long as they get another decent guard into the fold.
If Langford signs, the improvement could be dramatic, especially if Davis is healthy.
People need to put some of this in context. Fans who are saying that this team is “similar to the 198X team” have to remember that this 2018 year is one in which the BIG is at an all time low. It is awful, probably as bad as it has ever been. When you got IU hovering between 6-7th place ain the conference, that tells you exactly how putrid the conference is this year.
If you cannot make an NIT this year, in this conference, your program stinks.
Archie has got a lot of work to do. Why does everybody assume that 1st year coaches get a free pass?
Plenty of coaches have come in and had instant success.....but that only happens at programs that don’t have to rebuild with every new coach.
IU is sadly a rebuild type of program.
In my opinion, that is partially correct.
1. Not everybody assumes that 1st year coaches get a free pass. I'm guessing you don't.
The free pass might be if there isn't the right mix of role playing players...or if the players don't have the moxy or training...coming back.
2. Plenty of coaches have come in and had instant success...implies that quite a few don't.
3. IU is a rebuild type of program, true. Now it is. It wasn't years ago. It may not be in a few years.
4. The program has stunk for almost 2 decades...so?
5. Archie has got a lot of work to do. He is doing it. He still may be able to turn this around this year. I doubt it. Not without Davis and Hartman.
Maybe some of us realize that instant gratification isn't in IU's best long-term interest. Would surely be nice. But not at the cost of cheating....or not representing Indiana as a great institute of higher learning.
I really like Archie. I think he is a great fit for IU. Maybe I just fooled myself into thinking we’d at least reach the NIT this year. Whatever reason it’s either the players or the players don’t mesh with the staff… Who knows.
The principles that Archie is teaching are foreign to most of our players. It’s going to take time for underclassman to learn, and we will have to bring in recruits that already know those principles. Juwan Morgan and Zach McRoberts are the only upperclassmen that were taught this style of basketball in high school. Luckily, those two guys will be leading the team next year. I think we will get Langford, and make the tournament. We just have to weather through the learning curve this year.
The administration tolerates and even embraces mediocrity. They have no interest in actually winning. They go through the motions of having an athletics department. And our fanbase lets them get away with it. Tennessee fans got their new AD fired for hiring Schiano. Nebraska fired its AD for hiring Mike Riley. Glass screws up constantly and feels no pressure from the university president. If we want to not be a joke, the fans need to scream and yell and force change.
That's pretty funny.
Good one.
Except everything written in your post is wrong.
Keep posting. It's fun muting a troll like you.
What have you done to get the action who want to happen besides bitching on a message board. Why not let IU know of your displeasure with program and the first thing you should do is to leave this message board to sow them you will no longer tolerate the mediocrity any longer. I don't know it will have any influence on the program but it would sure help this board out.
I understand and share some of IUgradman’s frustration with the sins of IU ADs over the years. Where we differ is that I like Fred Glass. I don’t fault him for the absolute apathy that existed in IU’s AD over 4 decades. He’s the one AD that has made more investment in the programs than any other and I truly believe the path to success is heavy investment in football and then b-ball is a natural piggyback on that. That is the formula these days to consistent programs. But I don’t fault Fred for the idiocy of administrators like Myles Brand, Adam Herbert or Sweet Clarence Donniger.
Fred is cleaning up a decades old tanker spill.
I loved the success of Tom Jurich. Thought he’d be a great success at IU. But that guy was scum and wouldn’t want him tarnishing this university. He was toxic, in hindsight.
Funny, because the 1985 Big Ten season is much like this season.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/big-ten/1985.html
They got 6 in the NCAA then, 5 will get in this year.
But, looking at the rankings, it wasn’t pretty for the B10.
No. That's not what he wanted. He wanted to be able to say he started a thread that had a lot of responses.
Uh, OK, what? You said: "The administration tolerates and even embraces mediocrity."
Does this even mean something? How does a person "embrace" mediocrity?
Pics please.
Going to the NIT doesn't always give you a springboard for the following season.
I'd say it wasn't his coaching but the underachieving player's he has.
I'd say it wasn't his coaching but the underachieving player's he has.
The powers to be would never hire a guy that was even closely associated with a coach like Pitino..
The Ville still has that neck brace wearing .Motorcycle riding nut case of a football coach.. I don't care hat that guys done..That's an embarrassment rehire.
The Ville still has that neck brace wearing .Motorcycle riding nut case of a football coach.. I don't care hat that guys done..That's an embarrassment rehire.
He's lied and and covered up I'll gotten money from the university consistently. He is not of our culture.
Absolutely. Not his recruits. I like these kids, they are learning to play hard and tough but we are are at a huge disadvantage. No real shooters and then with the loss of Davis, it's even more challenging. I've played and watched enough ball to know a real coach when I see one. Archie has a high basketball IQ, something that his been sorely missing here for years.
You're right IU should've hired Archie a year earlier and they wouldn't be in this position but in no way has Archie underachieved! If you're saying that you know nothing about sports much less basketball.
Romeo was supposedly a Louisville lean. That’s associated with Pitino. Does that bother anybody that iu still wants him badly?
Not trying to start anything but doesn’t it make you wonder if something was going on there since we’ve now seen how Pitino got some of his players? Im not accusing but guilt by association sometimes comes into play.
Also many of you have openly said that the only way he goes to Vandy is if Drew is cheating. Wouldn’t that mean Romeo is too?
I’m sure some of you are closely associated with him. I’m
Just wondering aloud. If he goes to Vandy is he on the take?
Purdue fans always say that MSU paid to get Dawson yet you still complain about not getting him. If MSU paid him then why would you still have wanted him at PU.
Sometimes you can really just count up the ranked recruits and it will paint a picture.
Not even considering roster balance, experience, scheme that they are playing in, etc.
We have 4 ranked players right now...Johnson, Morgan, Justin Smith and Clifton Moore.
That's about as low as we've had since Crean's second season (he had Watford, Hulls, Elston, Verdell, Bawa...not counting Creek).
He also didn't actively recruit any of these guys. They are all leftovers. One nice thing that Holtmann and Underwood has had is they brought in a handful of guys they actively recruited. Archie kept Crean's entire roster to his credit. In hindsight what if Arch brings Wright and Naz Carter who are both playing well...better than Moore and Durham. Or maybe he gets a grad transfer? I don't know.
I do know that we are playing with a toughness that we haven't seen in a long time while playing one four star (Johnson), one three star (Morgan) and a bunch of unranked guys (McRoberts, Freddie, Hartman, Newkirk, Durham, Green). One being a walk on and another being a 6'6" juco who were asking to defend the post.
Now granted Davis wasn't fitting in, but he's got talent and big guys can take awhile (see Diop or even Black at Illinois who is still figuring it out).
Anyway just counting can reveal a lot.
Purdue ranked guys off the top of my head are...V Edwards, C Edwards, D Matthius, I Haas, R Cline, N Eastern, some other freshman big who isn't playing like Clifton. Maybe more. Obviously Haarms is a high 4 star player but since he wasn't ranked due to being foreign I left him off.
Anyway, you can simply count most rosters and it will directionally paint a picture (spoiler alert, OSU has a lot of ranked guys on their roster).
What Archie is doing with what he has is pretty impressive.
His style raises our floor tremendously. I honestly believe Crean would have been hiding in his basement by now if he was trying to coach this roster that he put together while losing Davis and Curtis (not that Curtis did much but he was a highly ranked guy).
Not even considering roster balance, experience, scheme that they are playing in, etc.
We have 4 ranked players right now...Johnson, Morgan, Justin Smith and Clifton Moore.
That's about as low as we've had since Crean's second season (he had Watford, Hulls, Elston, Verdell, Bawa...not counting Creek).
He also didn't actively recruit any of these guys. They are all leftovers. One nice thing that Holtmann and Underwood has had is they brought in a handful of guys they actively recruited. Archie kept Crean's entire roster to his credit. In hindsight what if Arch brings Wright and Naz Carter who are both playing well...better than Moore and Durham. Or maybe he gets a grad transfer? I don't know.
I do know that we are playing with a toughness that we haven't seen in a long time while playing one four star (Johnson), one three star (Morgan) and a bunch of unranked guys (McRoberts, Freddie, Hartman, Newkirk, Durham, Green). One being a walk on and another being a 6'6" juco who were asking to defend the post.
Now granted Davis wasn't fitting in, but he's got talent and big guys can take awhile (see Diop or even Black at Illinois who is still figuring it out).
Anyway just counting can reveal a lot.
Purdue ranked guys off the top of my head are...V Edwards, C Edwards, D Matthius, I Haas, R Cline, N Eastern, some other freshman big who isn't playing like Clifton. Maybe more. Obviously Haarms is a high 4 star player but since he wasn't ranked due to being foreign I left him off.
Anyway, you can simply count most rosters and it will directionally paint a picture (spoiler alert, OSU has a lot of ranked guys on their roster).
What Archie is doing with what he has is pretty impressive.
His style raises our floor tremendously. I honestly believe Crean would have been hiding in his basement by now if he was trying to coach this roster that he put together while losing Davis and Curtis (not that Curtis did much but he was a highly ranked guy).
Hartman was ranked. I actually think he was a 4-star when he committed, but slid back over the next couple years. Also, we had two more 4-stars (Davis, Jones), when we lost to ISU and FW. But...it's year 1.
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