Should health care premiums increase for the unvaccinated?...

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Yep, omicron infects so many it is a problem. Look at Florida's rates today, if hospitalizations is lag 10 days as tradition has, their hospitals will be filled.

Which goes to my continual point, local people on the ground should be able to make policies that fit that community. If the virus is not bad, business is normal, if thing's go south back to masks and distancing. Nationwide or statewide orders make no sense. That means both orders to mask or not to.

Yep, omicron infects so many it is a problem. Look at Florida's rates today, if hospitalizations is lag 10 days as tradition has, their hospitals will be filled.

Which goes to my continual point, local people on the ground should be able to make policies that fit that community. If the virus is not bad, business is normal, if thing's go south back to masks and distancing. Nationwide or statewide orders make no sense. That means both orders to mask or not to.

i think the broader point is, you are critical of one approach to stay open and let things run their course while the opposite approach has not yielded much better results, as of yet.

cases reaching all time highs in heavily vaccinated Europe. Hospitalizations have fared only marginally better in places like Germany and the Uk while Spain and France track the US quite closely

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

That defeats the purpose of insurance. Insurance is supposed to spread total risk across the entire pool. The fairest pool is one that includes everyone. Yes, some are winners and some are losers. "Personalized" insurance is a contradiction in terms. Might as well do away with insurance altogether and have everyone self insure.

that’s what smart employers have done/are doing, particularly if they have an attractive risk pool

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I am not suggesting that there are one plan per single person but different buckets. After all, what's the difference between someone choosing not to vaccinate and a person who chooses to eat 2 Macs and extra large fries every day of their lives? I am sure their actuarists can figure out the various buckets.

Besides its as good a behaviour modification tool as any; I get disincentivised for certain choices and incentivised for others. Personal responsibility.

Health insurance was used as a tool to protect you from the 'unlikely events --- to now trying to protect you who what seems like a lifestyle shift to inevitable events.

It's no longer a sustainable model.

the communist is coming around!!!

 

[UncleMark]

I am not suggesting that there are one plan per single person but different buckets. After all, what's the difference between someone choosing not to vaccinate and a person who chooses to eat 2 Macs and extra large fries every day of their lives? I am sure their actuarists can figure out the various buckets.

How many buckets, and what criteria? Young/Old? Fat/Thin? Vaxxed/Unvaxxed? Smoker/Non-smoker? Man/Woman? Urban/Rural? Black/White?

And then there's the whole pre-existing conditions thing.

I'm a thin smoker who doesn't exercise and eats a lot of junk who never gets sick and never needs meds and never goes to the doctor. The insurance companies made out like bandits covering me. My wife, on the other hand, through no fault of her own (thin, non-smoker, eats well, exercises) has a constellation of health issues and has cost the insurance companies crazy amounts of money.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but pooling the healthy with the healthy and the sick with the sick isn't one of them.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

i think the broader point is, you are critical of one approach to stay open and let things run their course while the opposite approach has not yielded much better results, as of yet.

cases reaching all time highs in heavily vaccinated Europe. Hospitalizations have fared only marginally better in places like Germany and the Uk while Spain and France track the US quite closely

Everywhere I look the percentage unvaccinated are overrepresented in hospitals and deaths.

 

[sglowrider]

How many buckets, and what criteria? Young/Old? Fat/Thin? Vaxxed/Unvaxxed? Smoker/Non-smoker? Man/Woman? Urban/Rural? Black/White?

And then there's the whole pre-existing conditions thing.

I'm a thin smoker who doesn't exercise and eats a lot of junk who never gets sick and never needs meds and never goes to the doctor. The insurance companies made out like bandits covering me. My wife, on the other hand, through no fault of her own (thin, non-smoker, eats well, exercises) has a constellation of health issues and has cost the insurance companies crazy amounts of money.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but pooling the healthy with the healthy and the sick with the sick isn't one of them.

They are already doing that -- car insurance for example. They use profiling and some GIS functions.
As to the healthcare side of things, I would need to look at the data that the actuaries have. They can apply some algorithms but you build in some machine learning functionality where you can change your risk factors after starting from a typical baseline for your particular profile.

 

[mcmurtry66]

How many buckets, and what criteria? Young/Old? Fat/Thin? Vaxxed/Unvaxxed? Smoker/Non-smoker? Man/Woman? Urban/Rural? Black/White?

And then there's the whole pre-existing conditions thing.

I'm a thin smoker who doesn't exercise and eats a lot of junk who never gets sick and never needs meds and never goes to the doctor. The insurance companies made out like bandits covering me. My wife, on the other hand, through no fault of her own (thin, non-smoker, eats well, exercises) has a constellation of health issues and has cost the insurance companies crazy amounts of money.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but pooling the healthy with the healthy and the sick with the sick isn't one of them.

Yup and it's crazy how much loss is spread, beyond risk pools, across borders, into other markets, reinsurance - on and on

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Alright, since you are deciding to play a politics game... let's give it a few months Marv and revisit in Spring 2022, shall we?

Thinking about this, it was for 2021. Unless NY has a lot in the next couple days it is a time of 3 months of fall, 3 of spring, 3 of summer, 3 of winter. No state should have an advantage, it is not covering 2 summers against Florida or 2 winters against NY.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

How many buckets, and what criteria? Young/Old? Fat/Thin? Vaxxed/Unvaxxed? Smoker/Non-smoker? Man/Woman? Urban/Rural? Black/White?

And then there's the whole pre-existing conditions thing.

I'm a thin smoker who doesn't exercise and eats a lot of junk who never gets sick and never needs meds and never goes to the doctor. The insurance companies made out like bandits covering me. My wife, on the other hand, through no fault of her own (thin, non-smoker, eats well, exercises) has a constellation of health issues and has cost the insurance companies crazy amounts of money.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but pooling the healthy with the healthy and the sick with the sick isn't one of them.

the Groundhog Day debate.

where every day we debate how to solve a problem that was already solved, and proven, the day before by the entire rest of the civilized world.

and the day before that, and the day before that, ad infinitum.

total idiocracy meets insatiable corporate greed, with the healthcare consumer being the loser every time.

you'd think people would eventually have the light go on.

but somehow, they don't.

 

[Crayfish57]

They are already doing that -- car insurance for example. They use profiling and some GIS functions.
As to the healthcare side of things, I would need to look at the data that the actuaries have. They can apply some algorithms but you build in some machine learning functionality where you can change your risk factors after starting from a typical baseline for your particular profile.

Yet I'm sure you voted for Obama and his wonderful plan, that plan was what he ran on that was the absolute polar opposite of what you are yammering on about. I actually agree with some of your premise . What is laughable is who it is coming from. Liberals seem to be all for socialism until it actually hits them in their wallet then they scream about it. I'm sure the people that couldn't afford to buy their own insurance are more likely to have health problems as a group than ones that can buy their own. They are also more likely to run to the doctor for everything, more likely to get pregnant which is 100% preventable

''As to the healthcare side of things, I would need to look at the data that the actuaries have.'' Yeah like you are going to solve this problem

 

[IUCrazy2]

The insurance business model, in general, should change, never mind for the Covid uncleans.

Why should we healthy lifestyle folks be paying for people who want to over-drink, over-eat and in this case not believe in science by being put into the same bucket/pool of payers?

Personalise insurance and put people into their relative pools/buckets. Why should I make all the effort and then have others pull the curve down (and increase the premiums) for me?
They are already providing incentives with various companies to incentivise a healthy lifestyle here. I can see it going towards a more personalised approach in terms of health insurance.

Now do welfare.

 

[sglowrider]

Yet I'm sure you voted for Obama and his wonderful plan, that plan was what he ran on that was the absolute polar opposite of what you are yammering on about. I actually agree with some of your premise . What is laughable is who it is coming from. Liberals seem to be all for socialism until it actually hits them in their wallet then they scream about it. I'm sure the people that couldn't afford to buy their own insurance are more likely to have health problems as a group than ones that can buy their own. They are also more likely to run to the doctor for everything, more likely to get pregnant which is 100% preventable

''As to the healthcare side of things, I would need to look at the data that the actuaries have.'' Yeah like you are going to solve this problem

Err... I have built behaviour modification platforms for different behaviour profiles and their associated pedagogies --- in the context of chronic diseases driven by algorithms/machine learning.
Having taken quite a few stats classes at Kelly helps too.

 

[NPT]

A friend of mine and I were discussing over the weekend and then I saw this article.

Could Health Insurance Cost More for the Unvaccinated?

As COVID case numbers tick up again, but most people who are being hospitalized are among the unvaccinated, some people are floating the idea that health insurance companies could or should charge a premium for anyone who doesn’t get the shot.

www.nbcboston.com

I think I'm good with increased rates. Thoughts?

I think some companies are already doing that but it opens Pandora's box in my opinion. Should overweight people be charged higher premiums? ... and so on.

 

[Crayfish57]

Err... I have built behaviour modification platforms for different behaviour profiles and their associated pedagogies --- in the context of chronic diseases driven by algorithms/machine learning.
Having taken quite a few stats classes at Kelly helps too.

I'm sure you are the only person to have done so which explains how the whole system is screwed. We have just been waiting on slowrider to fix it.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Yet I'm sure you voted for Obama and his wonderful plan, that plan was what he ran on that was the absolute polar opposite of what you are yammering on about. I actually agree with some of your premise . What is laughable is who it is coming from. Liberals seem to be all for socialism until it actually hits them in their wallet then they scream about it. I'm sure the people that couldn't afford to buy their own insurance are more likely to have health problems as a group than ones that can buy their own. They are also more likely to run to the doctor for everything, more likely to get pregnant which is 100% preventable

''As to the healthcare side of things, I would need to look at the data that the actuaries have.'' Yeah like you are going to solve this problem

he was a big Obama supporter but cannot vote because he isn’t a citizen

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Thinking about this, it was for 2021. Unless NY has a lot in the next couple days it is a time of 3 months of fall, 3 of spring, 3 of summer, 3 of winter. No state should have an advantage, it is not covering 2 summers against Florida or 2 winters against NY.

Calendarization seems like a very myopic approach.

 

[NPT]

That defeats the purpose of insurance. Insurance is supposed to spread total risk across the entire pool. The fairest pool is one that includes everyone. Yes, some are winners and some are losers. "Personalized" insurance is a contradiction in terms. Might as well do away with insurance altogether and have everyone self insure.

Well it does spread the risk over like minded groups and I have no problem with that. Just because I try to drive safely and don't fly down the highway doesn't mean that I should pay the same as someone who has had several accidents where they were the cause.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Calendarization seems like a very myopic approach.

Why, does it not normalize the weather issue? We do it with excess deaths, those are by year. Weather records are by year. Imagine if I argued June 20-August of 21 was hotter in North America than December of 19-February of 20? Both are the same number of months.

While the numbers for NY will be bad the next couple months, they were terrible last Dec-Jan. If we stick with an apples-to-apples 12 month cycle it won’t matter. This year’s terrible numbers will just replace last year’s terrible numbers.

 

[UncleMark]

Well it does spread the risk over like minded groups and I have no problem with that. Just because I try to drive safely and don't fly down the highway doesn't mean that I should pay the same as someone who has had several accidents where they were the cause.

My wife is a good driver, so the insurance companies make out well on her in that area. But she drew the short straw when it comes to her health -- unrelated to lifestyle. Should her genetic bad luck be held against her?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Err... I have built behaviour modification platforms for different behaviour profiles and their associated pedagogies --- in the context of chronic diseases driven by algorithms/machine learning.
Having taken quite a few stats classes at Kelly helps too.

Well, now you've done it...you've brought up college classes in an argument with cray. Degrees are for socialist jerks who only want to make him look dumb.

 

[Crayfish57]

he was a big Obama supporter but cannot vote because he isn’t a citizen

Even better !

 

[Crayfish57]

Well, now you've done it...you've brought up college classes in an argument with cray. Degrees are for socialist jerks who only want to make him look dumb.

You don't need any help looking dumb, God took care of that for you.

 

[Crayfish57]

Well it does spread the risk over like minded groups and I have no problem with that. Just because I try to drive safely and don't fly down the highway doesn't mean that I should pay the same as someone who has had several accidents where they were the cause.

Before Obama there was some choice in health insurance and the ability to do that. The difference is people think health insurance is a right by birth vs you have to actually get auto insurance on your own. Never understood why people think that because some one hires you to work for them, they should provide your health insurance beyond job related incidents. Why not have them provide insurance for your personal vehicle as well? it makes about as much sense.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You don't need any help looking dumb, God took care of that for you.

Yes, he did, as all newborns are completely ignorant. Unlike you, I decided to make myself less dumb. You seem to have become resigned, even proud, of your situation.
Good for you.

 

[Spartans9312]

That defeats the purpose of insurance. Insurance is supposed to spread total risk across the entire pool. The fairest pool is one that includes everyone. Yes, some are winners and some are losers. "Personalized" insurance is a contradiction in terms. Might as well do away with insurance altogether and have everyone self insure.

He seems to think we each control our own destinies with proper nutrition and exercise—but it’s not true. Our health depends almost exclusively on genetics +/- luck. Many studies in the med lit to support that.

We can even look at this regarding fat deposits— note that people who put fat mostly into “the love handles” have much lower rates of CAD than those who put it on up front—all genetically controlled…..A lot of people have fantasies about diet and exercise (not that those aren’t important). Experience shows genetics trump both.