Shots fired at Trump's PA campaign rally

[Hoopsdoc1978]

As far as conspiracies go I will say this:

I Do believe that the Head of Homeland Security and the Head of the Secret Service are complicit by clearly giving Trump an undermanned, third team, security detail because no matter who was assigned to secure that rooftop the basic oversight and follow up simply wasn't there...

From what I saw on tape it appeared that about half the detail knew their business and the other half didn't have a clue... Only the grace of God, a turn of Trumps head and his wits to get down rather than freeze and look around saved him...

His Security Detail took forever to get him off stage and initially when he was back up he had a 5 ft something female ducking at his waist level, leaving his entire head and upper torso open to a follow up kill shot had there been another shooter...

One former Secret Service veteran said on a news feed that the bulk of what occurred (in regard to his details actions) would end up being a study in "how not to" conduct the securing of this type of venue...

I believe both Mayorkis and Cheatal hoped something like this would happen... The jokes on them however since Trump survived, showed guts and leadership while doing so, and probably solidified his grip on the election...

I dont have a problem with their actions once the shooting started. I thought they responded pretty well.

1. Shots fired.
2. Within 2-3 seconds, several agents tackle Trump and completely cover him up.
3. 3-5 seconds later you hear a woman shrieking. I’m assuming that’s someone near where the bystanders were hit, realizing the person next to her has been shot.
4. The agents on top of Trump must have heard that as well. At that point, they have no idea what’s happening. As far as they know, that woman is screaming because there are people rushing the stage.
5. 5-10 seconds pass. You hear Trump say “where are my shoes?” I’m guessing in that timespan they are ascertaining how badly Trump is injured and whether there are any other threats.
6. It is after that that they get Trump to his feet while completely covering him with their bodies and start trying to get him off the stage.

I don’t know anything about SS protocol but I imagine that response was pretty close to textbook.

The failure, and what needs to be investigated, is the sequence leading up to the shooting.

 

[76-1]

I dont have a problem with their actions once the shooting started. I thought they responded pretty well.

1. Shots fired.
2. Within 2-3 seconds, several agents tackle Trump and completely cover him up.
3. 3-5 seconds later you hear a woman shrieking. I’m assuming that’s someone near where the bystanders were hit, realizing the person next to her has been shot.
4. The agents on top of Trump must have heard that as well. At that point, they have no idea what’s happening. As far as they know, that woman is screaming because there are people rushing the stage.
5. 5-10 seconds pass. You hear Trump say “where are my shoes?” I’m guessing in that timespan they are ascertaining how badly Trump is injured and whether there are any other threats.
6. It is after that that they get Trump to his feet while completely covering him with their bodies and start trying to get him off the stage.

I don’t know anything about SS protocol but I imagine that response was pretty close to textbook.

The failure, and what needs to be investigated, is the sequence leading up to the shooting.

Not according to three different retired Secret Service Agents I watched interviewed on two different news feeds... One had finished his tenure as a response trainer...

 

[BadWakeboarder]

Based on the video of the shooter crawling, the ladder was probably on the other side away from the snipers. Get off the roof, and from the ladder fire shots into the ground. How is he the target? All the SS would know is the sound of gunshots and they would leap into action.

Yes. By shooting at the guy that was shooting his gun. On the battlefield it is difficult. Very difficult.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Not according to three different retired Secret Service Agents I watched interviewed on two different news feeds... One had finished his tenure as a response trainer...

I haven’t seen those interviews. What did they say about the response?

 

[orangecoast]

Yes. By shooting at the guy that was shooting his gun. On the battlefield it is difficult. Very difficult.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. He disengaged and left the roof. Fire shots from the ladder into the ground. Who is going to engage him? If he fired at the assassin, then yes I can see fog of war possibly taking him out. Basically if this part of the story is true I'm calling him a pussy for not having his weapon ready and engaging once on the roof. Why even go up if that's your response?

 

[T.M.P.]

Obviously, in real life we all "know" Trump was the target, but TMP was being pedantic, and I always appreciate pedantry. Especially epistemological pedantry.

I thought I made that fairly obvious by using the phrase very high probability.

but some people ... *eyeroll* ...

 

[dbmhoosier]

Watching Watters World. This doesn't add up at all. Local police say they were only handling traffic duty. Saw a man running with a rifle and a ladder half hour before the shooting but couldn't stop him. How? Didn't alert the SS apparently. Meanwhile SS say they were in charge of securing the building which they deny. Unbelievable.

 

[76-1]

I haven’t seen those interviews. What did they say about the response?

They all appeared uncomfortable and disappointed and clearly didn't like disparaging members of their own Lives On the Line fraternity but they all said the ball had clearly been dropped at several levels and the one guy who'd been a trainer said that this would end up being a case study in how Not to do it...

They spoke highly of the intial response to keep Trump down and then eviscerated the time it took to get him off the stage and into the vehicle..., and to a man said there was no excuse to leave that rooftop unguarded...

//I personally wondered why at least one of them wasn't seated directly behind Trump so they wouldn't have to have a guy run up 4 steps to jump on him (seconds matter), but that's my observation not theirs...//

It clearly pained all of them to speak badly of a Service they'd dedicated their lives to (literally)..,

None of them would throw Cheadle under the bus when given the opportunity.

They seemed extremely legit...

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Watching Watters World. This doesn't add up at all. Local police say they were only handling traffic duty. Saw a man running with a rifle and a ladder half hour before the shooting but couldn't stop him. How? Didn't alert the SS apparently. Meanwhile SS say they were in charge of securing the building which they deny. Unbelievable.

You can’t even bother to link the Twitter Twits spreading this misinformation?

 

[BadWakeboarder]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. He disengaged and left the roof. Fire shots from the ladder into the ground. Who is going to engage him? If he fired at the assassin, then yes I can see fog of war possibly taking him out. Basically if this part of the story is true I'm calling him a pussy for not having his weapon ready and engaging once on the roof. Why even go up if that's your response?

I’ll translate what you wrote above:

“I know nothing of real combat.”

I don’t mean that in an asshole way. I mean that in it’s nuanced and split second decisions save and take lives. If a cop shoots his gun and the SS only sees him shooting, it introduces massive confusion to a sniper that is viewing the battlefield from a micro perspective.

The failure was not screening better and not covering an elevated firing position well within rifle range. The cop climbing the ladder probably saved Trump’s life.

 

[ulrey]

Just imagine for one second, if this was Trump up for reelection running against Biden or Obama. He's behind in the polls and it looks like he'll probably lose. He then makes this same statement and days later some right wing nutjob takes a shot at the Dem nominee and almost kills him. What's the reaction from the left and the media?

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[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The cop climbing the ladder probably saved Trump’s life.

Since he's getting no love, worth highlighting you're probably right.

 

[Stuffshot]

I heard earlier that he actually stopped on the way to the event to buy 50 rounds of ammo for the rifle. If that's the case, doesn't say much about preparation of himself or the SS. On a lark, you decide to swing into a local big-mart or fun shop so you can drive an hour to shoot up a presidential candidate later that afternoon.

There is a new account today suggesting that the shooter had to wait somewhere for over an hour, because Trump was late in arriving. The writer was speculating where the shooter could have hidden for an hour waiting for Trump, without being detected by cops..

Is it true that Trump appeared more than one hour late for this event?

 

[hookyIU1990]

There is a new account today suggesting that the shooter had to wait somewhere for over an hour, because Trump was late in arriving. The writer was speculating where the shooter could have hidden for an hour waiting for Trump, without being detected by cops..

Is it true that Trump appeared more than one hour late for this event?

Not sure if this still holds or not, but early on there were reports he was marked as suspicious for hanging around the area near the metal detectors. Without the rifle, obviously.

 

[mattndallas]

Since he's getting no love, worth highlighting you're probably right.

Agree.

Cop poked his head up there, on a fuxking ladder to boot, probably thinking it's some dumbass kid he needs to yell at, and the kid turns and draws down. Cop bails momentarily to regroup, but now the kids discovered. Clock is now ticking faster. He's gotta pop quick because now he's got a cop on his ass.

Snipers are looking over there wondering what the commotion is. Likely saw muzzle flash, raised his head and WTF'd in panic, then smoked the kid.

Cop kinda unintentionally forced a rushed shot, but saved Trump's ass without knowing.

 

[mattndallas]

 

[ulrey]

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Karma is a bitch Linda…

 

[Stuffshot]

Leaving it to LEO doesn't bother me except it needed checked. There should be a checklist before the president comes to the podium. Is area 'X' secure? Is are 'Y' secure? That building should have been one of them. If a LEO was on that building and OK'd it, it should be fine.

I don't think it would be OK unless a LEO got on that roof and stayed there throughout Trump's entire appearance.

Only shortly before the shooting, witnesses told the cops a guy was up there crawling around but the cops apparently couldn't see him from ground level and didn't have a ladder. Thus there was delay before one cop lifted another high enough to look over the edge of the roof and saw the shooter.

The shooter apparently had climbed up there only a few minutes before the shooting, having prepared better than the cops by bringing a five foot ladder with him.

It's not realistic to expect cops to react quickly enough to prevent this shooting after the shooter is already up there and has a head start. The only way to prevent this is to station the cop up there in advance.

 

[Stuffshot]

That goes to why I think there should be a checklist. Someone at each threat point has to give an OK.

If you mean like NASA's "go/no go" system, I agree, except that someone has to remain at each threat point throughout Trump's entire appearance.

It does no good to inspect all the threat points hours before Trump's arrival, but then leave them unguarded so someone can sneak into them later.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

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There was nothing evil about the poor dude that died.

What she posted there was evil.

Also, this showed up on my facebook. I’m guessing this woman is going to feel some pain for that post.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

There was nothing evil about the poor dude that died.

What she posted there was evil.

Considering the shit some of your fellow righties have posted tonight, calling out a random Twitter liberal seems out of place. Maybe you want to comment on some of the folks right here on this very forum?

 

[Stuffshot]

That’s categorically false. If you’ve never fired a shot in anger you should sit this out.

Before that trigger pull I guarantee that Incel’s pulse rate was well over 150 and he knows that as soon as he squeezes he’s taking incoming. Plus he can be a shite shot. Hitting moving targets isn’t easy at any distance.

And, one account I read said the shooter pointed his gun at the cop who looked over the edge of the roof at him. Then, when the cop dropped back off the roof, the shooter turned back toward Trump and the shooting began.

If all that is true, it may be the case that the shooter had to hurry his shots, which would support what you are saying.

 

[Stuffshot]

The reporting is that the shooting started immediately after the officer retreated. So the question becomes, was the reason the officer went to there enough to evacuate Trump before he did?

A cop should have been occupying that roof (and similar other places) throughout Trump's entire appearance.

 

[Rockport Zebra]

There weren’t many places for assassins to hide. The fact that they weren’t all covered speaks volumes. Inside job.

An inside job wouldn't use a twenty-year-old rookie with a AR15. Stop it. An inside job would have exploded his head. at 150 yards. Glad you only have one vote. You seem to be easily misled by propaganda.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Considering the shit some of your fellow righties have posted tonight, calling out a random Twitter liberal seems out of place. Maybe you want to comment on some of the folks right here on this very forum?

I guess I missed those posts. Can you point them out?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I guess I missed those posts. Can you point them out?

Don't be dense. Just scroll up. Start with the post that RZ called out just above this.

 

[mattndallas]

Veteran Sniper: 'No Doubt' Thomas Matthew Crooks Had Help -- 'Most F**king Obvious Thing' Left Unguarded

A retired sniper said he has "no doubts" that Thomas Matthew Crooks had help from "an agency, an organization, or the government."

www.breitbart.com

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Don't be dense. Just scroll up. Start with the post that RZ called out just above this.

WTF are you talking about?

Having an opinion that it was an inside job is the same as being glad a Trump supporter was killed?

Are you drunk?

 

[Stuffshot]

Yeah goat completely ridiculous to think they would want that to happen.

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Don't get your hopes up.

Trump promised to "repeal and replace Obamacare" and fix the broken healthcare system but then didn't do shit about it for his entire four-year term.

He's just trolling for nutjob votes and will never release those documents he promised.

 

[BCCHoosier]

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Who cares what some idiot thinks. Do you have nothing better to do than repost crap?

 

[TR32]

A few impressions I have.

1. Apparently the guy had almost zero social media presence, which is very odd.
2. Rumors are that he was a registered republican who also happened to donate to the progressive voter turnout. The theory being that he registered as a republican to try and influence the republican ticket.
3. After seeing the rooftop where the guy was in relation to its proximity to the stage, it’s totally mind boggling that the guy was able to reach that spot with a long rifle. Seriously, it’s almost inconceivable. There should have been a secret service agent posted there, or it at the very LEAST, it should have been constantly monitored. Just insane to me that this dude was able to get to that spot.

Chances are he was an average angry 20 year old white kid with a high powered gun. Guess what would have helped? (hint: not allowing him access to the gun and ammo.)

 

[Stuffshot]

I dont have a problem with their actions once the shooting started. I thought they responded pretty well.

1. Shots fired.
2. Within 2-3 seconds, several agents tackle Trump and completely cover him up.
3. 3-5 seconds later you hear a woman shrieking. I’m assuming that’s someone near where the bystanders were hit, realizing the person next to her has been shot.
4. The agents on top of Trump must have heard that as well. At that point, they have no idea what’s happening. As far as they know, that woman is screaming because there are people rushing the stage.
5. 5-10 seconds pass. You hear Trump say “where are my shoes?” I’m guessing in that timespan they are ascertaining how badly Trump is injured and whether there are any other threats.
6. It is after that that they get Trump to his feet while completely covering him with their bodies and start trying to get him off the stage.

I don’t know anything about SS protocol but I imagine that response was pretty close to textbook.

The failure, and what needs to be investigated, is the sequence leading up to the shooting.

I thought they took a long time to get him off stage. Trump wasn't cooperating with them either.

On 9/11, the Secret Service physically picked up Dick Chaney and frogmarched him at high speed through the White House to the underground bunker. That's what they should have done to Trump. (Those two weigh about the same.)

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Chances are he was an average angry 20 year old white kid with a high powered gun. Guess what would have helped? (hint: not allowing him access to the gun and ammo.)

^^^^Here you go, goat. Call out this nonsense.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I thought they took a long time to get him off stage. Trump wasn't cooperating with them either.

On 9/11, the Secret Service physically picked up Dick Chaney and frogmarched him at high speed through the White House to the underground bunker. That's what they should have done to Trump. (Those two weigh about the same.)

How long it took them them to get Trump off the stage seems to be the thing most are pointing out as a potential failure on the part of the secret service.

And there may be some merit to that. I don’t know enough about the secret service to say one way or the other.

And you’re right, Trump wasn’t cooperating. At all.

 

[mattndallas]

Who cares what some idiot thinks. Do you have nothing better to do than repost crap?

No.

 

[mattndallas]

Reposted in case someone missed it...

Who cares what some idiot thinks. Do you have nothing better to do than repost crap?

 

[mattndallas]

This guy's an interesting follow...always compelling arguments about how the economy is great in his small town.

Who cares what some idiot thinks. Do you have nothing better to do than repost crap?

 

[DANC]

Monday mornings are my shit show. Nothing to do right now but shitpost as I'm currently waiting to get a passport picture taken, since I ****ed around and found out due to not paying attention.

We took a family trip to the DR last year and my daughter and son-in-law ****ed around and didn't get the kids their passports. Trip was in August and they still didn't have them on July 4. They went to some mountain post office where they could get an appointment and filled out the forms. They got them, miraculously, a few days before the trip after my son-in-law got his big-wig bosses where he works to pull some strings with the local state legislator.

He and my daughter are very smart, but both have to be reminded to breathe sometimes.

 

[DANC]

Who knows how much of the article below by Forbes is accurate, but some interesting tidbits I have excepted.

Classmate Jameson Murphy told the Post that Thomas Matthew Crooks wasn't able to make the Bethel Park High School rifle team after missing targets "by close to 20 feet" and described him as a "terrible shot."​

​

Another classmate, who was not named, added that the rifle team coach had concerns about Crooks, saying the former Naval man "knew when someone’s not the greatest person" and had noted Crooks' "crass jokes that weren’t appropriate when there are firearms in the school setting."​

​

The gunman was not on the FBI’s radar before this incident and special agent in charge Kevin Rojek told reporters “we have not identified an ideology associated with the subject.”​

​

The fact we have gone this long without a clear ideology (and yes, the article does contain a quote from a classmate that he was clearly a conservative but that doesn't necessarily mean much) suggests this isn't someone radicalized but another Hinckley. Maybe they'll eventually break the phone code and find a manifesto. But I doubt a radical would hide their manifesto.

Suspected Trump Shooter Remembered By Rifle Team Member As ‘Comically Bad Shot’: What We Know About Thomas Matthew Crooks

The former president was grazed by a bullet at his rally Saturday after a shooter opened fire, killing a bystander and wounding two others.

www.forbes.com

​

​

You can't miss a target by 20 feet. Methinks the kid is exaggerating. I really find it hard to believe he's that bad a shot, since he did hit Trump in the head - or grazed him. And supposedly he was in a rush, because a cop caught him up on the roof, so he was in a hurry to get off shots.

I think the kid just wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and be famous/infamous.

 

[DANC]

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Bunch of people are going to get themselves visits or contacts from the government.....

I doubt it.....