Ruth Bader Ginsburg tells it like it is

[mjvcaj]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ional-anthem-protests-dumb-and-disrespectful/

This has to hurt for lefties.

As a legal scholar, Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg supports the decision by San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and other athletes to protest racial injustice by refusing to stand for the national anthem. But personally? She doesn’t like it one bit.

“Would I arrest them for doing it? No,” Ginsburg said in a Yahoo interview with Katie Couric. “I think it’s dumb and disrespectful. I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning. I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.”

“If they want to be stupid, there’s no law that should be preventive. If they want to be arrogant, there’s no law that prevents them from that,” she said. “What I would do is strongly take issue with the point of view that they are expressing when they do that.”

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Why would it hurt? Everyone has a right to dislike certain expressions of free speech. I guess you wouldn't understand consistency like that. It's a liberal thing.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Why does it hurt? Everyone has the right to think whatever they want. It's when people say they should be fired, shouldn't be allowed to play, should be punished, that we run into a problem.

 

[Noodle]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ional-anthem-protests-dumb-and-disrespectful/

This has to hurt for lefties.

As a legal scholar, Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg supports the decision by San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and other athletes to protest racial injustice by refusing to stand for the national anthem. But personally? She doesn’t like it one bit.

“Would I arrest them for doing it? No,” Ginsburg said in a Yahoo interview with Katie Couric. “I think it’s dumb and disrespectful. I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning. I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.”

“If they want to be stupid, there’s no law that should be preventive. If they want to be arrogant, there’s no law that prevents them from that,” she said. “What I would do is strongly take issue with the point of view that they are expressing when they do that.”

I think that article slightly, but significantly, in-artfully describes what Justice Ginsburg said. She does not support Kaepernick's decision. Rather, she supports his right to do express his views in the manner he chose.

Also, no one is suggesting that Kaepernick should be arrested. While Justice Ginsburg is obviously a brilliant legal scholar, sometimes I think she sees the masses as being stupid (i.e., she tends to dumb things down too much).

 

[Noodle]

Why does it hurt? Everyone has the right to think whatever they want. It's when people say they should be fired, shouldn't be allowed to play, should be punished, that we run into a problem.

What problem? The NFL is a private business. If the 49'ers were to decide to cut Kaepernick because of his dumbass protest, do you think they should not be allowed to do so?

 

[Noodle]

Why would it hurt? Everyone has a right to dislike certain expressions of free speech. I guess you wouldn't understand consistency like that. It's a liberal thing.

Oh come on. Think instead of knee-jerk reacting.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Oh come on. Think instead of knee-jerk reacting.

I did think. And now I've thought again. It was still a dumb comment.

Why should RBG's comments hurt lefties at all? Makes no sense.

 

[zeke4ahs]

What problem? The NFL is a private business. If the 49'ers were to decide to cut Kaepernick because of his dumbass protest, do you think they should not be allowed to do so?

I suppose the law would say he could be fired, but no, I don't think they should be allowed to.

 

[Noodle]

I suppose the law would say he could be fired, but no, I don't think they should be allowed to.

Fair enough. But where do you draw the line? When should a private business be permitted to fire someone for their speech? Never? Even if they say something that 99.9% of people think is horribly offensive? For example, if an NFL player were to publicly espouse white supremacist views, should a team be allowed to cut him?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Changing topic here, mid thread. Goat, have you seen Kurt Eichenwald's story about the Russian government propaganda and Trump reading from it today?

 

[mjvcaj]

I think that article slightly, but significantly, in-artfully describes what Justice Ginsburg said. She does not support Kaepernick's decision. Rather, she supports his right to do express his views in the manner he chose.

Also, no one is suggesting that Kaepernick should be arrested. While Justice Ginsburg is obviously a brilliant legal scholar, sometimes I think she sees the masses as being stupid (i.e., she tends to dumb things down too much).

I think it was quite clear. His actions were perfectly legal, just "stupid".

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I suppose the law would say he could be fired, but no, I don't think they should be allowed to.

Why not?

Kaepernick is using his employer's uniform and stadium to amplify his protest. The employer has the right to regulate that sort of thing. If Kaepernick protested on his own time and away from his place of employment, I'd agree with you. In fact Colorado has a statute to protect an employee from being fired for legal off the job conduct.

 

[mjvcaj]

I suppose the law would say he could be fired, but no, I don't think they should be allowed to.

Why not?

 

[Noodle]

Would it be a dumbass protest if he kneeled to pray for Down Syndrome victims?

Yes.

But not as dumb as your post.

 

[mjvcaj]

Why not?

Kaepernick is using his employer's uniform and stadium to amplify his protest. The employer has the right to regulate that sort of thing. If Kaepernick protested on his own time and away from his place of employment, I'd agree with you. In fact Colorado has a statute to protect an employee from being fired for legal off the job conduct.

Even if the legal, private conduct of the individual negatively impact business?

 

[toastedbread]

Would it be a dumbass protest if he kneeled to pray for Down Syndrome victims?

I hate prayer about as much as I hate flags, and quite frankly I don't care if someone so much as shits on the flag. But you are seriously try to equate someone protesting in favour of a black nationalist power movement with someone praying for handicap people?

As to whether he can be fired. I think all terms in the contract should be honored.

 

[mjvcaj]

I did think. And now I've thought again. It was still a dumb comment.

Why should RBG's comments hurt lefties at all? Makes no sense.

Because it's one less lefty QB in the NFL.

#leftylivesmatter just ask Koufax and Mickelson

 

[mjvcaj]

I hate prayer about as much as I hate flags, and quite frankly I don't care if someone so much as shits on the flag. But you are seriously try to equate someone protesting in favour of a black nationalist power movement with someone praying for handicap people?

As to whether he can be fired. I think all terms in the contract should be honored.

I know he wouldn't have the balls to say that to Noodle is person, but I almost wish he had so that i could have witnessed the physical damage.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Even if the legal, private conduct of the individual negatively impact business?

Yes, there is an exception for that

That gets into hair splitting beyond the scope of the larger point.

 

[mjvcaj]

Yes, there is an exception for that

That gets into hair splitting beyond the scope of the larger point.

Does it? I was thinking that was an easy causation for the 9ers or NFL to use, sound they have chosen to.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I did think. And now I've thought again. It was still a dumb comment.

Why should RBG's comments hurt lefties at all? Makes no sense.

Well

The far left Senator Whitehouse wants to use RICO to prosecute speech of climate change skeptics. I suppose you disagree with him.

 

[toastedbread]

I know he wouldn't have the balls to say that to Noodle is person, but I almost wish he had so that i could have witnessed the physical damage.

I can't quite agree with you there

In principle I'm against all forms of violence except in case of self defense. Those words wouldn't classify as an imminent danger.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Because it's one less lefty QB in the NFL.

#leftylivesmatter just ask Koufax and Mickelson

Also dumb. Do you have a serious point to make, or was the purpose of this thread just to throw spitballs?

 

[mjvcaj]

Also dumb. Do you have a serious point to make, or was the purpose of this thread just to throw spitballs?

Playing dumb isn't a good fit for you Goat

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Well

The far left Senator Whitehouse wants to use RICO to prosecute speech of climate change skeptics. I suppose you disagree with him.

Well, that's not what he wants, but even if you were to accurately describe his position, yes, I'd still probably disagree with him. I think it's shitty that interested parties infect our policy-making process with lies for their own benefit, but I don't see RICO as an appropriate fix, most likely.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Playing dumb isn't a good fit for you Goat

Uh huh.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Does it? I was thinking that was an easy causation for the 9ers or NFL to use, sound they have chosen to.

The difference is

Kaepernick is on the job and within the scope of his employment as he protests. The 9er's have pretty much complete control in that circumstance.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think it's shitty that interested parties infect our policy-making process with lies for their own benefit,

Totally agree

But to deal with this 90% of lobbyists would be out of business, most candidates for public office would be gagged, and BLM wouldn't exist.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Totally agree

But to deal with this 90% of lobbyists would be out of business, most candidates for public office would be gagged, and BLM wouldn't exist.

Jesus Christ. Stop replying to me.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Jesus Christ. Stop replying to me.

Awww,

Pour yourself a cup of hot chocolate and relax.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ional-anthem-protests-dumb-and-disrespectful/

This has to hurt for lefties.

As a legal scholar, Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg supports the decision by San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and other athletes to protest racial injustice by refusing to stand for the national anthem. But personally? She doesn’t like it one bit.

“Would I arrest them for doing it? No,” Ginsburg said in a Yahoo interview with Katie Couric. “I think it’s dumb and disrespectful. I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning. I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.”

“If they want to be stupid, there’s no law that should be preventive. If they want to be arrogant, there’s no law that prevents them from that,” she said. “What I would do is strongly take issue with the point of view that they are expressing when they do that.”

Sounds to me like it hurts the type of people who use words like "lefty". Are you guys sensitive? Do people need to be more PC?

Thanks for reminding me of how much I didn't, and still don't, care about this story.

'Murikah!!!!!!!!!

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I still haven't figured out why we play the anthem before every sporting event. We don't play it before movies, plays, or concerts. I don't think large churches play it before worship. Why before a sporting event? And not just some sporting events, my kids' 6 year old girls volleyball league played it.

Kap has a right to kneel, that is good. I suspect the 49ers have a right to fire him (I have not read the union contract), that is good. Everyone has a right to do something here, we call that freedom.

People have a right to complain, good. Now Kap has been clear he is not protesting the military but the police. For some reason that distinction gets lost.

But I think his protest is wrong for one simple reason, this thread. All over America people are arguing about his actions, not about his cause. It seems to me to be failing in advancing the discussion he wants advanced.

Is this protest much different than the black power salute in 1968? At least we are not Australia. I was quite young then, but it did not bother me. This protest today does not bother me. In fact, is not the argument against him just the argument he is not being PC and standing?

 

[SSB]

Why not?

Kaepernick is using his employer's uniform and stadium to amplify his protest. The employer has the right to regulate that sort of thing. If Kaepernick protested on his own time and away from his place of employment, I'd agree with you. In fact Colorado has a statute to protect an employee from being fired for legal off the job conduct.

I agree with you, while "on the job" an employer can certainly dictate employee behavior. However I read that the 49ers do not require players to stand for the anthem. Assuming that is true I'm not sure how it plays into the discussion.

With that said all this angst is just more political correctness run amok.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Why does it hurt? Everyone has the right to think whatever they want. It's when people say they should be fired, shouldn't be allowed to play, should be punished, that we run into a problem.

I agree completely. Too bad liberals who praise Kapernick for his stand do not stand up for Steve Clevenger. I did not like his reference to human beings acting like animals. He could have said they were unlawful anarchists or something like that. But I did not agree with him being suspended,just as I would not want Kapernick suspended. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...t-charlotte-tweets-seattle-mariners/90908618/

 

[CO. Hoosier]

But I think his protest is wrong for one simple reason, this thread. All over America people are arguing about his actions, not about his cause. It seems to me to be failing in advancing the discussion he wants advanced.

Exactly right

You've noted why kaepernick is being a dumbass, not an intelligent commentator on social justice. Any idiot can kneel for the anthem. But it takes more than an idiot to explain a position on police excessive force.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I still haven't figured out why we play the anthem

Here is why I think we play it

A common culture is vital. Seems to me people like Kaepernick could use the flag to make his point--like the Selma marchers did. That would be preferable to seeing the flag as a symbol of oppression. Flags are important as the reaction to the the Confederate Battle Flag has demonstrated. If we can't use the flag and the anthem as a starting point for a common culture, what else is there? I'd like to think we can use our constitution and our beliefs in the bill of rights for a building block. But these days there is no agreement even on the basics such as freedom of expression or religion.

I'd show the flag and play the anthem more, not less.

 

[Noodle]

Here is why I think we play it

A common culture is vital. Seems to me people like Kaepernick could use the flag to make his point--like the Selma marchers did. That would be preferable to seeing the flag as a symbol of oppression. Flags are important as the reaction to the the Confederate Battle Flag has demonstrated. If we can't use the flag and the anthem as a starting point for a common culture, what else is there? I'd like to think we can use our constitution and our beliefs in the bill of rights for a building block. But these days there is no agreement even on the basics such as freedom of expression or religion.

I'd show the flag and play the anthem more, not less.

I believe it started during WWI. Story behind it is rather interesting, but apparently not interesting enough for me to remember it.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Here is why I think we play it

A common culture is vital. Seems to me people like Kaepernick could use the flag to make his point--like the Selma marchers did. That would be preferable to seeing the flag as a symbol of oppression. Flags are important as the reaction the the Confederate Battle Flag has demonstrated. If we can't use the flag and the anthem as a starting point for a common culture, what else is there? I'd like to think we can use our constitution and our beliefs in the bill of rights for a building block. But these days there is no agreement even on the basics such as freedom of expression or religion.

I'd show the flag and play the anthem more, not less.

I took a quick look, it was played a few times early in the 1900s in the 7th inning stretch, but it was WWII that made it the staple before a baseball game. The other sports picked it up from there.

I don't know that we should play it before every sporting event. But if we are determined to, let's switch to America the Beautiful. Almost no one can sing the Star Spangled Banner well. Most celebrities slow it down so it is a funeral dirge and I really hate that. Let's keep it moving, it should be rousing and not sad. But it should be America the Beautiful before that.

But overall I would prefer nothing. I'm just not into big public shows of any kind, "I am more patriotic/religious/liberal/conservative/compassionate than everyone else". I am sure there are quite a few people standing for the anthem who loathe this country for any number of reasons.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I believe it started during WWI. Story behind it is rather interesting, but apparently not interesting enough for me to remember it.

It was played in the 1918 World Series during the 7th inning stretch, it was II that started it before games. Source.

 

[Noodle]

I know he wouldn't have the balls to say that to Noodle is person, but I almost wish he had so that i could have witnessed the physical damage.

I did not take any offense with his comment. None whatsoever. The comment was just stupid (and rather bizarre as well).