Trump had a meeting on cyber security. If he was actually on time, which he rarely is, the meeting lasted 30 minutes. In which my guess is 29 of them were him bragging about his electoral victory, no collusion, and witch hunt . We can all rest easy.
Russian Hackers are already working on vulnerable Mid-Term Dems
- Thread starter DrHoops
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Vote tabulating computers are not on line. They can only be attacked by dishonest employees and election workers--which is not unheard of. Nobody has gone batshit crazy over that.
The fact of the matter is that government computers at all levels of government are attacked millions of times a day. The Russians are very active in fomenting political discord and divisions in this country and have been doing that for decades. The Russian objective is political strife and divisions. I don't think they give a crap about who is in office (notwithstanding Putin's nod to Trump in Helsinki. I think that was a Putin troll.) Russian bots and trolls have been known to populate Black Lives Matters sites, racist sites, Green anti-fracking sites, and of course various pro and anti candidate sites. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Russians are stirring up opposition and disarray about Kavanaugh's confirmation. Their efforts are so ubiquitous that one wonders if dark Russians don't pose as visible Russians for the sole purpose of creating more distrust and disunity among us by blaming the Russians. And they are succeeding in ways they never imagined.
What to do about this? I don't think there is enough electronic countermeasures to stem the tide. Russians have hacked the White House personnel files, many major credit card companies, and individual data from many sources. So have the Chinese, North Koreans, and others.
I think the real deterrent is the principle that the Cold War was based on--mutual assured destruction. Any crippling attack here will be met with a crippling attack of our own. As far as the non-crippling attacks are concerned, our best defense is a well-informed electorate and smart candidates. This is another problem for another thread.
I don't know what you mean by "Attacks on America". Computer systems are attacked constantly from so many sources we probably couldn't count them. America is always under attack. Stopping these attacks is like trying to stop the virus that causes the common cold. All we really can do is cope. In some obvious cases we can prosecute, but that is the very definition of a drop in the ocean.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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The amount of cognitive dissonance in this post is staggering for an intelligent person. Especially the part where you are self-justifying your vote for Trump by denying that Putin really wanted him to win. No amount of evidence would ever convince you that he did and you’d just fall back on some good ol’ fashioned CD to ignore it. C’mon man.
The bottom line is that cyberattacks, especially when designed to foment discord and degrade our way of lie, are acts of war and should be treated accordingly. Treating accordingly does not mean rattling NATO allies and cozying up to Vladimir Putin.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Cyber attacks on American businesses to steal credit cards are one thing. Attacks to steal voter rolls and to seek kompromat for use to manipulate elections are another. Those are attacks with political and national security endpoints in mind. Why do you think that is different from espionage?
Just because computers are not online does not mean they are not vulnerable. We now know some computers can be hacked via sound waves.
But if you want something less James Bondish, I will suggest everyone of those computers get software upgrades. Same for the voting machines. It may be from disc, it may be from thumb drive, but upgrades happen. Both to whatever OS the machine uses and to the program itself. That upgrade can be hacked.
I am not saying it has happened, I am saying people resting on the laurels of "it is impossible" will wake up to an entirely hacked system. For a country like Russia or China, or for an international drug cartel, or even for Anonymous, this is all VERY possible.
LOLOL. Isn't that the presser where Putin also said the Russian government did not interfere with the election? Did you believe that? When did you put the cloak of trustworthiness on Putin? The most dishonest and scheming leader on the world stage says he wanted Trump to win and you believe it. Ugh! The Russians love the idea that Trump is up to his gonads in domestic political problems. They like impeachment talk and the turmoil that brings. What is the the ONE THING that Putin could say to make sure our disfunction continues for months? C'mon man--you've been trolled!
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I didn't know that. Does it take line of sight? Can the soundwaves penetrate buildings? I'd like to read more about this. Do you have a link?
Acts of War? Really? Do you think Trump should implement Article 5 and ask our NATO allies to attack Russia? What do you think of the wealthiest NATO ally, and the one with the weakest military on a comparative basis, cozying up to Russia with the purchase of Russian NG? I think German cozying is much more of a problem than Trump's version of cozying.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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I have a problem with both cozying. No I don’t believe a kinetic war should be started...yet. But sanctions have to be further increased/augmented and they need to be put on notice that these acts are unacceptable. Between the cyber attacks and the poisonings in the U.K. we should seriously consider suspending diplomacy with Russia. Instead, we have a president that meets alone with a trained KGB agent and cozies up to him (and Erdogan for that matter).
Putin very much wanted Trump in office and very much did not want Hillary. He thought Hillary was responsible for the protests and had a long held grudge against her. Whether he wanted Trump because he knew he was a moron or because he had blackmail in him is still open for discussion, I suppose. But there’s no question he wanted Trump.
Voter registration is on line and that has been proven they got into. Why did they do that? It would be very easy to transform a number, remove some people from rosters, etc. There is much speculation that is what happened.
Wonder why there were watching parties in Russia with pictures of Trump and crowds chanting Trump during election night? Sure they didn’t want Trump. The exercises your mind goes through when you refuse to accept facts is well, very Trumpian like. Fake news!!
I’m not suggesting a kinetic war. Do you think Trump should use Article 5 to put economic pressure on Russia? Maybe ask the Germans to stop their NG purchases. What do you think we should do about paying Russia to ferry the world’s and our astronauts and scientsts to and from the ISS? While we are closer to our own heavy lift rocket capability, we still buy those rocket engines from Russia. My point is that your Russia preoccupation is a little naive. Europe, the US, and the world has ties to Russia that are not in our best interest to jeopardize. I understand the issues you raise. But the relationship is highly nuanced.
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Yes it is and they have. That is why voting security should be tightened. More interest groups than the Russians have messed with voter registration. The dems always oppose more voting security because they believe that some democratic voters are incapable of compliance.
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I have questions about that. No doubt Putin wanted to discredit Hillary. Everybody thought she was going to be the next POTUS. I don’t think Putin thought otherwise. He wanted her to be embroiled in controversy from day one.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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My preoccupation with Russia is not naive. I’ve had my passport stamped there several times in the last few years. The people I work with are great people but I’m not naive enough to think that they don’t drink the Putin kool-aid too.
We should not be aligned, nor should be Germany, on any national interests with a country that has rigged elections, is caught murdering others abroad, does not operate a fair and bad free press, annexes territories in neighboring nations, and attacks our Republic’s crown jewel: our election process.
I don’t care if we invoke Article 5 or not. I’m not seeking kinetic war yet. I’m seeking for the dipshit in Chief to stop cozying up to a murderous KGB agent and for otherwise smart guys like you to stop thinking that providing propaganda victories to a regime that controls the media is a big “nothingburger.”
I think "cyber attacks" attempted on our electoral system may threaten national security but certainly threaten state election law. Read the exact words of the US Constitution which deal with elections. I'm an originalist/textualist. The exact words of the Constitution as ratified mean what they then meant unless amended. Find those election bearing words and you'll see what the federal governments interest in elections is.
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Since you have no idea what I believe perhaps you'll read and learn or give up your ill fated career as a mind reader.
I believe about the federal government exactly what the words of the Constitution as amended from time to time meant to those who ratified it. Not one thing more nor one thing less. So, if you ever find your self compulsively driven to describe my ideas about government, take out your copy of the US Constitution with amendments and read them. Then at least you'll know - if you never understand.
What is interesting is to look at what he knew (BHO) when he made that speech directed at Trump about the Russians. Sure doesn’t seem he is being very honest but made an attempt influence the process by making Trump seem unfit..... interesting fella that guy was
Apparently it meant telling Putin to cut it out....very sternly. Fact is, it happened on Obama’s watch.
Dude, she won the popular vote by like 3 million votes. And I'm well aware of how our system works, I accept that Trump won, blah blah blah...but don't be stupid.The American people didn’t want her either so I guess we are all puppets.
If you know how it works then you know that is a crock...he didn’t even campaign in the most populous State. If it was number of votes he would have.... and would have won lots more votes there
Can't remember the extent of your Trumpian tendencies, so apologies in advance if needed. It's not really dependent on "national security," though that's certainly included in the federal government's duty.
The federal government has Constitutional responsibility to regulate interstate commerce and, according to the Constitution, “to regulate commerce with foreign nations." There can't be any doubt that the federal government has jurisdiction to "regulate" i.e. prohibit or criminalize Russian election fraud conducted through U.S. Mail, email, the internet, telephone and, for that matter, Telex, the Western Union telegraph and Pony Express if the ponies cross state lines (and probably if they eat oats that were transported across state lines as well).
The fact that the exact fraud conducted by these methods involves state elections instead of seeking to steal your personal credit card number or tricking you to send a prepaid debit card to The "Windows Support Center" in Asia or to an imaginary "Nigerian prince" to help him emigrate to America does not change the fact that the feds have jurisdiction over such fraud stuff.
The state governments probably have overlapping authority to enforce their own election laws but (at least prior to Trump's Presidential erection for Putin), I have always assumed that the feds are much better than the state governments at preventing Russian fraud that impacts elections.
Such cyber attacks are a threat to our national security without question. It doesn't matter to me if no one actually "changes" a vote because of such fraud. It's enough for me if it simply creates a false issue or other consideration that causes a voter to spend .00000001 of a millesecond thinking about the false issue created either by the Russians or by (ahem) certain Americans who create false issues every day.
It’s obvious to nearly everyone, including former Republicans and all other living Presidents how unfit Trump is. Have you noticed nearly everyone that doesn’t have anything to gain from Trump and is not running for office thinks he is unfit? That might be a sign.
How ironic. You, who can’t accept an election that’s was fairly won over a year and a half ago, speak of obsession and moving on??
Another overlooked fact - who told Mitt Romney when he said Russia was still a viable threat that “the eighties were calling and want their foreign policy back”? The 2016 Election took place firmly under the Obama Administration. So, IF the Russians hacked the Dems, then who’s to blame? The Russians and Chinese attempt to hack everything and anything hackable and have been since the word espionage has existed. Ever watch Bond movies? It’s nothing new, unlike the current thought among many. What was new was Obama and the Dems playing stupid with their security measures (See Hillary Clinton’s server) and national security.
Had to. It’s just too good!
Where you and I differ is Trump’s involvement in the hacking,along with the collusion narrative and the impact of any hacking on the outcome of the election. Hillary ran one of the worst campaigns ever, nearing Michael Dukakis, and let her pride get in the way - read the campaign staff’s notes.
One last one...can’t leave this one out since his name came up...
Haha! Classic!
Again, you show your lack of understanding of how our election process gathers the votes. It’s not possible to hack.
Goat will approve of the source for the video.
That video is propaganda. First, no need to hack 51 elections. One does not need to win every state. Second, there are only a handful of companies that make voting machines. Infect those machines at the source and you have done it. It has happened with computers, workers have injected viruses into brand new computers coming off the factory floor.
Here is a list of information about the type of voting systems used by states. Look at the number of states that say "without paper trail". Many jurisdictions have absolutely no way of confirming vote totals. Could you imagine running a retail business with no receipts?
Again, I do not think the system has been hacked, but it is incredibly possible. We know from the computer hacking conference Defcon that voting machines can be hacked, they did it in Vegas in 2017. Florida is the ultimate purple state and does not require a paper trail. Go into the largest precincts of the party one wishes to lose and either do not count every 10th vote, or flip them from that party. Do that in maybe a dozen precincts. The odds that party will win has gone down greatly.
good thing computer chips are all made here, and none come from China.
Good point. Years ago China made it illegal to run Microsoft products on government machines, they had no idea what code was in there. I am paid to support Microsoft products, I firmly believe much of the anti-microsoft rhetoric is just being hipster, it is cool to be different than the masses. But China was right, a government should not run a product that they cannot review the code to.
I am sure it does not. On the other hand, it would not surprise me that the NSA is involved in Microsoft products.
There's no question they've found vulnerabilities and exploit them. That doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. That may be due to my cool, hipster nature.
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