ADVERTISEMENT

Russia-Ukraine war has begun

Where is he getting them from?

All indications are now that the Russians absorbed the Ukrainian "offensive" and are now slowly rolling forward again. The Ukrainians won't win a meat grinder war, they don't have as much meat.

Their best bet now is to stabilize the lines and then go all "Palestinian" in the Russian occupied territories and Russia proper.
They have at least 10,000,000 males between 18 and 50 and even more women between those ages. Women aren't currently drafted, but they can volunteer and something like 60,000 have. Something like 700,000 Ukrainian men volunteered since Russia invaded. They're not at the insurgency stage by a long shot. They've proven they can go toe to toe with the Russians and perform better than they do. As the aircraft, tanks, missiles, drones, etc., etc. become available and winter ends I'd expect another chance for Ukraine to push Russia further back and inflict more serious defeats on them.
 
ybp7344hsz7c1.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC
Paywall. I could read the first part, so I got the gist.

How can Russian keep going at the rate of those kind of losses without the Russian public demanding it stop? I know they're used to suffering, but damn.

Can we even assume the average Russian is totally against the war? It seems that would be tough to ever gauge. Thoughts of western invaders moving east I’m sure still conjures powerful emotions even w/o the state propaganda.

 
Can we even assume the average Russian is totally against the war? It seems that would be tough to ever gauge. Thoughts of western invaders moving east I’m sure still conjures powerful emotions even w/o the state propaganda.

No, and I didn't mean to imply even a majority are against the war. I'm just saying those kind of losses have to affect every area of the country. So many families affected.

I've got to think they have to be asking themselves what it's all for. I mean, most can get on the internet. Do they really think Russia is threatened with invasion or that Ukraine is actually a Nazi regime?
 
Keep'um coming !

I'd be leery of anything about Russians posted by the Kyiv Post. I'm sure there are isolated incidents, just as there were US incidents in VN where troops flat out refused orders.

And wasn't Putin supposed to be dead by now?
 
  • Like
Reactions: manichi
No, and I didn't mean to imply even a majority are against the war. I'm just saying those kind of losses have to affect every area of the country. So many families affected.

I've got to think they have to be asking themselves what it's all for. I mean, most can get on the internet. Do they really think Russia is threatened with invasion or that Ukraine is actually a Nazi regime?
Isn't it believed that Putin has huge popularity in rural areas but not in the cities? I suspect that plays out here. Traditional Russian peasants are more accustomed to hardship, less access to internet and western influence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC
Isn't it believed that Putin has huge popularity in rural areas but not in the cities? I suspect that plays out here. Traditional Russian peasants are more accustomed to hardship, less access to internet and western influence.
Probably. But the political influence is in the cities.

Although I wouldn't underestimate the power of the internet. You can go into a very rural area in Africa and see cell phones that get internet access.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvin the Martian
Isn't it believed that Putin has huge popularity in rural areas but not in the cities? I suspect that plays out here. Traditional Russian peasants are more accustomed to hardship, less access to internet and western influence.
His approval rating has consistently been at 80% recently. I don't think only rural folks can sustain that kind of number.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvin the Martian
His approval rating has consistently been at 80% recently. I don't think only rural folks can sustain that kind of number.
Yeah, sure.

"Comrade, we are having poll. Do you support our beloved President's war against Nazis in Ukraine, or do you support the Nazis"

From the article linked above:
"
In all surveys, when answering a straightforward question, the majority of respondents support the war. Yet these responses should be treated with caution. The question “Can you freely talk about your attitude toward the actions of the country’s leadership, or are you afraid, feel uncomfortable?” when posed to the respondents of the Levada Center polls showed that among those who approve of Putin, 42 percent answered yes, while 7 percent chose the answer “afraid, feel uncomfortable.” At the same time, among those who do not approve of Putin, 18 percent said yes, while every third respondent (31 percent) chose the “I am afraid” option. In the Russian Field poll, among those who supported the “military operation,” one in six (16 percent) said they were afraid to participate in polls, while 43 percent of those who do not support the war were afraid to be polled.

It is clear that loyalists are more likely to agree to be surveyed than regime opponents. On the one hand, the data from the various independent polls are consistent and capture the dynamics of the respondents’ moods in similar ways. On the other hand, the distributions we see in the polls are highly likely to have a bias: loyal respondents are overrepresented and nonloyal respondents are underrepresented.
 
Yeah, sure.

"Comrade, we are having poll. Do you support our beloved President's war against Nazis in Ukraine, or do you support the Nazis"

From the article linked above:
"
In all surveys, when answering a straightforward question, the majority of respondents support the war. Yet these responses should be treated with caution. The question “Can you freely talk about your attitude toward the actions of the country’s leadership, or are you afraid, feel uncomfortable?” when posed to the respondents of the Levada Center polls showed that among those who approve of Putin, 42 percent answered yes, while 7 percent chose the answer “afraid, feel uncomfortable.” At the same time, among those who do not approve of Putin, 18 percent said yes, while every third respondent (31 percent) chose the “I am afraid” option. In the Russian Field poll, among those who supported the “military operation,” one in six (16 percent) said they were afraid to participate in polls, while 43 percent of those who do not support the war were afraid to be polled.

It is clear that loyalists are more likely to agree to be surveyed than regime opponents. On the one hand, the data from the various independent polls are consistent and capture the dynamics of the respondents’ moods in similar ways. On the other hand, the distributions we see in the polls are highly likely to have a bias: loyal respondents are overrepresented and nonloyal respondents are underrepresented.
Don't worry, he will get 95% of the vote.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DANC
Yeah, sure.

"Comrade, we are having poll. Do you support our beloved President's war against Nazis in Ukraine, or do you support the Nazis"

From the article linked above:
"
In all surveys, when answering a straightforward question, the majority of respondents support the war. Yet these responses should be treated with caution. The question “Can you freely talk about your attitude toward the actions of the country’s leadership, or are you afraid, feel uncomfortable?” when posed to the respondents of the Levada Center polls showed that among those who approve of Putin, 42 percent answered yes, while 7 percent chose the answer “afraid, feel uncomfortable.” At the same time, among those who do not approve of Putin, 18 percent said yes, while every third respondent (31 percent) chose the “I am afraid” option. In the Russian Field poll, among those who supported the “military operation,” one in six (16 percent) said they were afraid to participate in polls, while 43 percent of those who do not support the war were afraid to be polled.

It is clear that loyalists are more likely to agree to be surveyed than regime opponents. On the one hand, the data from the various independent polls are consistent and capture the dynamics of the respondents’ moods in similar ways. On the other hand, the distributions we see in the polls are highly likely to have a bias: loyal respondents are overrepresented and nonloyal respondents are underrepresented.
I'm sure all of that is true. But everyone seems to agree that the Levada Center polls are (fairly) trustworthy, and even accounting for said biases, Putin still probably enjoys pretty broad support.

Even before Ukraine, he was consistently in the 60s.
 
I'm sure all of that is true. But everyone seems to agree that the Levada Center polls are (fairly) trustworthy, and even accounting for said biases, Putin still probably enjoys pretty broad support.

Even before Ukraine, he was consistently in the 60s.
Not to get into a pissing contest about it, but put yourself in the place of the average Russian. Can you be certain that your answer won't be recorded for some future reference? If you record a vote against Putin's policies, can you be certain you won't be 'detained' or 'disappeared'?

I know you know this, but life in a totalitarian state is completely different than what we're used to. We used to be able to tell the President to go F himself if we didn't like his policies, and do it publicly. That's at least a social shunning in a place like Russian, and certainly in China. The Gulags are still fresh in minds of middle aged people.

I just don't trust any public polls out of Russia either before, or after, Ukraine. However, I do think it's quite possible a majority at least support the war in Ukraine, for now. But I also think that support has eroded when the body count started going way up.
 
If you look at the map on Google earth…Feodosia is the base in Crimea farthest from Ukraine. Crimea is not a safe place for the Russian navy. The Russian navy has largely evacuated Sevastopol
Russians are having trouble just holding onto Donbas.

Wouldn't it be something if the Ukrainians pulled an Inchon-type end-around and attacked from the south?
 
Not salvageable.
Well technically, with some good luck and progress, One day Ukrainians will melt pieces to form new items that provide posterity and advancement, otherwise I totally agree. If the orcs want a new floaty thing, it's easier to start from scratch because this one is TOAST.
Another thought, if they measure how their great Navy has performed against a country with NO ships in their Navel equipment..... Maybe they should stick to building washing machines and claw tooth bath tubs.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DANC
Well technically, with some good luck and progress, One day Ukrainians will melt pieces to form new items that provide posterity and advancement, otherwise I totally agree. If the orcs want a new floaty thing, it's easier to start from scratch because this one is TOAST.
Another thought, if they measure how their great Navy has performed against a country with NO ships in their Navel equipment..... Maybe they should stick to building washing machines and claw tooth bath tubs.
Sorry, it's Naval, not navel. Navels get lint in them . . .
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrBing
Sorry, it's Naval, not navel. Navels get lint in them . . .
So that pushed your belly button alert....(this is a navel joke, explanation for mark and goat and shitter) ...... but you can't use this opp to bash the roosian navy?

ex. Russia doesn't have a Naval Fleet, they've a got navel piercing.
SEE !! .... (You can use that around your buddies if you want. Bing will roll ! ) :)
 
If Russia's main problem is Ukraine joining NATO, then negotiate that. I don't see the need for Ukraine in NATO when it's clear they can defend themselves with Western help anyway.

I don't know when the F16s will go online, but that could be a game changer.
 

Sadly, this is reality. Ukraine can’t push Russia all the way out and Russia can’t push Ukraine all the way in. A settlement is inevitable. I don’t think Ukraine will have the political freedom it enjoyed after the fall of USSR but it will be better than a puppet government.
 
Sadly, this is reality. Ukraine can’t push Russia all the way out and Russia can’t push Ukraine all the way in. A settlement is inevitable. I don’t think Ukraine will have the political freedom it enjoyed after the fall of USSR but it will be better than a puppet government.
What it is is another example of where the US intervenes for admirable reasons and then gets bored when instant victory isn't achieved and eventually pulls out and leave our allies in the lurch.
 
What it is is another example of where the US intervenes for admirable reasons and then gets bored when instant victory isn't achieved and eventually pulls out and leave our allies in the lurch.

I don't think it is a matter of boredom. I think it is expense measured against results.
 
What it is is another example of where the US intervenes for admirable reasons and then gets bored when instant victory isn't achieved and eventually pulls out and leave our allies in the lurch.

Lots of them but they were all going to be Forever Wars. As much as I want Ukriane to win, I don’t blame people for not wanting to be a part of those anymore.
 
I don't think it is a matter of boredom. I think it is expense measured against results.
Disagree. I think the public gets tired of hearing about it and that shows up in polls.

I think there is zero cost/benefit analysis done by politicians.

This is the history and pattern of the US getting involved in foreign wars. It's only when the public demands unconditional victory that we fight to win.

There wasn't much cost/benefit clause in this quote:

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aloha Hoosier
Disagree. I think the public gets tired of hearing about it and that shows up in polls.

I think there is zero cost/benefit analysis done by politicians.

This is the history and pattern of the US getting involved in foreign wars. It's only when the public demands unconditional victory that we fight to win.

There wasn't much cost/benefit clause in this quote:

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

Eh, your premise presupposes countries like Vietnam and Afghanistan being cozy little western-leaning allies if only we had finished the job.

You could say we finished the job, at enormous expense, in Iraq and still don’t have anything close to what we wanted.

Folks have wisened up.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT