Roy Moore done fo(u)r?

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Why? I don't think it's ridiculous. Just because voters may look past illegality -- not to mention moral turpitude of some of the worst kind -- doesn't bind the Senate or House from doing so.

The 17th Amendment enshrined the concept of popular election of Senators in the Constitution. Sure, the Senate probably has the right to expel him for whatever reasons they desire*, but if those reasons are things that the voters were already aware of, they would ultimately simply be overturning an election because they disagree with what the voters chose. It doesn't violate the text of the 17th, but it certainly violates the spirit of it.

It would be different, obviously, if he were elected, and then all this stuff came out after the fact. Then the Senate could rest on the argument that the voters were essentially defrauded. But as it stands now, any argument they have for expelling him essentially boils down to "We know better than the voters do." That's pretty bad politics.

*I only say "probably" to account for insane hypotheticals in which the Senate doesn't act in good faith. For example, if a supermajority ever expelled all opposition for the express purpose of creating a one-party chamber, I have no doubt the courts would find some way to say that violates the Constitution. Obviously, the insane hypotheticals I'm thinking of are things that would never happen in real life.

 

[Lucy01]

You’re supporting a pedophile whose own troops wanted to kill him in Vietnam, and yet “LEFTISTS!!!” are the problem?

Also, you should seriously shut up about pulling if you don’t understand what a margin of error is.

At least he knows the difference between pulling, that something you do with tractors! Polling is taking samples to get a idea how people vote
You stayed at the soccer game to long.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

The 17th Amendment enshrined the concept of popular election of Senators in the Constitution. Sure, the Senate probably has the right to expel him for whatever reasons they desire*, but if those reasons are things that the voters were already aware of, they would ultimately simply be overturning an election because they disagree with what the voters chose. It doesn't violate the text of the 17th, but it certainly violates the spirit of it.

It would be different, obviously, if he were elected, and then all this stuff came out after the fact. Then the Senate could rest on the argument that the voters were essentially defrauded. But as it stands now, any argument they have for expelling him essentially boils down to "We know better than the voters do." That's pretty bad politics.

*I only say "probably" to account for insane hypotheticals in which the Senate doesn't act in good faith. For example, if a supermajority ever expelled all opposition for the express purpose of creating a one-party chamber, I have no doubt the courts would find some way to say that violates the Constitution. Obviously, the insane hypotheticals I'm thinking of are things that would never happen in real life.

It might be bad politics for the Senate to expel him, I don't disagree with you there. I think it would be pouring fuel on a fire that's already burning beyond their control.

But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be the right thing for them to do -- it would be.

 

[twenty02]

Emerson College actually is using an experimental method with some sort of survey panel. Fox is using landline + cell phones.

It's all going to depend on who turns out. Pretty much all the pollsters are detecting high enthusiasm on the Dem side. Special election electorates are very hard to predict.

If you read the 538 article I linked above in this thread it explains all that and how if you weigh the poll differently you get anything from Moore being up high single digits to Jones being up high single digits. None of those are outlandish weights either.

I generally agree with the CW that Moore is probably a 70/30 favorite, but Jones definitely has a chance.

This reminds me a ton of the Scott Brown special election for Kennedy's seat in MA.

Ladoga doesn't read.

There was interesting stuff in that 538 piece. Mainly that most of the polls are automated and are banned from calling cell phones. I'm 36, and have never had a land line in my adult lifetime.

In the Fox poll (live human poll), Jones had a 30 pt lead with cell phone responses.

I'd counter that with saying I'm sure many eventual Moore voters were too embarrassed to say they were voting for him to a live person - but maybe saying you would vote for a Democrat is more embarrassing than voting for a pedo?

 

[dbmhoosier]

Well, I'm not saying that I'm confident in how the election will turn out. I doubt he'll win -- but who knows. But, given the nature of the allegations, if he wins I don't think there's any way the Senate Republicans will be able to abide his being there...and I suspect that motions to remove him (or even block him from being seated) would begin pretty quickly.

Why? Teddy Kennedy did far worse to women than anything Moore has been accused of and remained in office for decades. Every Lib on this board would've lined up to vote for him they had lived in Massachusetts while he was in office and they know it.

 

[RBB89]

Why? Teddy Kennedy did far worse to women than anything Moore has been accused of and remained in office for decades. Every Lib on this board would've lined up to vote for him they had lived in Massachusetts while he was in office and they know it.

So your defense of Roy Moore, a pedophile and a guy who has been removed from the bench TWICE, is that all those damn liberals might have voted for Ted Kennedy 40 years ago? Are you high? Are you so obsessively attached to the Republican Party that you can't just say "you know, Roy Moore isn't a very good guy." Is that so difficult? Franken is out of a job, as he should be. Weinstein is out of a job, as he should be. Moore needs to be out of a job. Trump needs to be out of a job.

 

[Lucy01]

So your defense of Roy Moore, a pedophile and a guy who has been removed from the bench TWICE, is that all those damn liberals might have voted for Ted Kennedy 40 years ago? Are you high? Are you so obsessively attached to the Republican Party that you can't just say "you know, Roy Moore isn't a very good guy." Is that so difficult? Franken is out of a job, as he should be. Weinstein is out of a job, as he should be. Moore needs to be out of a job. Trump needs to be out of a job.

Could you explain why he was removed from the bench?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

So your defense of Roy Moore, a pedophile and a guy who has been removed from the bench TWICE, is that all those damn liberals might have voted for Ted Kennedy 40 years ago? Are you high? Are you so obsessively attached to the Republican Party that you can't just say "you know, Roy Moore isn't a very good guy." Is that so difficult? Franken is out of a job, as he should be. Weinstein is out of a job, as he should be. Moore needs to be out of a job. Trump needs to be out of a job.

Well, I'm not going to defend Moore.

But (a) Ted Kennedy won elections until the day he died in 2009...it wasn't just 40 years ago, and (b) I still think this newfound intolerance for sexual misconduct by Democrats is entirely situational. If Clinton happened all over again, the reaction of most Democrats would be just as it was then...and if Hillary had won, we wouldn't be talking about this and Al Franken wouldn't be lining up his next gig.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be the right thing for them to do -- it would be.

So? I thought you were convinced that didn't matter. It's all about the politics, remember?

 

[meridian]

Well, I'm not going to defend Moore.

But you are!

 

[Fro]

Well, I'm not going to defend Moore.

But (a) Ted Kennedy won elections until the day he died in 2009...it wasn't just 40 years ago, and (b) I still think this newfound intolerance for sexual misconduct by Democrats is entirely situational. If Clinton happened all over again, the reaction of most Democrats would be just as it was then...and if Hillary had won, we wouldn't be talking about this and Al Franken wouldn't be lining up his next gig.

The culture's different. Clinton wouldn't have won the primary in 92 had all that stuff happened now.

 

[RBB89]

The culture's different. Clinton wouldn't have won the primary in 92 had all that stuff happened now.

Exactly. And for about the 5000th time, disliking Donald Trump doesn’t automatically mean that you’re a big Bill Clinton fan.

 

[meridian]

Could you explain why he was removed from the bench?

Very elementary, my dear!
Google "Ray Moore," or better yet, try wikipedia.org.

 

[Cortez88]

Exactly. And for about the 5000th time, disliking Donald Trump doesn’t automatically mean that you’re a big Bill Clinton fan.

You mean a reasonable, fair minded human being could find the acts of both men reprehensible? Even if they are from different political parties? Huh.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Well, I'm not going to defend Moore.

But (a) Ted Kennedy won elections until the day he died in 2009...it wasn't just 40 years ago, and (b) I still think this newfound intolerance for sexual misconduct by Democrats is entirely situational. If Clinton happened all over again, the reaction of most Democrats would be just as it was then...and if Hillary had won, we wouldn't be talking about this and Al Franken wouldn't be lining up his next gig.

You're still beating that hypothetical dead horse? Time will tell.

Women got to smoke, still do.
Women got to vote, still do.
Women got to play in sports, still do.
Women got jobs, still do.
Women got respect, still going to want it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

But you are!

When have I ever defended Roy Moore...even slightly?

 

[Rockfish1]

Roy Moore Doesn't Even Ride A Horse Well

A looser rein is to be expected with a Western style of ride but a little less slack—see how far wide he has to swing his hands to navigate the assembled press?—would give the dishonorable judge the increased control this particular situation demands. Beyond that, his failure to steady himself using his seat (sorry to draw your attention there) or even the stirrups, cause him to rely on the reins to stay upright every time Sassy lunges forward. In the simplest terms: Pressure on the reins communicates to a horse that she should slow down or stop while pressure from the rider’s legs communicates that the horse should go or speed up. So while Moore is trying to ride away from the polling place, he’s also jerking his horse in the mouth, giving the animal conflicting signals and acting like a real asshole.

 

[Bill4411]

Roy Moore Doesn't Even Ride A Horse Well

A looser rein is to be expected with a Western style of ride but a little less slack—see how far wide he has to swing his hands to navigate the assembled press?—would give the dishonorable judge the increased control this particular situation demands. Beyond that, his failure to steady himself using his seat (sorry to draw your attention there) or even the stirrups, cause him to rely on the reins to stay upright every time Sassy lunges forward. In the simplest terms: Pressure on the reins communicates to a horse that she should slow down or stop while pressure from the rider’s legs communicates that the horse should go or speed up. So while Moore is trying to ride away from the polling place, he’s also jerking his horse in the mouth, giving the animal conflicting signals and acting like a real asshole.

This is what happens to your skills when you always are hanging around the pony and merry-go-rides at the county fair....

 

[meridian]

Ladoga doesn't read.

I'd counter that with saying I'm sure many eventual Moore voters were too embarrassed to say they were voting for him to a live person - but maybe saying you would vote for a Democrat is more embarrassing than voting for a pedo?

You make a very good point.

 

[wiede]

This is what happens to your skills when you always are hanging around the pony and merry-go-rides at the county fair....

Can I double like this one? Well done.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

This is what happens to your skills when you always are hanging around the pony and merry-go-rides at the county fair....

Cowboy hat? Check
On a horse? Check

There better be a Bible in the saddle bag or the Real Alabama Man costume isn’t complete.

 

[Thyrsis]

Cowboy hat? Check
On a horse? Check

There better be a Bible in the saddle bag or the Real Alabama Man costume isn’t complete.

And as all Alabamans and Republicans know, it's absolutely GOTTA be a Bible.

 

[Circlejoe]

And as all Alabamans and Republicans know, it's absolutely GOTTA be a Bible.

View embedded media

We’re f_cked.

 

[RBB89]

And as all Alabamans and Republicans know, it's absolutely GOTTA be a Bible.

View embedded media

Holy crap we are so screwed.

 

[UncleMark]

Roy Moore Doesn't Even Ride A Horse Well

A looser rein is to be expected with a Western style of ride but a little less slack—see how far wide he has to swing his hands to navigate the assembled press?—would give the dishonorable judge the increased control this particular situation demands. Beyond that, his failure to steady himself using his seat (sorry to draw your attention there) or even the stirrups, cause him to rely on the reins to stay upright every time Sassy lunges forward. In the simplest terms: Pressure on the reins communicates to a horse that she should slow down or stop while pressure from the rider’s legs communicates that the horse should go or speed up. So while Moore is trying to ride away from the polling place, he’s also jerking his horse in the mouth, giving the animal conflicting signals and acting like a real asshole.

Trust me when I tell you I know what I'm talking about on this...

A proper (or just basically competent) western rider does not use two hands on the reins. Western pleasure horses "neck rein" -- you hold the reins in one hand and move your hand in the direction you want to go. The horse is trained to move away from the pressure of the rein on his neck. Two handed reining is used in English saddle riding, jumping, racing etc. Or pony rides.

This comes from western riders needing to have a free hand for a rope or branding iron or to hold a newborn calf or whatever work is being done.

 

[Fro]

 

[iuwclurker1]

The losing streak is over, folks. A new day has dawned. This time, no more complacency.

 

[twenty02]

Roy Moore trying to lockdown his reservation in the nut house.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...ences-if-jones-is-certified-as-alabama-winner