Rick Gates testifies against Manafort

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Would love to see inside the heads of the jurors to see how strongly this landed.

http://thehill.com/regulation/court...-committed-crimes-while-working-with-manafort

 

[Lucy01]

Where’s Trumps involvement?

 

[Bill4411]

Manafort needs a Cook County jury otherwise I think he’s toast. The interesting part will be what happens when he sees life imprisonment staring him in the face. Trump can pardon him and then on to the next trial or Manafort can agree to cooperate with Mueller but either way Paul’s life is at a dead end.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Manafort needs a Cook County jury otherwise I think he’s toast. The interesting part will be what happens when he sees life imprisonment staring him in the face. Trump can pardon him and then on to the next trial or Manafort can agree to cooperate with Mueller but either way Paul’s life is at a dead end.

Trump can only pardon the federal income tax evasion. I’ll assume Manafort wasn’t honest on his state tax returns either.

 

[UncleMark]

Trump can pardon him and then on to the next trial or Manafort can agree to cooperate with Mueller but either way Paul’s life is at a dead end.

After a pardon, he could then be required to testify and couldn't plead the 5th. And he'd still be liable for perjury or contempt if he lied or refused to testify. Of course, Trump could always pardon him for those crimes...

I have to believe Mueller has enough evidence for charges under state law, and Trump can't help him there.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

After a pardon, he could then be required to testify and couldn't plead the 5th. And he'd still be liable for perjury or contempt if he lied or refused to testify. Of course, Trump could always pardon him for those crimes...

I have to believe Mueller has enough evidence for charges under state law, and Trump can't help him there.

Two technical points, only one of which is interesting:

First, Mueller doesn't handle any state charges. Although he likely has an idea of which types of laws generally states like Florida and New York might charge his witnesses with violating, he's not competent to be a part of that, beyond some sort of cooperation agreement with state authorities.

Second, and more interesting, while Trump's power to pardon is virtually unlimited, that only extends to the point that any pardons he issues would be valid. It doesn't necessarily mean that the act of issuing the pardon is necessarily licit. So, if Trump pardons Manafort for lying to protect Trump from criminal prosecution, the act of issuing that pardon could itself very well be a crime.

 

[UncleMark]

First, Mueller doesn't handle any state charges. Although he likely has an idea of which types of laws generally states like Florida and New York might charge his witnesses with violating, he's not competent to be a part of that, beyond some sort of cooperation agreement with state authorities.

I get that. I didn't mean that Mueller would bring state charges, only that he would have enough evidence he could pass on to state authorities for them to use.

 

[UncleMark]

So, if Trump pardons Manafort for lying to protect Trump from criminal prosecution, the act of issuing that pardon could itself very well be a crime.

Which, while interesting, doesn't mean much unless and until he was out of office (by whatever circumstance).

 

[UncleMark]

The judge sure does seem to inject himself into things a lot more than what I've ever seen reported. Any of you real life shysters have any insights?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ellis-engage-in-10-minute-courtroom-spat.html

 

[Noodle]

So, if Trump pardons Manafort for lying to protect Trump from criminal prosecution, the act of issuing that pardon could itself very well be a crime.

No way.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

No way.

Why not? If a President accepted a $1M personal payment in order to issue a pardon, that would still be bribery, right? So if he issued a pardon in order to interfere with an investigation into his own wrongdoing, could that not be obstruction?

 

[Noodle]

Why not? If a President accepted a $1M personal payment in order to issue a pardon, that would still be bribery, right? So if he issued a pardon in order to interfere with an investigation into his own wrongdoing, could that not be obstruction?

No, because the mere possibility of a criminal charge would impermissibly limit the President’s power to pardon. Now, accepting a bribe would itself be criminal. But not the act of pardoning in exchange for the bribe.
Also, no court would ever allow an inquiry into why a pardon was granted.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

No, because the mere possibility of a criminal charge would impermissibly limit the President’s power to pardon. Now, accepting a bribe would itself be criminal. But not the act of pardoning in exchange for the bribe.
Also, no court would ever allow an inquiry into why a pardon was granted.

Good point. That was a very sloppy analogy on my part. I plead Bacardi.

 

[Noodle]

Good point. That was a very sloppy analogy on my part. I plead Bacardi.

Bacardi? Nothing else left in the fridge or bar?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Bacardi? Nothing else left in the fridge or bar?

Oakheart is a lot cheaper than Captain, and I honestly think it's just as good, especially if you are going to ruin it by dumping a bunch of Pepsi into it.