Random musings on living and dying....

[DougS]

I've had several friends pass away in the last 2 or 3 years: George, another George, Miriam, Garrett....

None of them died quickly. I know 3 of them had cancer. I think all of them had cancer.

My dad died of cancer. Mom died from COPD complications......

I plan to live into my 70's.... maybe 80 or so. Then I plan to stop living.....

It's not that I plan to die - I just don't plan to live much past 80.... don't want to.... don't need to.... If I haven't done it by the time I'm 80 it isn't going to get done.

I'll be 60 soon....

My friends and family who passed away did not just stop living - they died slowly, over a matter of months or years.... their bodies gradually stopped working, one piece at a time.

I have 2 aunts still living. One is 82. The other is 95. The 82 year old Aunt is waiting to die. The 95 year old Aunt is still living and will probably live to be 100, barring some calamity. She doesn't really want to, but she probably will, and she will live during those years, not wait to die.

My 82 year old Aunt's husband is senile, doesn't know who she is, and lives 1000 miles away in a nursing home near his son because they could not afford the ones near Los Angeles. She hasn't seen him in over a year, since he left, and will never see her husband again. She can't afford to travel there, and can't physically make the trip even if she could afford it, so she lives on her patio with her cats.

My otherwise healthy Aunt-once-removed fell a couple of weeks ago and hit her head. Never regained conciousness and died the next day. She lived right up until she died.

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I don't think we plan to end up waiting to die. If you're like me you plan to live a full life and then, one day, like Aunt Lottie, you will simply stop living.

From what I've seen it doesn't usually work out that way.

What does all that have to do with Thanksgiving? I am so grateful to have been able to spend the holiday with all my siblings and their children and our grandchildren, excepting one nephew who has a girlfriend and opted to have T-Day with her. My niece asked "Who gave him the idea that this gathering is optional?"

I plan to get out there and live! To live until I stop! I don't want regrets when I'm done!

I hope everyone had an enjoyable Holiday and, as we enter the Christmas season, may all your lives be full.



This post was edited on 11/30 3:02 PM by DougS

 

[hootch1]

One of my

wife's relatives at our Thanksgiving dinner just turned 90. She drove herself to and from the dinner but made sure she was home before dark. I spoke with her quite a bit Thursday. She's still lucid and funny.

I watched my father battle inoperable cancer. He had survived two previous bouts with cancer that were caught early. He really had no chance this time around, but he was certain he could beat it again. Sitting here, I would have skipped the second round of chemo since the first was useless. The chemo just impacted his quality of life and not the cancer. I don't know how I would decide if it happens to me, but I would reflect back on his experience.

I never expected to make it past 40. I had a tendency to take risks.
With two younger kids, I have cut down on the risks and hope to live to
see grandkids.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Deep thoughts on a Sunday afternoon

I've been thinking some of the same type of things, having recently lost some friends, from a variety of illnesses and accidents. It's amazing to me how some people stop living at a fairly early age, while others still do so well into their 80's and even 90's. Just like some of my friends now seem really "old" to me, while others still have the same enthusiasm and energy they did when they were young. It's part of the reason I've always enjoyed being around younger people, and had friends much younger than I. It's also one of the reasons I thought I'd love my new job....I'm a firm believer in being around young people keeps you young yourself. As for the dying part, I know that my biggest concern is that I don't want to be a burden on the rest of my family. I remember having to spend holidays visiting my great grandmother in a nursing home when she didn't even know us. I understand why we did, but I hated having to do it. I don't want my family to have to do the same. I want to live to be 100, but only if I'm reasonably healthy and of sound mind. I have big plans to create havoc in my assisted living home!

 

[CO. Hoosier]

About 40 years ago

I was on a chairlift with a gentleman from Indianapolis. I knew he was much older than I, I asked him how old he was and he said 80. More than twice my age at that time. I was amazed and said I hoped I could still be skiing and active when I was 80. He gave me simple advice that I'll never forget. "Don't ever stop".

Well, now I am in my 72nd trip around the sun and I don't intend to stop--skiing or anything else. One of my best friends whom I skied with for more than 40 years, and who is a few years older than me, had to take last year off to rehab his shoulder rebuild. He can't wait to hit the slopes this year.

With all due respect, Doug, I simply don't understand those who say "they will stop living" at such and such an age. You may think you have done it all by then, but there is something that you haven't done; skied what passes as the next great powder day for you; or caught the next fish, or read the next good book; or seen the next smiles from your grandkids.

Here's to a long and happy life.










This post was edited on 11/30 4:10 PM by CO. Hoosier

 

[DougS]

Re: "I will stop living"

When I say that I don't mean that I will start waiting to die at that age. That is simply as far as my vision of my life extends. I hope to live every day to the fullest, but I also don't want to linger long over death.

 

[NPT]

To me it's

all about the quality of life. If I can't enjoy anything then I want to die. However, I know a guy that's in his upper 80s that still gets out and does a lot of volunteer stuff.

 

[NPT]

You must have

been kind of wild if you didn't think you'd make it past 40.

What kind of risk did you take?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Good. I thought maybe you were channeling

Ezekiel Emanuel. I think you'll push that age out further and further as you approach it.

Nobody wants to linger over death. Hard to say how any of us will react to that circumstance. For me knowing about a time certain would be the hard part.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I'd like to die in the pulpit like a pastor did down in Florida. That's the

way to go,doing what you love. I'm with you about lingering. I'd like to die of a quick heart attack.But I don't get to choose. Eccl 3 says there is a time to be born and a time to die. These times are in the mind of God. Right now we are praying for a little girl who is having a hard time right now. She could die,but we are praying for her to have a long life. It's what a want for my kids and grandkids.

 

[hootch1]

First off

I'm not that big and I'm too stubborn to back down on some items. I walked the streets of DC in my teen years when it was one of the most violent cities in the US. Same for Kingston, Jamaica. The organization that I worked with moved their office out of Kingston the next year due to the violence. That's not to mention crossing guarded pot fields to get to film trees planted to halt erosion.

Just generally things that are not recommended because I am stubborn.

 

[Hoops Cat]

Seems to me you're dancing around the 800 lb elephant in the room...

Self-euthanasia, self deliverance, suicide, whatever you want to call it, but in essence, removing yourself from the game of life.

This slope is slippery, yet it is.

I've told my kids forever that when I become a burden to the tribe, I'll remove myself to an iceflow, and slowly drift away and be a burden to no one. Kind of a joke, because I'm not a member of a tribe, and while I live near Lake Michigan, it seldom freezes solidly enough to effect my plan (I blame the Republicans for global warming!).

But the larger point is that, as others have expressed, I don't want to be a burden on my children or spouse. I'm healthy now, but tomorrow, next year, five years?

I'm thinking that there will be a growing number of people who will elect to "opt out" in the next twenty years.

What are your thoughts on this? I'm not a frequent poster here, but I lurk enough to know you to be a religious man (or maybe a man of faith, if that's more apropos?) Is this a cardinal sin? Or, a pragmatic way to manage the end of sentient being?

 

[DougS]

Truthfully, that wasn't in my mind

What I was trying to say was that as I envision my life journey I don't tend to think about it having a long debilitating end, even though I see it happen to friends and family over and over again.

As to euthanasia, while I can understand why some would want it but, from my current perspective, I can't support it.

 

[NPT]

You know

we all do stupid things when we were kids. When my daughter was growing up and she'd do something stupid I would think back and think of some of the stupid things I had done. It's only by God's grace that I got to be an adult with two good eyes and no broken bones.

 

[Sope Creek]

Average time in long-term skilled nursing care . . .

is about 22 months, according to the elder care "superlawyer" that I consulted regarding GrannySope (who is still going strong, living alone at 90+). 90%+ of those costs are covered by Medicaid, BTW. If you want to know why medical care costs are so high, it's end of life care that's causing a good bit of that rise.

I'm with HoopsCat . . . as soon as I see consistent signs of mental or physical decline that will impose a burden on others, I'm going on a deep woods fishing trip in Canada . . . in winter.

 

[kingmanite]

I will be 78 in a couple of months. I know my time on this earth is limited. I find that I can't do a lot of things that were routine a few years ago. I would like to go on the golf course. I don't want to become a burden to others. I know I will be placed beside my wife. I have had a good life. Just my thoughts.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Can I choose to do that on a warm beach?

Don't like the cold, so I'll float out from Maui.

 

[DougS]

I assume

... You will be naked as well..... Not that I will try to visualize that?

 

[davegolf]

Re: Average time in long-term skilled nursing care . . .


I just visited my Dad for the last time (I think) he is almost 103 the week before Thanksgiving. Very cold in Indiana. When I first got there he stated he had waited on my visit and that when I left it was time to go. He fell about 8 weeks ago and broke his hand and could no longer walk. He is in a wheel chair and very tired and trouble communicating. He wants to go and requested we stop his meds except those necessary to keep him comfortable. He cried a lot and I wished there was something I could do. The whole nursing home scene is sad and heart breaking. I totally expect him to FALL shortly and that will be the end as he could not accept being bedfast. I inherited the fight in him to keep going but as Doug said I certainly don't want to live that long!

 

[hoot1]

Also have a spouse to consider

I want to stay around in reasonably good health in order to help my spouse in her later years. What I would least like to have happen is for me to be a burden for her.

Once she passes, I have no idea how I will adjust. My guess is that I'll do pretty well, but it will be a big adjustment.

In the meantime, I just live a day at a time and am thankful for being here in better health than I deserve.

 

[iubud]

Thankful of my parents

I am 50 years old and still have both of my parents. My parents are 73 and very active. My mom survived breast cancer and volunteers almost every day at their church. Dad plays golf, is in several fantasy football and baseball leagues, does odd jobs around their church, and drives cars for dealer swaps when they call him. They go on trips with friends and dad is a member of the Red Cross disaster team and worked Katrina and volunteered at the tornado damage in Southern Indiana a few years ago.

They ran down yesterday to shop and dropped off some canned tomatoes my mom had made after Thanksgiving.

I realize how lucky I am to have my parents. My wife had lost both of her parents before she was 40. Most of my friends have lost at least one parent or have a parent that is in bad health. I heard my dad tell my cousin that he is living stress-free. He doesn't have a lot of money, but he has enough. He isn't worried about a job, paying for college, a mortgage, bills, or anything else. If he has worries, it is about his kids and grandchildren.

I realized we all work hard our entire lives to be like my parents. They do what they want, when they want. I hope they get to continue to enjoy themselves together for many more years. I hope to be just like them. Dad is finding there are things he can't do anymore. He gets dizzy on ladders and has trouble pushing a lawnmower. He sticks strictly to the riding mower and mom trims with the other mower. I love to help when I can. We trimmed trees this summer. I hope to help him work on his restored 63 Impala next summer. The Impala was my grandma's car. She drove it well into her late 80's without power steering.

 

[SSB]

I think Zeke had it right.

Take away the political ties, read what he actually wrote without allowing those ties to influence your interpretation and he makes perfect sense. Once we hit 75 (if we hit 75) things begin to change for most of us. I belong to a country club and while there are a lot of golfers in the 65-70 range, and a fair number in the 70-75 range, the number over 75 drops off enormously.

But there are other things we can do right? The problem is "active" eventually means you can still drive yourself to church and back home, but that is about it. Eventually it will mean you can use your walker to get to and from meals in the assisted living facility. All on your own.

Choose your own age, Zeke chose 75, but there is probably an age when we (if we so choose) could all stop pursuing longevity.

Many people know that exceptional person that is beating all the odds and if we think we have a shot of being that person in our old age then go for it. But I'll look at my grandparents and parents, their age when they died, their quality of life in their final years and choose an age as Zeke did. Colonoscopies, PSA tests, stress tests will all be history at that point and chocolate cake and eggs Benedict will most assuredly be bake on the menu.

 

[DougS]

Of course, this discussion requires that I post this link

From "The Naked Gun"

Enjoy.

That's no way for a man to die

 

[Sope Creek]

Are you CRAZY???!!???

I might FREEZE to death . . . or catch my death of COLD . . . .

Sheesh . . . .

 

[hoot1]

LOL, Wouldn't want Detective Drebin...

...on my Death Panel.

 

[davegolf]

Thanks Doug


The timing of this post was perfect for me and gave me thought. Hospice is visiting Dad today to decide on a go forward plan. He fell a couple of time and is now on oxygen and I just he hope he has no pain and passes in peace.

 

[DougS]

That's what Hospice is for

Pain management. I hope your dad does not suffer. My wife is an expert in this field, so I hear all the stories.