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Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by Columbus-Boiler, Mar 10, 2020.
I wonder what those things out of his control comment is all about?
I'm calling "bullshit" on this one:
“To be honest with you, he is not leaving Indiana because he wasn’t going to be the starter,” Doug Ramsey said. “Peyton met with (coach) Tom Allen right before Christmas and was told he’d start. He’s not running away. He went into the portal because there were some things he didn’t have control over, some things I won’t get into.
“It was the right time for him to see what was out there.”
Peyton left the IU program on great terms and as a highly respected Hoosier. Now his father tarnishes things by making cryptic comments and creating a mystery, no doubt in an effort to boost his son's image (which didn't need boosting). Doug should have kept his mouth shut and just let things play out. Incredibly foolish move.
Sure, Peyton met with Allen right before Christmas and was told he'd start, alright - - the Tennessee game.
You took the words right out of my mouth. What a bunch of horseshit.
Wanted to go to Northwestern all along? yea ok. he would still be at IU if Penix didn't pass him up.
My respect for the Ramsey’s
Just got lowered still wish Peyton the best.
I am with you, Doug has done several things I don't appreciate. I wish Peyton the best and wish his dad wouldn't tarnish his reputation by making comments that are ridiculous.
I have to tell you, I sat down with my son after the abysmal bowl game in SF and I told him this was a defensive minded coach and that there were several things that concerned me. I asked him if he wanted to graduate and get out. I gave him the option. He refused and got benched for the newest shiny toy. So I am sure Ramsey looked at the same situation and was not going to take the risk.
Richard loved the school and his team mates so he stayed. The loyalty was not returned by Allen and now we pay the price. And once this type noise starts, it is hard to convince kids the coaches are loyal. Not saying they aren’t, but perception wins out over truth everyday.
I say this with all respect because I think Richard had a ton of talent and I especially had a blast watching him in the home opener against OSU and going toe-to-toe with them.
But Richard didn't get replaced by a shiny new toy or next big thing. PR just played better. Probably had a lot to do with the conservative DeBord offense that didn't take advantage of Richard's cannon the way it could have. So maybe you're on to something with the defensive minded coach part. But with the DeBoer hire and what they're building on offense, I don't think it's sensible to act like IU wouldn't have made full use of Peyton's skills in trying to score points in 2020 if he were named the starter (which wasn't necessarily likely and I'm certain wasn't promised to PR).
So the coach is the bad guy because the "new shiny toy" may be more fun to play with? This is an ongoing cycle with recruiting and his job is to always look the next toy that can win games. I loved Richard's game and thought he was a great QB and Ramsey was a rock for IU, but it's about winning and playing the guys who give you the best chance to win.
Why do you and others pushing this narrative have to go there? Highly doubt Allen wasn't (or isn't) loyal to players. Penix is possible NFL level talent and was showing how good he was last year before being injured (at his then 203 lbs). Peyton did an awesome job. Allen couldn't have been more positive of him and appreciated all that he did for IU. Season is over. Peyton controls his own destiny and has chosen to play his final year at Northwestern.
He's a legend and beloved at IU. He is getting a chance to start for sure and play where he may not have at IU. Seems to be a win/win. Why not leave it at that?
Agreed. It's not Peyton's fault that his father spoke to the media and made a dickhead comment.
I've been reading your comments for a long time, and I've held my tongue and never responded - - until now.
Tom Allen is being paid a boatload of money to win football games. Allen, like every coach, may not always make the right personnel decisions, but P5 head coaches are always going to go with the guys who they think give them the best shot at a W. It's not about loyalty - - it's about winning. I'm sorry your son didn't pan out at IU, but it seems like it's high time that you got over it and stop taking veiled (and not so veiled) shots at IU's head coach.
And if an 8-5 record at IU is "paying a price," sign me up, as a fan, for some more of that.
A little less revisionist history and a little more history:
When Peyton Ramsey made his first appearance it was in the second quarter of the Virginia game Richard Lagow was off to a slow start. He was three for 10 with a fumble and an interception. His quarterback rating was 6.2. Ramsey came off the bench and completed 16 of 20 passes and Indiana won the game. After the game Coach Tom Allen said that Richard Lagow was still his starting quarterback and that he kept Ramsey in the game because he had the hot hand. Ramsey play in few more games but got hurt and his season was over. Whereas Lagow had a much bigger arm it was not all that accurate. His passes tended to sail and defensive backs just had to sit back and play centerfield. Part of Lagow’s inaccuracy was due to the fact that if you were a quarterback at Indiana you had to play on the run and Richard was slow. I’m sure he would’ve been a lot more successful if he could’ve sat in the pocket but that wasn’t the case. Ramsey was much quicker and could escapepressure but he did not have a big arm. That’s just what the reality was. There was no favoritism.
So it's more important for a coach to stick with a QB until he graduates even if a younger QB gives the team a better chance to win?
Not only would that get a coach fired, it would be a disservice to the rest of the team that is there to win.
We used to have a coach that valued seniority more than talent. He isn't coaching at IU anymore
Richard was replaced after a terrible start at VA and Ramsey performed well when in the game. Richard just threw too many INTs and Ramsey didn't. Ramsey lost out because of the talent Penix had and DeBoer adjusted the offense for Ramsey to do well. Penix can make throws Ramsey can't and avoids rushes and complete passes Ramsey bailed out on the OL pocket instead of sidestepping the way Penix does. Penix reads defenses faster and gets the ball out of his hands faster which is the reason Ramsey got hit so often.
I appreciate your son’s contribution to the Hoosier football program. I’m no evaluator of college quarterbacks, but your son handled a very difficult situation during his senior year with selflessness and class. In that situation, he was much more than a college quarterback; your son was a great teammate and, more importantly, a fine young man!
Pay the price? Penix is better than PR. And I really like PR.
TAs job is the win, play by the rules and graduate players. He can and should be loyal to players and part of that loyalty includes being honest about PT prospects. RL and PR are both great kids that were beaten out by better players that gave the team a better chance of winning.
I was just about to post the same thing.
Allen started Penix over Ramsey even after Penix had been out for an injury and Peyton was playing well. I don't believe Allen told him he was the starter. I think he might have told him there would be competition for #1, but that's about as far as I can see Allen going.
Dad was making comments before Peyton ever entered the portal. Maybe Ramsey (and Dad) didn't like Sheridan or think he would be a good OC. Who knows? But I sure don't believe he's leaving even though Allen supposedly told him he was the starter.
Did you really mean that Penix is better than PR when Penix isn't injured, which he was several times?
So the Tribune thinks Ramsey always should have been at Northwestern?
You mean Fitz went with the ratings instead of making his own judgement? Evidently Wilson is a better judge of QB talent than Fitzgerald.
Ramsey can comment any time on his decision - he's not bound to silence like the coaching staff, which is what the article implies. And Peyton hasnt said squat. Only Dad, who evidently has an axe to grind against Allen.
This pisses me off. All of IU Nation wishes Peyton well and then Dad has to be a jerk about it. It doesn't sour my feelings about Peyton, but why the need to do that?
Remember when we had a coach who tried to put the interests of a player ahead of the interests of the team? I do. It didn't work.
I would have loved for coach DeBoer to have been the QB/OC when Richard was QB. In all likelyhood he would have read the defense better and the offense would have been more suited to his game.
Coaches only owe the team to play the players that give them the best shot of winning games. Their job is not to play the oldest players and we see that even at the top programs in the country. Coach Allen didn't run the offense when coach DeBord was here or since. Thinking coach Allen was the reason Richard was benched is not accurate or because he is a defensive coach.
Coaches have the job and the duty to play the guy they think will give the team the best chance to win. Criticism of that decision comes with the job. The proof is in the pudding.
If it was my call, I’d start Ramsey, and bring Penix off the bench to stress a team in the second quarter.
Second half snaps go to the guy who does best.
Lagow - as the others - deserved better overall line play.
The last guy we had who could overcome line play was Lewis.
Maybe DeBoer liked Ramsey but Penix is Sheridan’s Guy?
Wish he hadn’t said it.
Wish Ramsey was staying.
I never get what I wish.
If DeBoer liked Ramsey better, he would have started him.
My opinion - which is just my opinion - is that Allen wanted to keep everyone happy last year and went with Penix for the future, thinking Ramsey would be back-up and, if anyone left, he would rather it be Ramsey. I don't think he knew how well Ramsey would play, but he made the decision and he was stuck with it.
Without an assurance that his performance would earn him at least the starting role in Spring practice or even Fall, Ramsey said screw it. Dad got pissed off. I'm not so sure Sheridan being named OC didn't contribute to his decision. Maybe the same with Cronk - who knows. But the timing of these portal announcements lead me to that conclusion. If I'm not mistaken, Ramsey announced right after DeBoer left and Cronk made his announcement when Sheridan was named OC.
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for making us think.
I really liked & appreciated RL and absolutely loved PR and what he brought to the QB position last year and really wish he was still here, but wish him the very best - with that said, it was a little disappointing to hear PR & RL’s Dad’s comments - as any other coach on here can attest - every parent thinks their kid is better than they actually are - it’s just the way it is - as another poster stated, coaches want/have to win and right or wrong, they are are going to play the guys/gals that they believe will give them the best chance to win.
I, too, really liked RL and I wish things had gone better for him on the field. He seems like a great young man.
But in '16, long before Deboard came along, what happened vs Wake Forest? 5 Ints, including a pick 6 in an unexpected home loss. At home vs Nebraska? 2 picks that put IU in a big hole, eventually losing a close one. At lowly Rutgers? 3 picks, a first half deficit and a way too close win.
While TA and Deboard rightfully chose ball security in '17, Wilson seemingly gave RL a bit too much leash in '16. JMHO.
On the one hand I think most of you are right, the player hasn't said anything and this sounds like sour grapes from the dad. On the other hand though, I'm guessing the Dad got this opinion and facts from the kid and isn't just making them up?
Maybe the coach told him "you will enter spring camp as the starter and game 1 starter will be the kid who plays better throughout the offseason"
I would think quality of opponent would factor in too:
Penix: BSU, EIU, NW, MD, Rutgers, MSU
Ramsey: Tenn, OSU, PSU, Mich, Purdue, UConn
Hard to know for sure or trust too much of what's said when it's coming from a dad, even if he's a respected HS coach. PR was a great kid, leader and very good qb for IU. I wish he had stayed, but wish him nothing but the best.
But, it was clear that MP, if healthy, would be the choice. PR made the decision easy for TA by grad transferring.
Did anyone else notice in PR's tweet that he went out of his way to thank his teammates but not his coaches?
I personally enjoyed watching RL play. As mentioned, the offensive line really strunk that year. I still believe that we would have won at MSU in 2017 if he had played.
Ramsey came to play for Wilson. Maybe he just never clicked with the new staff - it happens.
If you put in the performance Ramsey did last year and wasn't told you are the clear leader for starter next year, you'd be pretty bitter, too. I know I would be.
Water under the bridge now. I will be pulling for Ramsey (not necessarily Northwestern). I'd like to see Ramsey have a good enough year to get a seriouse look from some NFL teams.
PR was the perfect backup. He wasn't going to lose you many games but wasn't going to win you many big games. His performance last year was consistent with this and not with beating Penix out as the starter at IU. PR would likely start at half of the BIG programs but not over Penix.
If Penix lights it up this year and we beat one of the big boys, will those on this string (& any of the father’s) finally day “okay, I get it, this kid is talented.” It’s so dumb to say “Allen treated him poorly” that it’s hardly even worth discussing. No one is guaranteed anything like playing time. But Allen could not have been more effusive of Ramsey last season.
mom going to not let this change my views of PR at all. Wish him well, hope NU season goes great, and he made a good decision for him. IU moves forward too and I am all in behind IU staff and Penix.
I wish Ramsey the best, but the comment above was unnecessary. If your going to spew vague details spit them out otherwise don't say it. The only thing Peyton did not have control over was Penix lightning arm and quick decision making.
I'm also confident in saying with Ballou and Rhea working on Peytons arm strength...it could not have been in any better hands than theirs and at this point you probably couldn't squeeze another ounce out of it. That said we will see how all that translates at Northwestern. They have a new OC Bajakian from Boston College. Ground and pound is his M.O. so that may fit his style better. Peyton is still going to have to earn it but an OC with his resume will recognize strengths and weaknesses quickly if you get my drift. A deep threat he isn't. Teams will load that box like they did against us which limited our offense. jus sayin.
Richard would've been a star in Kalen's offense, not so much in Mike's offense. I think it's fair to assume that Kalen would've tapped into Richard's potential in a manner that Mike Debord never could. Just my opinion.
Richard was one of the toughest IU quarterbacks I've witnessed. He took some big shots here. His interceptions are what hurt the most and I feel like under Kalen Deboer's tutelage, he would've conquered those issues.