often heard that culture is best described as that which is rewarded. That said, trying to figure out what the culture of IU’s program is, what does Archie reward? Steve Risley said in interview with Stu that IU’s biggest problem is the culture of the program.
Question on culture of IU basketball team...
- Thread starter bdhman
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The fan base is bitter and angry. The players have no idea that IU used to be good every game and they don't expect to win.
The culture is one of repair. Trying to heal and build, but there is still an underlying infection, and it is an overbearing level of expectation relative to the personnel that are there. These guys, including the coaches, have no idea how to win 75% of their games and remain a highly ranked team all season.
So, they are hoping that recruiting top tier local players who understand basketball will help them get there, before the fan base bails again.
It's tough. I see this as a must-win situation with Archie. If he fails I think IU is just done and buried as far as being a basketball power.
I wanted Gregg Marshall, but they didn't even offer him, and I have been patient with Miller, considering he is noticeably better than Crean. IU needs him to succeed. We sure as heck don't need him to get fired and then, what? Hire Alford, Fife, Lewis?
The culture is one of repair. Trying to heal and build, but there is still an underlying infection, and it is an overbearing level of expectation relative to the personnel that are there. These guys, including the coaches, have no idea how to win 75% of their games and remain a highly ranked team all season.
So, they are hoping that recruiting top tier local players who understand basketball will help them get there, before the fan base bails again.
It's tough. I see this as a must-win situation with Archie. If he fails I think IU is just done and buried as far as being a basketball power.
I wanted Gregg Marshall, but they didn't even offer him, and I have been patient with Miller, considering he is noticeably better than Crean. IU needs him to succeed. We sure as heck don't need him to get fired and then, what? Hire Alford, Fife, Lewis?
There is a lot more accountability than there was previously.
Drugs, DWI, fake IDs, alcohol with minor teammates, running teammates while under the influence, not sticking to the allotted scholarship number, throwing productive players off the team who still had eligibility, allowing NBA prospects to take a break during the season.... good Lord.
Drugs, DWI, fake IDs, alcohol with minor teammates, running teammates while under the influence, not sticking to the allotted scholarship number, throwing productive players off the team who still had eligibility, allowing NBA prospects to take a break during the season.... good Lord.
The fan base is very angry cause we have one of the top five most passionate loyal fan bases in america. Yet for 20 years our results are average at best. It is beyond frusturating when you see the other teams with titles win year after year. Its hard to keep asking for patience after 20 years of it
But at this point we have no choice. We may never be elite again. I except that now.
I said when they hired archie if he failed thats it for iu as ever being relevant again. You can only try and do this so many times. This is it folks.
May as well cancel the rest of the season and then disband the basketball team since they're just going to suck forever and have no chance of being good ever again. What's the point of playing the games if they might not win?
They should probably just fire the entire athletic department, including all the coaches from other sports.
Seriously, this board is full of drama queens.
Do you know that for sure? I’d say it’s entirely possible they put out feelers on Marshall...and just didn’t get a positive response. But very few people know who was and wasn’t contacted.
Formally not offered. I agree with what you said.
Digressing.... Miller needs more time regardless of what anyone thinks of the current slide.
Cancel the season?
Now you’re on to something!
Watching IU try to compete in the Big Ten in sports is like getting a root canal without the Novocaine.
Does it take failure in both football and basketball to see what a few of us are tired of watching over the last couple decades? How long does anybody need as an AD to get either sport respectable around here? Are we really the new Northwestern of the 80's? Nobody seems to care but the few of us who want what IU once was.
We likely wont be elite again. Im started to realize that so keeping archie i guess is,what we will do. Changing coaches never changes a thing.
But didn't Marshall have some baggage, highly publicized in Indianapolis about a week before Miller's hiring was announced?
https://www.foxsports.com/college-b...-of-arena-following-wichita-state-loss-031917
Well, it’s very rare for a candidate to be formally offered a head coaching job without the answer being a foregone conclusion. So it’s meaningless that IU didn’t formally offer Marshall (or Donovan, etal). It’s not the same thing as saying we expressed no interest in him.
And of course Archie will get (and should get) more time despite this team’s regression. It’s absurd to say he should be fired already. But I also think he needs to be made aware that the results 1.5 years in are thus far below our expectations and unacceptable.
To use the “Hoosiers” cliche, right now Fred Glass should be like old Cletus telling Norman Dale that “I’m tryin’ hard to believe you know what you’re doin’”
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This board is unbelievably hilarious today. Not only is the season lost....not only is archie a failure. Now there are posters saying this is it for iu basketball. I'm frustrated and disappointed too, but my God, get ahold of yourselves!
yes, we have become nebraska football
p.s. i don't think anyone should hit the like button for this post
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just a minor correction: holt was not under the influence and did not "run over" devin davis. holt was the designated driver, and davis thought it would be funny to jump over the hood of holt's moving car. holt was not responsible and likely never saw davis coming
It usually takes turnover to repair culture. Each new person gets the culture and vision from the leadership and sets a foundation for each person that comes afterward. Through attrition, the leader instills culture incrementally, until the majority of remaining people are bought in and sharing in the vision.
Very few companies or programs can change culture successfully with training, accountability and mere words. Millions of dollars are spent each year by companies investing in improving culture. It takes a leader who understands it takes time, is grounded in principles and remains steadfast in their pursuit. They must be able to sell their ideas, show results and earn credibility over time. Soon, the members of a team employ self accountability and require less coaching. Until, you can implement a long term plan for change, your culture is not going nowhere.
I've taken over departments and even companies with bad habits, low morale and poor culture. Coaching them up only gets you mediocre results and leads to frustration on both sides due to underlying philosophical differences.
Set expectations, hold people accountable and let time run its course. Eventually, you will surround yourself with those who believe.
What we have at IU is an undisciplined culture over the last 12-15 years. Arch seems like a guy who gets it. I've seen more discipline in the last year and half than in the previous 10 years. The disappointment and frustration he shows for our current state is a good sign. (Think about the Duke post game presser from last year) The media, fans etc all congratulated him for a hard fought close loss against the number one team. He was appalled at the notion and was having none of it and shut it down.
Now it just takes time and attrition so he can surround himself with others who buy what he is selling. Until then, we will have mixed results. Withholding judgment until at least midway through year 3 is not only fair, it's the responsible thing to do.
Very few companies or programs can change culture successfully with training, accountability and mere words. Millions of dollars are spent each year by companies investing in improving culture. It takes a leader who understands it takes time, is grounded in principles and remains steadfast in their pursuit. They must be able to sell their ideas, show results and earn credibility over time. Soon, the members of a team employ self accountability and require less coaching. Until, you can implement a long term plan for change, your culture is not going nowhere.
I've taken over departments and even companies with bad habits, low morale and poor culture. Coaching them up only gets you mediocre results and leads to frustration on both sides due to underlying philosophical differences.
Set expectations, hold people accountable and let time run its course. Eventually, you will surround yourself with those who believe.
What we have at IU is an undisciplined culture over the last 12-15 years. Arch seems like a guy who gets it. I've seen more discipline in the last year and half than in the previous 10 years. The disappointment and frustration he shows for our current state is a good sign. (Think about the Duke post game presser from last year) The media, fans etc all congratulated him for a hard fought close loss against the number one team. He was appalled at the notion and was having none of it and shut it down.
Now it just takes time and attrition so he can surround himself with others who buy what he is selling. Until then, we will have mixed results. Withholding judgment until at least midway through year 3 is not only fair, it's the responsible thing to do.
It would be one thing if we had fallen off and weren’t advancing deep into the tourney, but this program is at the point where even making the NIT is no certainty. How bad do people at IU have to be at there jobs to allow this to happen? And why do they keep their jobs?
IU either has no clue how or doesn’t want to do what it takes to compete in athletics at a major collegiate level. Either scenario is unacceptable.
To say there is NO accountability is a gross misstatement, especially when you say there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY ANYWHERE.
Step #1 - bring back The Mop Lady
The culture isn't JUST yelling at players and sitting them on the bench when they play poorly but, rather, putting the focus on Indiana University and its traditions. I've not been to a game in decades but what I gather from posts is pre-game is filled with loud music and flashy lights and videos of players - the exact things a 60+ yo old fan cares least about. I'm not arguing the merits of music and videos but there is a time and place for those. Is that old fashioned? Yes, but kids, fans and players alike, can live two hours without the world being catered to them. Nobody remembers the 'hip' music played during intros and pre-game but everyone will remember a beautifully sung IU fight song.
Step #2 - put an emphasis on past players
If we want to focus on players in videos then show videos all-time greats making great plays. The culture of Indiana University basketball includes its past players and its past traditions not just 'what's happening now'.
The culture isn't JUST yelling at players and sitting them on the bench when they play poorly but, rather, putting the focus on Indiana University and its traditions. I've not been to a game in decades but what I gather from posts is pre-game is filled with loud music and flashy lights and videos of players - the exact things a 60+ yo old fan cares least about. I'm not arguing the merits of music and videos but there is a time and place for those. Is that old fashioned? Yes, but kids, fans and players alike, can live two hours without the world being catered to them. Nobody remembers the 'hip' music played during intros and pre-game but everyone will remember a beautifully sung IU fight song.
Step #2 - put an emphasis on past players
If we want to focus on players in videos then show videos all-time greats making great plays. The culture of Indiana University basketball includes its past players and its past traditions not just 'what's happening now'.
It seems clear that Archie rewards defense and offensive efficiency. Trouble is, no one is delivering enough of both (except Morgan). I mean, he can't pull a Normal Dale and play 4 guys out there.
In a perfect world, Justin Smith would learn that half-assing it will result in him watching Race Thompson, Deron Davis, or Jerome Hunter take his minutes. But, none of them can play, so he can't force Smith to either accept the culture and play hard all the time or sit and watch. Archie's only option is to put Clifton Moore in, who can't guard anyone, whether he's playing full-go or not.
Even so, this team is better than last year's, across the board. It's true that there aren't 2 guys coming in next year who will replace Romeo and Morgan. Thankfully, we'll add 4 or 5--Thompson, Hunter, TJD, probably KB, and Franklin could surprise.
Let him get is own guys in here, for crying out loud...
I wish Risley had been a bit more specific in his criticism than using a nebulous term in sports such as a team’s “culture.” How about saying the biggest problem is competitiveness, toughness, lack of accountability, poor coaching, poor fundamentals, poor shooting, etc. In D-bag Dakich’s interview with Ted Kitchel the other day, Ted said that the team won’t be able to turn the corner until losing hurts more than the love of winning. I think that means coming out and playing with a competitiveness and fire from the get go to show just how much you hate losing. Now that’s a culture I would love to see in this team.
Yeah, I'm with you. I just don't learn much from a trite, predictable, cloudy reference to culture.
Pin this at the top. SPOT ON. Frustration for us fans is very minute to what CAM and the staff feel. Mark it down.
We have a kid running around out there with a pony tail bouncing up and down...that tells me alot about the IU culture and culture in general.
Of course its not politically correct to say but if that doesnt make every IU fan cringe Id be surprised...
Maybe a coach doesnt have the right to tell him to cut his hair or at least hold it down somehow..but he doesnt have to play him until he does.
Of course its not politically correct to say but if that doesnt make every IU fan cringe Id be surprised...
Maybe a coach doesnt have the right to tell him to cut his hair or at least hold it down somehow..but he doesnt have to play him until he does.
Haarms says hello. That is the least of CAM'S worries.
Bill Walton tells a great story about playing for John Wooden. Bill is in the middle of his freshman year, he's playing well, practicing well. The team has a rule against facial hair. Being the hippy he is, he decides he is going to ask coach Wooden. He says "coach I practice hard, play hard, grades are good, do everything you ask, I'm a grown man and I should be able to choose how I wear my facial hair". Coach Wooden replies "Bill you are absolutely right, you are a grown man and make your own choices and you absolutely CAN grow facial hair"...…..
"We sure are going to miss having you on the team though"
"We sure are going to miss having you on the team though"
Real nice comment. You have no idea of what you are talking about or how much pain has been relieved by professionals who have to deal with the fear you bring to others by making those kinds of cute remarks. Thanks! Do agree it is hell living with the talk from people while living in Purdue country. IUSD grad from the 60’s. Have seen the great days and these days, but still love I.U.
i agree with almost all of that. the exception is as a head coach, i am not selling, i'm telling. you do it how i say because i've been doing it for a lot longer than the kids and my teams always won. don't like it? find another team
i hate the blaring hip hop at games. the nba can suck it. fiu home games suck it too. arena announcers screaming a drawn out name on made 3 pointers too. guess i am old enough to appreciate the buzz of the crowd and a natural sports environment.
personally, glad to be shorn of the mop lady. now if glass can do something about those ridiculous band uniforms. they look like they work at kentucky fried chicken for christ sakes
i used to have the same rule for my teams until the administration at one told me to drop it because of parental complaint(s)
Teams do the overblown announcer, music, etc when they don't have a raucous home crowd.
Isn't that what cheerleaders are for? Tell them to get the crowd making noise or turn in their uniforms. Easy choice.
