Because there was nothing to rebuild. We won the big ten in 2016. We are top five in social media following, we are top five most valuable programs. We are a known program. We were preseason top 25 with two projected for the nba. Crean had a rebuild. What did Archie have to rebuild? Nothing. He just underperformed. He had bad luck with injuries AND he lost the team. Failed to motivate them, whatever. It’s on him. This team vastly underperformed and Archie has been a disappointment. Shxt happens. Hopefully next year is better. If not I wouldn’t give him a 4th.
Pure comedy
- Thread starter wawasee
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Well...most of that is complete nonsense. So a "top five social media following" means no rebuild is necessary when your top three scorers leave and the coach is fired for failure to perform and poor recruiting/roster management...do I have that right...?
I'll ignore the rest of that stupid ish and focus on everything else you stated.
Archie was gifted a roster where two of the scholarship athletes were Grant Gelon and Tim Priller. And Josh Newkirk was the starting point guard. Think about that for a second.
Preseason top 25...? Show us the poll. Indiana started the season unranked. I'd hardly call your claim revisionist history since this season isn't even over yet. But nice try.
Two players projected for the NBA...? Romeo and...who...? Morgan? Haha, yeah right.
This season Miller started two Freshmen and two Sophomores, with a limited bench and thin in the post. All because the last guy was straight up garbage with regards to roster management. Yeah, nothing to rebuild at all.
You've been here all of a week (although something tells me you're hardly new around here)...Take this sh!t and sell it somewhere else. Nobody's buying it.
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HA I do remember you were Crean’s biggest fan a few years ago. Shocker you haven’t learned.
Lol guy. So hostile on a basketball message board. 28 th 29th. Okay lol. Pretty close. And if you google preseason cbs poll at one point iu was #25. As for frosh and soph more, again a silly point. Half the programs out there are playing similar rosters with far less of the advantages that iu has. A team that competes can be assembled in a single year. I played a D1 sport. It’s not rocket science. Archie under achieved. Pretty clear to everyone but you and a few others. And no I am not new with a fake handle. I have been posting off and on for 20 years when I’m in the mood as none of this is impt enough to get angry over. I just lost my sign in. I was just mcmurtry.
Silly point? Like you bringing up Indiana's social media presence as a reason that this isn't a rebuild? Hard to get much more silly than that.
Quoting a CBS poll seems pretty silly too. But here you are doubling down on it.
Uh...I never disagreed that Archie didn't underachieve. I've even stated so on this very board. Pretty clear to me as well.
Indiana competed. They were 12-2 at the end of the year. Started Conference play 3-0. Then obviously something happened. Injuries, chemistry issues, etc...things like that happen. You think Archie just suddenly forgot how to coach between January and March..?
I would think a former Div. I athlete would know this.
I wouldn't classify the situation as a total rebuild. He took over in a down year, yes, but not total rebuild IMO. I was very satisfied with the team's results and direction under CAM until after Xmas. We were 12-2 and a couple inches away from being 13-1. We had played some bad ball but found ways to win and played some pretty good ball and beat some decent teams. Whatever happened around Xmas, Archie did not handle very well at all. Maybe not really fair to him to have to deal with shiz like that while trying to learn how to jump-start a program the likes of IU but no way should this team have gone 1-12 or whatever it was. He did not try to modify the offense at all (which was horrid during most of that stretch) and he is ultimately responsible for losing the team. I give him credit for having diligence and patience and righting the ship to a certain extent. Next year tells the tale.
Agree, it is not the player necessarily but the optics of the situation. Brooks was considered a lock for IU and then the mid-season melt down and now is going to UK. Ouch. Double whammy.
Two freshmen and two Sophomores starting...one year to recruit one class (no that Sophomore class isn't his). The toughest B10 in memory (so far 5-0 in the tourney). No postseason last year while graduating 5, last year. 2 scholorship seniors with ONE playing a key role. Time to be realistic?
This isn't professional sports where you can replace an entire roster in one or two seasons with free agency, the draft, and trades. They lost FIVE seniors last year and had 3 scholorship Juniors and seniors play roles on this team. Archie had ~a month to recruit and evaluate that Sophomore class and ~one year to recruit the players he did for the Freshman class. The roster was beat up enough to not be able to practice 5 on 5 most of the year. At best, preseason, we were thinking competing for the B10 championship, with EVERYTHING going right. That didn't happen, and we were closer to what the "experts" predicted (9th in the B10). We made a tourney we couldn't make last year and improved in overall record despite being extremely young on a team all but 6 players (counting Fitz) were brought in by the last coach and that is dominated by Freshmen and Sophomores. I'll happily agree, if we don't see improvement next year, the seat will be hot. However, have some close to realistic expectations. Young players are inconsistent (unless they are Zion level and went to an academy designed to get them ready for the NBA for HS). Thankfully, I think everyone who makes those decisions understands the roster situation better than you....
Its a good thing we can make sure every coach has a comperable roster so we can make accurate judgements on each coach rather than going entirely on opionion, huh? See my posts above. There is no way we can accurately make a judgement on him. There are things we can start to judge about him. Did we see improvement from last year to this, despite losing 5 players with one year to recruit? Obviously. Did we see improvement throughout the year? Yes, unless you are blind. What does his 2nd year recruiting class look like? So far, a 5* true center and a 4* 6'5 shooting guard Purdue really wanted. There certainly are areas Archie can improve (as with every single person in everything they do in the entire world!). He is a 40 year old (very young) coach with a great reputation and solid track record. Most importantly, the program has improved by leaps and bounds over Crean's last few years. It shouldn't be that difficult to understand.....
I don't know how influential or not social media is - i presume it can be used as a barometer for program recognition/relevance. i know duke makes a big deal out of their social media presence and where they rank compared to other schools. i understand the more relevant the program is the easier it is to bring in players, etc. that said it's conjecture on my part as i am older and not a social media guy.
fair point obviously on injuries. i think where i differ (in particular to darkhawk returns below) is that i did not see progress or improvement this year. i saw a coach who lost his team. injuries happen but the intensity in so many games was just awful. it looked like a coach who was clueless as to how to motivate/manage a team in 12 out of 13 losses or whatever. and i agree injuries were a major impact in this season - but that had little to do with effort etc we saw.
Anyway, i'm probably being too harsh. and pissing and moaning doesn't do anything. hopefully next year will be better.
That's odd, given that I rarely if ever posted on the basketball board during Tom Crean's tenure here. If I did, I damn sure wasn't defending Tom Crean's coaching.
Sorry for your senility. But your post explains a lot about why you constantly remember shit that didn't happen. I'll try to take it easy on you during the short time you might have left before you lose all your faculties.
I can respect all that. No question it's been a frustrating season.
Here's to better times ahead.
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