Prison movie conundrum - "Felon"

[mattndallas]

Watching this movie "Felon"... Steven Dorff, Val Kilmer... pretty cool.

Anyway, the story begins when Dorff, a family guy with a wife and kid, has a home invasion one night. After a brief struggle, chases the guy out the front door. Intruder he's chasing reaches for something (apparently Dorff's wallet he had in his pocket), and Dorff (swinging for the shoulder) hits him in the head with a baseball bat, killing him.

As the intruder was fleeing and unarmed, Dorff gets sent to the state pen for "involuntary manslaughter" (takes a plea).

Fair or unfair?

Baseball bat technically is a deadly weapon, and the guy WAS fleeing, and unarmed.

That said, he did break into a home, steal property, and appeared to "reaching" during the brief pursuit (wasn't a Derek Vinyard-style curb stomp execution like in American History X). The death was clearly an 'accident".

What's your take?

 

[SqueakyClean]

This is actually fairly true from what I have heard (though IANAL). I have been told by a police officer that if a man breaks into your house and then attempts to escape, and you end up physically assaulting him, make sure that either A) he is still within the house or B) if he was outside of the house, drag the body back inside before the police arrive.

It kinda goes hand-in-hand with self-defense laws. If someone comes up to you on the street and punches you in the face, you have every right to do everything in your power to get him to stop. More so if he has a weapon. At that point, everything that results to the attacker is part of your ability to defend yourself, even if the result is the assailant's death.

BUT

The second that he becomes NOT a threat (ie, he disengages from the fight and tries to flee the situation), your right to defend yourself has ended. If you choose to reengage (ie. chase after him), you lose your right to claim self defense.

This topic was discussed about a year ago when there was that guy in Texas in the restaurant that they caught on video. A robber came in with a gun and was taking everyone's money. He turned his back on a customer in the restaurant who pulled out a gun and shot the robber in the back. The robber fell to the ground, the customer put two more bullets into him. In the process, the robber lost his gun (went skidding across the floor). The customer then proceeded to walk up behind the robber and put one more bullet into the back of the robber's head. Now, it really only happened over the course of a couple of seconds, but it was an interesting case because it came REAAAAALLLLY close to crossing that line between self defense and murder. The first shot, absolutely justified. The next two, sure. That third one, execution style......hmmmmm. The customer was not charged with anything, but honestly, I think he was lucky that this event happened in Texas instead of California.

 

[jet812]

Watching this movie "Felon"... Steven Dorff, Val Kilmer... pretty cool.

Anyway, the story begins when Dorff, a family guy with a wife and kid, has a home invasion one night. After a brief struggle, chases the guy out the front door. Intruder he's chasing reaches for something (apparently Dorff's wallet he had in his pocket), and Dorff (swinging for the shoulder) hits him in the head with a baseball bat, killing him.

As the intruder was fleeing and unarmed, Dorff gets sent to the state pen for "involuntary manslaughter" (takes a plea).

Fair or unfair?

Baseball bat technically is a deadly weapon, and the guy WAS fleeing, and unarmed.

That said, he did break into a home, steal property, and appeared to "reaching" during the brief pursuit (wasn't a Derek Vinyard-style curb stomp execution like in American History X). The death was clearly an 'accident".

What's your take?

It should be ok to kill someone in situations like this. People that do so should be given a medal for contributing to the betterment of society. We see enough repeat offenders…

 

[DANC]

Watching this movie "Felon"... Steven Dorff, Val Kilmer... pretty cool.

Anyway, the story begins when Dorff, a family guy with a wife and kid, has a home invasion one night. After a brief struggle, chases the guy out the front door. Intruder he's chasing reaches for something (apparently Dorff's wallet he had in his pocket), and Dorff (swinging for the shoulder) hits him in the head with a baseball bat, killing him.

As the intruder was fleeing and unarmed, Dorff gets sent to the state pen for "involuntary manslaughter" (takes a plea).

Fair or unfair?

Baseball bat technically is a deadly weapon, and the guy WAS fleeing, and unarmed.

That said, he did break into a home, steal property, and appeared to "reaching" during the brief pursuit (wasn't a Derek Vinyard-style curb stomp execution like in American History X). The death was clearly an 'accident".

What's your take?

Real life story in the Kokomo paper today, sort of similar (not exactly).

Guy1 goes to a house where a party is going on. Guy1 sees another guy - guy2 - shoot another one in the head. Guy1 gets up to confrong Guy2 and Guy2 shoots at Guy1 and misses.

Guy2 runs out of the house but stays in the yard. Guy1 grabs a shotgun and goes outside and they start a gunfight. In the middle of the gunfight, Guy1 goes in to reload his shotgun. Then goes outside and shoots and kills Guy2.

Guy1 is found NOT guilty, even though he could have either stayed in the house or gone out the back door when he went back inside to reload.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Real life story in the Kokomo paper today, sort of similar (not exactly).

Guy1 goes to a house where a party is going on. Guy1 sees another guy - guy2 - shoot another one in the head. Guy1 gets up to confrong Guy2 and Guy2 shoots at Guy1 and misses.

Guy2 runs out of the house but stays in the yard. Guy1 grabs a shotgun and goes outside and they start a gunfight. In the middle of the gunfight, Guy1 goes in to reload his shotgun. Then goes outside and shoots and kills Guy2.

Guy1 is found NOT guilty, even though he could have either stayed in the house or gone out the back door when he went back inside to reload.

Interesting. Curious of some of the details (I may have to look this one up later).

If I had to guess, it sounds like Guy 2 stuck around too long. That is why Guy 1 was not charged. Since guy 2 was (I would assume) still firing off shots back towards the house (even after Guy 1 went to reload), he was still engaging in the fight and putting Guy 1's life in jeopardy, thus Guy 1 still has the right to defend himself with lethal response.

 

[mattndallas]

Real life story in the Kokomo paper today, sort of similar (not exactly).

Guy1 goes to a house where a party is going on. Guy1 sees another guy - guy2 - shoot another one in the head. Guy1 gets up to confrong Guy2 and Guy2 shoots at Guy1 and misses.

Guy2 runs out of the house but stays in the yard. Guy1 grabs a shotgun and goes outside and they start a gunfight. In the middle of the gunfight, Guy1 goes in to reload his shotgun. Then goes outside and shoots and kills Guy2.

Guy1 is found NOT guilty, even though he could have either stayed in the house or gone out the back door when he went back inside to reload.

😄

 

[larsIU]

Also, this thread title.

Pick up the soap or not pick up the soap.
Bitch or bull?
How many toothbrushes can I fit in my ass

You see where this is going

 

[DANC]

Interesting. Curious of some of the details (I may have to look this one up later).

If I had to guess, it sounds like Guy 2 stuck around too long. That is why Guy 1 was not charged. Since guy 2 was (I would assume) still firing off shots back towards the house (even after Guy 1 went to reload), he was still engaging in the fight and putting Guy 1's life in jeopardy, thus Guy 1 still has the right to defend himself with lethal response.

I know the prosecutor - or know someone who knows him. He pointed out Guy 1 could have stayed in the house or left out the back door. The initial engagement was considered self-defense. It's when he went in to reload that it became optional.

Obviously, the jury disagreed.

The rest of the story is, these were all druggies and not considered much of a loss to society that Guy 2 got killed. It would have been a bonus if Guy 1 had been sent to prison.

It's in the Kokomo Tribune

 

[mattndallas]

This was a weird death 15 years or so ago in Dallas. Carter was in a band with a buddy of ours called Sorta. The shooter was never charged. Carter was like 6'5", thus the deadly warning shot...

Girlfriend Believes Chantix Contributed to Texas Musician's Death

Girlfriend believes Chantix and alcohol caused Texas man's bizarre behavior.

abcnews.go.com

In the pre-dawn hours of 3 September 2007, Albrecht was shot and killed by his girlfriend's neighbor, William "Smokey" Logg, ironically also a local musician of some renown.[9] After having some drinks with his girlfriend Ryann Rathbone at a Dallas bar, Albrecht became intoxicated. Rathbone drove him to her house, and they both took their dose of controversial prescription smoking cessation drug Chantix. A short while later, Albrecht began speaking incoherently, broke a drinking glass on a table, and hit Rathbone several times, something he had never done before. She ran outside, and Albrecht followed. Rathbone re-entered her home and locked the doors behind her. Albrecht yelled and pounded on her front door in an unsuccessful attempt to reenter her house.

At this point, Albrecht went into Logg's backyard, apparently mistaking that yard for Rathbone's. Logg and his wife were awakened by the loud pounding and yelling at their back door. Logg told Albrecht to stop, but he did not; Logg then says he fired a "warning shot" through the door. The door was made of thick, opaque glass, and the porch was well lit. The shot hit the 6' 5" Albrecht in the head, and he died at the scene.[10] No charges were filed.[11] This effectively ended the band.[12]

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

This came up with those dudes from Texas where the one guy shoved the owner off his own porch and the owner turned and shot him dead. At that point, the dead guy was technically in the house while the owner wasnt. I think we discussed it here at the time.

No Criminal Charges Against Texas Man Who Shot and Killed Girlfriend's Ex-Husband During Front Porch Custody Fight

A Texas man who was seen on video shooting his girlfriend's ex-husband to death during a custody fight will not be criminally charged.

lawandcrime.com