Politicizing straws

[td75]

What a world!!! I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have a civil war in the next decade. The amount of politicizing in this country WILL NOT end well...

For the record, I'm a proud white man who was never particularly political. The world went Ape sh!t political and forced my hand...It's mind boggling...And Big Dick Don is right, paper straws don't suck particularly well; it's just pathetic that a straw is a political hot potato!!

 

[mcmurtry66]

What a world!!! I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have a civil war in the next decade. The amount of politicizing in this country WILL NOT end well...

For the record, I'm a proud white man who was never particularly political. The world went Ape sh!t political and forced my hand...It's mind boggling...And Big Dick Don is right, paper straws don't suck particularly well; it's just pathetic that a straw is a political hot potato!!

Civil war is coming. My suggestion to you is to be on the right side of it. Our Capitol is Auburn, Indiana.

God bless

 

[76-1]

In my personal opinion, All straws suck...

That is all.

Carry On.

 

[mrhighlife]

If you're older than 6 and you're concerned about straws then it's a you problem.

In a civil war I want to be on the side with the adults who don't give a shit about straws.

 

[Univee2]

What a world!!! I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have a civil war in the next decade. The amount of politicizing in this country WILL NOT end well...

For the record, I'm a proud white man who was never particularly political. The world went Ape sh!t political and forced my hand...It's mind boggling...And Big Dick Don is right, paper straws don't suck particularly well; it's just pathetic that a straw is a political hot potato!!

Who even uses straws, except for little kids? Plastic straws did/do make great pea shooters, however, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

 

[mrhighlife]

If you're older than 6 and you're concerned about straws then it's a you problem.

In a civil war I want to be on the side with the adults who don't give a shit about straws.

The same dip shits worried about paper straws probably also prefer boneless wings(nuggets let's be real) over traditional.

 

[Univee2]

In my personal opinion, All straws suck...

That is all.

Carry On.

DOGE should look into how many taxpayer dollars have gone into buying straws. We can balance the budget.

Go to a restaurant. Two couples. They bring water and a straw. How many of those straws never get used and are then removed and trashed by the bus boys? Trillions. Gotta be trillions. In the Pentagon and all those agencies. Commissaries and mess halls. Dining rooms in bureaucratic agencies.

It’s another evil commie plot.

 

[mcmurtry66]

DOGE should look into how many taxpayer dollars have gone into buying straws. We can balance the budget.

Go to a restaurant. Two couples. They bring water and a straw. How many of those straws never get used and are then removed and trashed by the bus boys? Trillions. Gotta be trillions. In the Pentagon and all those agencies. Commissaries and mess halls. Dining rooms in bureaucratic agencies.

It’s another evil commie plot.

We’re long past straws imo. It’s time to fight. Enough is enough if we want to preserve this country. I’m ready.

For me a June attack makes the most sense. Winter is out. Obviously. It’s cold. Good television is over in June. The best sports are over. Then we have to wrap it up by mid august. Fall is soccer. Halloween. Best season of the year. Basically two months to fight

 

[Eppy99]

The world went to sh*t when New Coke was introduced. At least that mistake was corrected.

 

[Univee2]

We’re long past straws imo. It’s time to fight. Enough is enough if we want to preserve this country. I’m ready.

For me a June attack makes the most sense. Winter is out. Obviously. It’s cold. Good television is over in June. The best sports are over. Then we have to wrap it up by mid august. Fall is soccer. Halloween. Best season of the year. Basically two months to fight

$5.00. S******. You know better.

And the subtle dig at America’s Pastime. Beer and a hot dog. “Gimme me a straw for that beer,” said no one ever.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

If you're older than 6 and you're concerned about straws then it's a you problem.

In a civil war I want to be on the side with the adults who don't give a shit about straws.

While I agree with this...

...I would chime in to say that the people bitching about paper straws weren't the ones who started this. It was the people who moved to get rid of plastic straws who started it.

Do they count in your "you problem" thing?

 

[Univee2]

While I agree with this...

...I would chime in to say that the people bitching about paper straws weren't the ones who started this. It was the people who moved to get rid of plastic straws who started it.

Do they count in your "you problem" thing?

Yeah, and we had washers and dryers and dishwashers that got things clean, in much less time, and lasted longer.

But, progress. Efficiency.

Blech.

 

[76-1]

We’re long past straws imo. It’s time to fight. Enough is enough if we want to preserve this country. I’m ready.

For me a June attack makes the most sense. Winter is out. Obviously. It’s cold. Good television is over in June. The best sports are over. Then we have to wrap it up by mid august. Fall is soccer. Halloween. Best season of the year. Basically two months to fight

You guys are lucky that last regimen at the FBI (the DNC "Stasi") are out scrambling to find a job or the whole board would have been under the type of scrutiny that would have put that J6 dragnet to shame... 😳😉🤣

🍺🇺🇸🍺

A couple of board members are probably frantically trying to reach now disconnected phone numbers as we speak... 😂

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

 

[larsIU]

Paper guy I see....

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Yeah, and we had washers and dryers and dishwashers that got things clean, in much less time, and lasted longer.

But, progress. Efficiency.

Blech.

I remember a few years ago when transformer efficiency standards were raised. To give you an idea how little they were raised, a dry-type 3φ 75 kVA transformer's efficiency went from 98.0% to 98.6%.

So...minimal increase, right? This nominal change increased the prices of transformers by as much as 20% -- and, of course, increased the amount of copper needed for the coils, weight, etc.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

I remember a few years ago when transformer efficiency standards were raised. To give you an idea how little they were raised, a dry-type 3φ 75 kVA transformer's efficiency went from 98.0% to 98.6%.

So...minimal increase, right? This nominal change increased the prices of transformers by as much as 20% -- and, of course, increased the amount of copper needed for the coils, weight, etc.

What does "transformer efficiency" measure exactly? Because if it means what common usage would suggest to me it means, a change from 98% to 98.6% isn't minimal at all.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

What does "transformer efficiency" measure exactly? Because if it means what common usage would suggest to me it means, a change from 98% to 98.6% isn't minimal at all.

It measures how much power comes out at the lower output voltage relative to how much comes in from the higher input voltage.

And, yes, it's a minimal gain -- when measured against cost. This change drove engineers in our world bonkers. They didn't have any issues with it until they started seeing price impacts. It sent everybody scrambling to buy up as many of the old ones as they could get their hands on. The refurb market is still picked over.

But I'd guess that the change was made by people who either didn't know or didn't care about these impacts -- or, like you, thought it was a substantial change and was thus worth the cost.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

So it's a 30% reduction in waste, essentially. Doesn't seem minimal to me.

I do understand it might not be with the cost, though. I was thinking mathematically, not practically.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

So it's a 30% reduction in waste, essentially. Doesn't seem minimal to me.

I do understand it might not be with the cost, though. I was thinking mathematically, not practically.

Heck, they could push these up close to 99.5% if they really wanted to. All it takes is more copper in the coils.

There comes a point where the juice isn't worth the squeeze -- and virtually everybody in our industry (including designers who focus on energy efficiency) would tell you that they were already at that point before these changes went into effect.

 

[mrhighlife]

While I agree with this...

...I would chime in to say that the people bitching about paper straws weren't the ones who started this. It was the people who moved to get rid of plastic straws who started it.

Do they count in your "you problem" thing?

I wouldn't characterize the folks wanting us off plastics as "starting" anything. They have valid arguments and found a seemingly viable alternative. But perhaps paper straws aren't viable? Maybe they are considerably more expensive and cause just as much harm environmentally. So yes, they would count then. If paper straws don't actually solve anything and people are just fighting for them for similar but opposite superficial ridiculous reasons, then yes.

 

[outside shooter]

Plastics are a real problem in coastal areas, particularly.

My daughter did a summer internship at a sea turtle rehab facility about 10 years ago. They treat injured turtles and other sea creatures in distress. The #1 injury besides boat strikes is the ingestion of plastics. Lots of deaths occur, and also injuries requiring surgery. Monofilament fishing line is a problem, but one that is being at least partially averted by disposal bins for line on the beaches. Next comes the grocery plastic bags. Next after that are plastic straws.

It seems like a reasonable concession to make, in coastal communities, to have a surcharge on plastic bags at grocery stores and require biodegradable straws from fast food restaurants.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Plastics are a real problem in coastal areas, particularly.

My daughter did a summer internship at a sea turtle rehab facility about 10 years ago. They treat injured turtles and other sea creatures in distress. The #1 injury besides boat strikes is the ingestion of plastics. Lots of deaths occur, and also injuries requiring surgery. Monofilament fishing line is a problem, but one that is being at least partially averted by disposal bins for line on the beaches. Next comes the grocery plastic bags. Next after that are plastic straws.

It seems like a reasonable concession to make, in coastal communities, to have a surcharge on plastic bags at grocery stores and require biodegradable straws from fast food restaurants.

Sea turtles are the "woke" marine animal.

 

[outside shooter]

Sea turtles are the "woke" marine animal.

Pretty much every other sea creature is also negatively affected by ocean plastic. Sport fish, sharks, manatees, manta rays, eels

I guess they're all "woke"?

 

[NPT]

In a civil war I want to be on the side with the adults who don't give a shit about straws.

Not me..... I want to be on the side with the most guns. 🤣

There comes a point where the juice isn't worth the squeeze -- and virtually everybody in our industry (including designers who focus on energy efficiency) would tell you that they were already at that point before these changes went into effect.

I don't know anything about how copper is produce after mining but you have to ask how much electricity(if any) did it take to produce the extra copper used.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I wouldn't characterize the folks wanting us off plastics as "starting" anything. They have valid arguments and found a seemingly viable alternative. But perhaps paper straws aren't viable? Maybe they are considerably more expensive and cause just as much harm environmentally. So yes, they would count then. If paper straws don't actually solve anything and people are just fighting for them for similar but opposite superficial ridiculous reasons, then yes.

Well, I'm just bouncing off what you said. So let's set aside the validity of their arguments for a minute.

You said that anybody over the age of 6 who's concerned about straws has a "you problem." That would include people who complain about paper straws -- but it would also include people who complain about plastic ones.

And what I mean by "starting it" is that very few people gave any thought to straws...until plastic straws started disappearing and being replaced by paper straws. And why were they replaced by paper straws? Because people (ostensibly over the age of 6) started complaining that they were harming the earth and had to be done away with.

Had they not done that, I seriously doubt you'd be hearing any complaints from anybody, of any age, about straws.

 

[mrhighlife]

Plastics are a real problem in coastal areas, particularly.

My daughter did a summer internship at a sea turtle rehab facility about 10 years ago. They treat injured turtles and other sea creatures in distress. The #1 injury besides boat strikes is the ingestion of plastics. Lots of deaths occur, and also injuries requiring surgery. Monofilament fishing line is a problem, but one that is being at least partially averted by disposal bins for line on the beaches. Next comes the grocery plastic bags. Next after that are plastic straws.

It seems like a reasonable concession to make, in coastal communities, to have a surcharge on plastic bags at grocery stores and require biodegradable straws from fast food restaurants.

I believe most plastic grocery bags are now made from the thin, faster degrading plastic. And there is an argument that paper bags have equal too or worse environmental impact. Education on using reusable bags at the grocery store is what needs to be done on that front.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Not me..... I want to be on the side with the most guns. 🤣



I don't know anything about how copper is produce after mining but you have to ask how much electricity(if any) did it take to produce the extra copper used.

Yes, of course there's that. And the added energy to manufacture and transport the (significantly heavier) new transformers. It all has to be looked at together.

For me, though, the bigger issue is the added demand this put on copper. It certainly isn't the only factor driving prices. I don't want to overstate it. But it did add to the demand.

 

[mrhighlife]

Well, I'm just bouncing off what you said. So let's set aside the validity of their arguments for a minute.

You said that anybody over the age of 6 who's concerned about straws has a "you problem." That would include people who complain about paper straws -- but it would also include people who complain about plastic ones.

And what I mean by "starting it" is that very few people gave any thought to straws...until plastic straws started disappearing and being replaced by paper straws. And why were they replaced by paper straws? Because people (ostensibly over the age of 6) started complaining that they were harming the earth and had to be done away with.

Had they not done that, I seriously doubt you'd be hearing any complaints from anybody, of any age, about straws.

The anti plastic straw people are not actually anti plastic straws. They are anti plastic and are concerned about what plastic does to the environment. They don't have a straw hang up. Unless they do. Some people may just literally only hate plastic straws and are fine with all other plastic. Those people would definitely have a problem.

 

[mrhighlife]

The anti plastic straw people are not actually anti plastic straws. They are anti plastic and are concerned about what plastic does to the environment. They don't have a straw hang up. Unless they do. Some people may just literally only hate plastic straws and are fine with all other plastic. Those people would definitely have a problem.

And you can't set aside the validity of each sides arguments.

Side A is concerned, and rightfully so, about what plastic waste is doing to our environment. This is some theory. We know it's a problem. They saw a "low hanging fruit" fix(albeit just a scratch on the surface) and decided to make the move. Probably thinking only toddlers would notice. Boys were they right. Now, does an ulterior motive exist? Maybe.

Side B is mildly inconvenienced and hates anything that might be "woke". They aren't bringing up some possible good arguments. Cost. The chemicals used to process the paper. They only bring up there own selfish issues.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

The anti plastic straw people are not actually anti plastic straws. They are anti plastic and are concerned about what plastic does to the environment. They don't have a straw hang up. Unless they do. Some people may just literally only hate plastic straws and are fine with all other plastic. Those people would definitely have a problem.

Well, if they're over 6 years old, they should exempt straws from their campaign against plastic. Because people over 6 can't have problems with straws.

My problem with what you're saying -- and I do get it, BTW -- is that you're suggesting the people who are made to endure the effects of these changes should just shut up and accept them....whether they like it or not.

It's the same mentality that led the push to use public policy to compel a transition to electric vehicles...which is turning out to be a disaster.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

And you can't set aside the validity of each sides arguments.

Side A is concerned, and rightfully so, about what plastic waste is doing to our environment. This is some theory. We know it's a problem. They saw a "low hanging fruit" fix(albeit just a scratch on the surface) and decided to make the move. Probably thinking only toddlers would notice. Boys were they right. Now, does an ulterior motive exist? Maybe.

Side B is mildly inconvenienced and hates anything that might be "woke". They aren't bringing up some possible good arguments. Cost. The chemicals used to process the paper. They only bring up there own selfish issues.

You said that anybody over the age of 6 who's concerned about straws has a problem.

But it seems to me that you don't actually believe that. You believe that anybody who complains about paper straws has a complaint that doesn't outweigh the (alleged) harm to the environment....and that they should just (ahem) suck it up.

So why not just say that instead?

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Well, if they're over 6 years old, they should exempt straws from their campaign against plastic. Because people over 6 can't have problems with straws.

My problem with what you're saying -- and I do get it, BTW -- is that you're suggesting the people who are made to endure the effects of these changes should just shut up and accept them....whether they like it or not.

It's the same mentality that led the push to use public policy to compel a transition to electric vehicles...which is turning out to be a disaster.

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I think you're way over-complicating things.

Some people think straws are unnecessary waste and want to reduce plastic waste because it harms the environment.

Others disagree either because they don't think straws/plastic wastes matters to the environment or just don't want to go with anything that inconveniences them.

Paper straws generally suck as an alternative. Easier solution might be getting people out of the habit of using straws at restaurants.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I think you're way over-complicating things.

Some people think straws are unnecessary waste and want to reduce plastic waste because it harms the environment.

Others disagree either because they don't think straws/plastic wastes matters to the environment or just don't want to go with anything that inconveniences them.

Paper straws generally suck as an alternative. Easier solution might be getting people out of the habit of using straws at restaurants.

The solution is that people who think they're unnecessary waste shouldn't use them....and stay out of everybody else's business.

 

[UncleMark]

So it's a 30% reduction in waste, essentially. Doesn't seem minimal to me.

I do understand it might not be with the cost, though. I was thinking mathematically, not practically.

You're going to blow COH's mind with that math.

 

[Mark Milton]

What a world!!! I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have a civil war in the next decade. The amount of politicizing in this country WILL NOT end well...

For the record, I'm a proud white man who was never particularly political. The world went Ape sh!t political and forced my hand...It's mind boggling...And Big Dick Don is right, paper straws don't suck particularly well; it's just pathetic that a straw is a political hot potato!!

Straws......turn in your man card TD

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

The solution is that people who think they're unnecessary waste shouldn't use them....and stay out of everybody else's business.

Some would say that about women's choice, gay rights and people spreading the gospel to non-believers.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The solution is that people who think they're unnecessary waste shouldn't use them....and stay out of everybody else's business.

It was probably overreach based on invalid numbers. That said, we have a plastic problem. We know the amount of nano plastic in humans and in our food chain is growing. We know plastics do kill fish in the oceans. So generally speaking, trying to reduce it is good. Or worded differently, there isn't a major downside to throwing away less plastic. But the US isn't the big contributor to Pacific plastic, and straws less so. So it was overreach at the same point it is fairly minor. Some people physically need straws, but other than those individuals it isn't cause for a civil war. I sometimes use straws, but mostly don't. I can't see getting worked up either way.

I am sure the ban seemed like low-hanging fruit, people would adjust to paper or no straw and life goes on. They ignored that people tend to like what they are used to and take on almost irrational behavior when it is removed (see Coke, New).

 

[mrhighlife]

You said that anybody over the age of 6 who's concerned about straws has a problem.

But it seems to me that you don't actually believe that. You believe that anybody who complains about paper straws has a complaint that doesn't outweigh the (alleged) harm to the environment....and that they should just (ahem) suck it up.

So why not just say that instead?

And I meant that and should back up and back it up. If anyone, either direction, is only arguing about this because of personal straw preferences, then they have a problem.

If this is about a bigger issue, like the environmental and economic impacts of plastic vs alternatives, then great! That is a great argument and debate.

 

[76-1]

It was probably overreach based on invalid numbers. That said, we have a plastic problem. We know the amount of nano plastic in humans and in our food chain is growing. We know plastics do kill fish in the oceans. So generally speaking, trying to reduce it is good. Or worded differently, there isn't a major downside to throwing away less plastic. But the US isn't the big contributor to Pacific plastic, and straws less so. So it was overreach at the same point it is fairly minor. Some people physically need straws, but other than those individuals it isn't cause for a civil war. I sometimes use straws, but mostly don't. I can't see getting worked up either way.

I am sure the ban seemed like low-hanging fruit, people would adjust to paper or no straw and life goes on. They ignored that people tend to like what they are used to and take on almost irrational behavior when it is removed (see Coke, New).

And who drove the plastic not paper revolution?

Happened to be around at the inception of that travesty and it was the unhinged left that foisted that upon us... How's that working out...?