OT - Since this Site Seems to Have a Hyperabundance of Medical/Constitutional Experts...

[ulrey]

Follow the science...

Of course and there are way to many fatass people in this country..

 

[gator mcCluskey]

but muh free-dumbs, Eyes dids sum re-a'searchin' ...

lmao.

You're ignoring long term health effects. Just like every other hillbilly does,.

Which in young children are what? Give us the specific data.

 

[LifeLong_IU77]

I agree with everything you're saying here. I got the vaccine about the first day I was able. It took me some effort to talk my wife into it (which is interesting considering the politicization, as I'm mostly Republican and she's mostly a Dem). But she finally gave in and is glad she did.

But I'm not surprised that so many people are resisting, if not refusing, getting the vaccine. And some of the people I know who haven't gotten it are hardly political cranks or just generally off-center. Yeah, in some cases they think the virus is overhyped hysteria. But usually I've found that they're just cautious about putting something rushed to market into their veins -- and have what is not an irrational concern about potential long-term side effects.

Personally, I think it's worth the risk. The choice between a fairly good chance at death and the possibility of a side effect down the road seems like it has Hobson's name written all over it. But you'd be surprised how many I've talked to who have more fear of the latter than the former.

You had me on every aspect,until you said "the choice between a fairly good chance at death". That is the whole problem. It in fact IS NOT, a fairly good chance at death. Tens of millions had covid,and never even knew about it. Millions more had it,and never were treated. Yes,there have been deaths,an overwhelming majority of those people had previous and ongoing health issues. But to say "a fairly good chance at death" is a gross, overstated attempt at making your logic seem more logical. 90% of healthy people who contract covid,think they have a cold,and it last about the same amount of time. This is why people don't trust the government,overstating the situation for the purpose of their agenda,whether it be from the left or right,people just don't trust anymore,and I believe that is why people are skeptical and worried about the covid vaccine. Just use FACTS!...SIMPLE,EASY,FACTS! Serious issues should not have a political spin on them in order to achieve desired goal. Jmo

 

[Champs1976]

but muh free-dumbs, Eyes dids sum re-a'searchin' ...

lmao.

You're ignoring long term health effects. Just like every other hillbilly does,.

And you are ignoring that the vax is still experimental and may have long term health effects as well, duh. I guess you're kind of stupid or just really, really poorly educated. T.M.P. you rarely examine things logically but generally just spout nonsense, how about a little "re-a-searchin" on your part as to when anywhere in the U.S. at anytime was an experimental vaccine mandated? What was it, and when? What about "my body, my choice" if women can choose to kill a living being in the womb can't they also choose not to be vaxxed with an experimental drug? My own doctor said he encouraged women that planned to have children to NOT have the vaccine until more is known.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

And you are ignoring that the vax is still experimental and may have long term health effects as well, duh. I guess you're kind of stupid or just really, really poorly educated. T.M.P. you rarely examine things logically but generally just spout nonsense, how about a little "re-a-searchin" on your part as to when anywhere in the U.S. at anytime was an experimental vaccine mandated? What was it, and when? What about "my body, my choice" if women can choose to kill a living being in the womb can't they also choose not to be vaxxed with an experimental drug? My own doctor said he encouraged women that planned to have children to NOT have the vaccine until more is known.

I agreed with your previous post about the “danger” to young kids, but this is where I think you’re wrong. The evidence is right before our eyes that you’re at greater risk from the virus than you are from the vaccine. You should be free not to take it of course. I don’t dispute that.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

You had me on every aspect,until you said "the choice between a fairly good chance at death". That is the whole problem. It in fact IS NOT, a fairly good chance at death. Tens of millions had covid,and never even knew about it. Millions more had it,and never were treated. Yes,there have been deaths,an overwhelming majority of those people had previous and ongoing health issues. But to say "a fairly good chance at death" is a gross, overstated attempt at making your logic seem more logical. 90% of healthy people who contract covid,think they have a cold,and it last about the same amount of time. This is why people don't trust the government,overstating the situation for the purpose of their agenda,whether it be from the left or right,people just don't trust anymore,and I believe that is why people are skeptical and worried about the covid vaccine. Just use FACTS!...SIMPLE,EASY,FACTS! Serious issues should not have a political spin on them in order to achieve desired goal. Jmo

I completely stand by the assertion. It’s all a matter of proper context. I realize that 1.7% doesn’t sound like a lot - and it wouldn’t be, if the reproductive number, and the resulting infection rate, wasn’t what it is. But considering the pervasiveness of infection, I very much think it’s something that must be viewed as very deadly.

Is its mortality rate on the order of the Black Plague or Spanish Flu? No, clearly not. Maybe that’s more a reflection of modern medicine or maybe it’s just not nearly as fatal as those infectious diseases were - probably some of both.

But, again, if we were to look at anything common and widespread as carrying a 1 in 58 chance of death, we’d very rationally consider that to be a highly risky thing. It just sounds low because it’s low single digits.

But there’s a reason that public health and ID pros the world over freaked out about this - and the results have vindicated their reaction.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I completely stand by the assertion. It’s all a matter of proper context. I realize that 1.7% doesn’t sound like a lot - and it wouldn’t be, if the reproductive number, and the resulting infection rate, wasn’t what it is. But considering the pervasiveness of infection, I very much think it’s something that must be viewed as very deadly.

Is its mortality rate on the order of the Black Plague or Spanish Flu? No, clearly not. Maybe that’s more a reflection of modern medicine or maybe it’s just not nearly as fatal as those infectious diseases were - probably some of both.

But, again, if we were to look at anything common and widespread as carrying a 1 in 58 chance of death, we’d very rationally consider that to be a highly risky thing. It just sounds low because it’s low single digits.

But there’s a reason that public health and ID pros the world over freaked out about this - and the results have vindicated their reaction.

Think about it this way. Ebola has a far higher case fatality rate than COVID-19. I forget what it is, but I’m thinking it’s somewhere in the 30-50% range.

A huge deal, right? Well, yes and no. Certainly a huge deal if you contract it. Get your affairs in order. But the odds of infection are several orders of magnitude lower than Covid. It isn’t nearly as transmissible. As such, EVD outbreaks have had much smaller overall public health footprints than Covid has, despite being ~15+ times as fatal.

These two relevant factors are a bit like voltage and current.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I agreed with your previous post about the “danger” to young kids, but this is where I think you’re wrong. The evidence is right before our eyes that you’re at greater risk from the virus than you are from the vaccine. You should be free not to take it of course. I don’t dispute that.

I welcome any info on either side. I tend to only get info from the skeptic side though. The hard thing for me the last few days is that I was shown that under 60 covid deaths in Indiana are very close to Indiana car crash deaths. I'm not bombarded day night from all angles about the dangers of driving. One big problem is that fence setters, who are looking for info mostly get memes, models and hyperbole from the non skeptics. Instead of trying to silence the skeptics they should be defeating them in debate.... just my opinion though.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I welcome any info on either side. I tend to only get info from the skeptic side though. The hard thing for me the last few days is that I was shown that under 60 covid deaths in Indiana are very close to Indiana car crash deaths. I'm not bombarded day night from all angles about the dangers of driving. One big problem is that fence setters, who are looking for info mostly get memes, models and hyperbole from the non skeptics. Instead of trying to silence the skeptics they should be defeating them in debate.... just my opinion though.

Compare driving fatalities with the number of drives taken every day, every month, every year, every lifetime.

Now compare it to high-skill mountain climbing deaths. Very small number of them, but a much higher percentage — because there are far fewer high-skill mountain climbs taken on an average day than car drives.

This is why you aren’t bombarded with things about the dangers of driving.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Compare driving fatalities with the number of drives taken every day, every month, every year, every lifetime.

Now compare it to high-skill mountain climbing deaths. Very small number of them, but a much higher percentage — because there are far fewer high-skill mountain climbs taken on an average day than car drives.

This is why you aren’t bombarded with things about the dangers of driving.

I'm not sure if you get my point. There were 19 under 60 covid deaths in Monroe and Tippecanoe counties combined in nearly a year and a half. Those two counties had 19 car crash deaths in 2019.
Maybe, I'm the one not getting your point, but I honestly expected many times more covid deaths than car crash deaths. Monroe county has had zero deaths under the age of 50 and last Saturday, I watched two guys get into an all out brawl on the sidewalk over vaccination of children.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I'm not sure if you get my point. There were 19 under 60 covid deaths in Monroe and Tippecanoe counties combined in nearly a year and a half. Those two counties had 19 car crash deaths in 2019.
Maybe, I'm the one not getting your point, but I honestly expected many times more covid deaths than car crash deaths. Monroe county has had zero deaths under the age of 50 and last Saturday, I watched two guys get into an all out brawl on the sidewalk over vaccination of children.

My point is that most people drive at least twice a day…at various lengths…day in and day out, year in year out. The percentage of all those drives that are fatal are minuscule. I wouldn’t hazard a guess, but I’m sure there would be several zeroes before the first non-zero digit.

Roughly 1 in 58 Americans who have had confirmed cases of Covid has died from it. Yes, I fully realize that the rate is much higher for elderly people, people with certain co-morbities, etc. I also fully realize that the chances, thus far, of a young healthy person dying from Covid are much lower than the average.

So you don’t get much just by comparing numbers of deaths. Again, compare it to high-skill mountain climbing deaths, or sky-diving. There’s a reason life insurance companies ask you if you do these things.

The numbers of deaths from those activities is far smaller than dying in a car crash. And that’s because people take a helluva lot more drives than technical mountain climbs. But which one is more dangerous?

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

The hard thing for me the last few days is that I was shown that under 60 covid deaths in Indiana are very close to Indiana car crash deaths.

Curse those old folks. True that almost 91.5% of Indiana's 14,000+ Covid fatalities have come among people 60 and older. Pretty much the same with Monroe & Tippecanoe Counties - only 19 of their 418 Covid deaths occurred among those younger than 60 (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/indiana-covid-cases.html).

So what? Can't imagine you think those over 60 somehow count for less, so is this supposed to be a reason that everyone else doesn't really need to wear a mask or get vaccinated? Not seeing why this is "hard" or has any bearing relative to rates for motor vehicle fatalities (that kill one tenth as many people annually as Covid).

National vaccination rate among those 65+ is over 90% and climbing (CDC - Vaccination Demographics & Trends), and yet the virus is blowing up in places like FL, SC, GA, MS, AR, etc. where mask-hating GOP Governors and anti-vaxers have basically welcomed the virus back into their lives. So again, what about this is "hard"?

 

[Paterfamilias]

My point is that most people drive at least twice a day…at various lengths…day in and day out, year in year out. The percentage of all those drives that are fatal are minuscule. I wouldn’t hazard a guess, but I’m sure there would be several zeroes before the first non-zero digit.

Roughly 1 in 58 Americans who have had confirmed cases of Covid has died from it. Yes, I fully realize that the rate is much higher for elderly people, people with certain co-morbities, etc. I also fully realize that the chances, thus far, of a young healthy person dying from Covid are much lower than the average.

So you don’t get much just by comparing numbers of deaths. Again, compare it to high-skill mountain climbing deaths, or sky-diving. There’s a reason life insurance companies ask you if you do these things.

The numbers of deaths from those activities is far smaller than dying in a car crash. And that’s because people take a helluva lot more drives than technical mountain climbs. But which one is more dangerous?

Okay, my bad... I get your point better now. Sorry for being a bit dense... lol. Stiil, though, if you look at the Indiana Covid Dashboard. Monroe county has had 76.9% of it's cases among the 50 and under age group. That works out to be just short of 10,000 cases with zero deaths.

Not exactly worth brawling over

 

[Paterfamilias]

Curse those old folks. True that almost 91.5% of Indiana's 14,000+ Covid fatalities have come among people 60 and older. Pretty much the same with Monroe & Tippecanoe Counties - only 19 of their 418 Covid deaths occurred among those younger than 60 (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/indiana-covid-cases.html).

So what? Can't imagine you think those over 60 somehow count for less, so is this supposed to be a reason that everyone else doesn't really need to wear a mask or get vaccinated? Not seeing why this is "hard" or has any bearing relative to rates for motor vehicle fatalities (that kill one tenth as many people annually as Covid).

National vaccination rate among those 65+ is over 90% and climbing (CDC - Vaccination Demographics & Trends), and yet the virus is blowing up in places like FL, SC, GA, MS, AR, etc. where mask-hating GOP Governors and anti-vaxers have basically welcomed the virus back into their lives. So again, what about this is "hard"?

I'm not a political person to begin with and I don't understand the almost religious personal investment into a political paradigm. We're all different though, so have at it. I'm not a medicine person. I had to take 7 days of antibiotic in 2004 and as best I can remember that's the last time I had any medication of any kind... not even over the counter symptom relief stuff.

Would I consider a vaccination for the greater good of the community? Yes... and I am considering it. That being said, I wanted as much info as possible before getting in line for a "Warp Speed" drug that only has Emergency experimental authorization. The numbers that I see so far do not inspire a fence sitter. That's all I'm saying. I might go down and do it anyway, but I most certainly do not feel comfortable with it at this point and I don't see how anybody else would. As I say though, I'm not a medicine person to begin with.

I will say that talking down to people is an extremely poor strategy!

 

[aajohn2000]

I just wish people would forget the politics and just get the vaccine. Masks = useless, vaccine = end of COVID. Ask Polio and Smallpox what they think

Believe it or not, there are others who see it differently.

“However, the virus is now so deeply embedded in the world population that, unlike polio and smallpox, eradication is unachievable. SARS-CoV-2 and its myriad mutations will likely continually circulate, much like the common cold and influenza.”

Robert W. Malone - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Vaccine inventor questions mandatory shot push, Biden’s Covid-19 strategy

The Biden Administration’s strategy to universally vaccinate in the middle of the pandemic is bad science and badly needs a reboot.

m.washingtontimes.com

 

[Crayfish57]

I'm not a political person to begin with and I don't understand the almost religious personal investment into a political paradigm. We're all different though, so have at it. I'm not a medicine person. I had to take 7 days of antibiotic in 2004 and as best I can remember that's the last time I had any medication of any kind... not even over the counter symptom relief stuff.

Would I consider a vaccination for the greater good of the community? Yes... and I am considering it. That being said, I wanted as much info as possible before getting in line for a "Warp Speed" drug that only has Emergency experimental authorization. The numbers that I see so far do not inspire a fence sitter. That's all I'm saying. I might go down and do it anyway, but I most certainly do not feel comfortable with it at this point and I don't see how anybody else would. As I say though, I'm not a medicine person to begin with.

I will say that talking down to people is an extremely poor strategy!

I got the J&J last week after looking at info. My decision had 00% to do with any kind of politics on either side but these insufferable, liberal Vax police deputies on here are ridiculous. Hoping people die and just being flat out obnoxious. Apparently a few of them have nothing else in life to actually do.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I got the J&J last week after looking at info. My decision had 00% to do with any kind of politics on either side but these insufferable, liberal Vax police deputies on here are ridiculous. Hoping people die and just being flat out obnoxious. Apparently a few of them have nothing else in life to actually do.

My cousin had the J&J. Her story is nuts. She had covid last year and got over it fine. She even donated plasma to be given to others sick with covid. She got the J&J as soon as she could... not sure when that was. She just tested positive again and this time she's lost taste and smell with bad headaches. My nephew's wife also got covid after getting vaccinated, but I don't know which one she had.

Then I've got neighbors on one side saying "You're crazy if you don't get it", while the neighbors on the other side are saying "You're crazy if you go down there for that shot."

Strange world... almost twilight zone. I mean fist fighting dog walkers are a real possibility on my street right now.. lol

 

[Crayfish57]

My cousin had the J&J. Her story is nuts. She had covid last year and got over it fine. She even donated plasma to be given to others sick with covid. She got the J&J as soon as she could... not sure when that was. She just tested positive again and this time she's lost taste and smell with bad headaches. My nephew's wife also got covid after getting vaccinated, but I don't know which one she had.

Then I've got neighbors on one side saying "You're crazy if you don't get it", while the neighbors on the other side are saying "You're crazy if you go down there for that shot."

Strange world... almost twilight zone. I mean fist fighting dog walkers are a real possibility on my street right now.. lol

I have friends the same from both sides and doesnt follow politics either. You didn't exactly make me feel good now! I'd actually like to meet a few of these vax nazi's and see just how tough they are in real life.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I have friends the same from both sides and doesnt follow politics either. You didn't exactly make me feel good now! I'd actually like to meet a few of these vax nazi's and see just how tough they are in real life.

My crazy neighbors are Republicans I'm pretty sure on either side. We all used to play poker together once a month or so and they would even take family trips together, but no more... they borderline hate each other now. They haven't laced up the gloves yet though... it would probably be a good fight to see if you're a fan of the sweet science

 

[Crayfish57]

My crazy neighbors are Republicans I'm pretty sure on either side. We all used to play poker together once a month or so and they would even take family trips together, but no more... they borderline hate each other now. They haven't laced up the gloves yet though... it would probably be a good fight to see if you're a fan of the sweet science

Be more like 2 old fat guys rolling around in the mud around here likely. The divide is ridiculous. I have not ended any friendship over politics from my end but have lost friends who did and we didn't really even talk politics.

 

[PhyloeBedoe]

I'm not sure if you get my point. There were 19 under 60 covid deaths in Monroe and Tippecanoe counties combined in nearly a year and a half. Those two counties had 19 car crash deaths in 2019.
Maybe, I'm the one not getting your point, but I honestly expected many times more covid deaths than car crash deaths. Monroe county has had zero deaths under the age of 50 and last Saturday, I watched two guys get into an all out brawl on the sidewalk over vaccination of children.

One thing to remember, and using your analogy here: those deaths in car accidents happened when the roads were essentially closed. However, Monroe county was pretty much shut down, and those fatalities still occurred. Had there been no complete shut down, no mask wearing or other precautions, then I’d say you would Have a point to compare apples to apples.

 

[ChaChaG]

I got the J&J last week after looking at info. My decision had 00% to do with any kind of politics on either side but these insufferable, liberal Vax police deputies on here are ridiculous. Hoping people die and just being flat out obnoxious. Apparently a few of them have nothing else in life to actually do.

I got the Pfizer vaccination weeks ago as I’ve stated; my Team assists in Endovascular cases, so we were included in the 1st wave of vaccinations. As I mentioned in another thread, both of my College aged kids contracted COVID with the only symptoms being some minor leg aches. My daughter subsequently got the Moderna vaccine and was REALLY sick after the first shot…. To the point where she didn’t want to get the second shot. She eventually did.

With that said, I know two people who got vaccinated and died from a PE.

What I get tired of is the “It’s all these Republican/ Trump supporters who are refusing to get vaccinated…. they’re the problem”. I have Political bias fatigue. There are examples of non-Trumpers/ Dems refusing to get vaccinated or disclose their vaccination status, but it gets ignored as it doesn’t fit the narrative. Then they post articles like the following as though that’s proof of some nefarious Republican plan:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...ericans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated?amp

Each person makes the best decision for themselves and their families…. Just ask Lebron.

 

[Paterfamilias]

One thing to remember, and using your analogy here: those deaths in car accidents happened when the roads were essentially closed. However, Monroe county was pretty much shut down, and those fatalities still occurred. Had there been no complete shut down, no mask wearing or other precautions, then I’d say you would Have a point to compare apples to apples.

The car crash stats were from 2019. My niece, who forwarded me the info, looked up 2019 stats because of the fact that 2020 had so much less car travel.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I got the Pfizer vaccination weeks ago as I’ve stated; my Team assists in Endovascular cases, so we were included in the 1st wave of vaccinations. As I mentioned in another thread, both of my College aged kids contracted COVID with the only symptoms being some minor leg aches. My daughter subsequently got the Moderna vaccine and was REALLY sick after the first shot…. To the point where she didn’t want to get the second shot. She eventually did.

With that said, I know two people who got vaccinated and died from a PE.

What I get tired of is the “It’s all these Republican/ Trump supporters who are refusing to get vaccinated…. they’re the problem”. I have Political bias fatigue. There are examples of non-Trumpers/ Dems refusing to get vaccinated or disclose their vaccination status, but it gets ignored as it doesn’t fit the narrative. Then they post articles like the following as though that’s proof of some nefarious Republican plan:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/unvaccinated-americans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated?amp

Each person makes the best decision for themselves and their families…. Just ask Lebron.

There’s a theory out there that African-Americans are the most unlikely racial demographic to get the vaccine because of residual terror over the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. I’m not saying that’s wrong, necessarily. But it would surprise me.

Just how many people today would you expect to be able to walk up to today who would know anything about that? I used to watch Jay Leno and his “man on the street” bits. Few people could even name the sitting Vice President…let alone a relatively obscure thing like that from 50+ years ago.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

I will say that talking down to people is an extremely poor strategy!

That's wasn't even close to "talking down" and calling out GOP governors isn't "investing in a political paradigm" - it's simply stating a fact. I only asked what made it "hard".

All this chatter about 'unproven' drugs you'd think this was the scientific/medical community's first go around with stimulating immune responses in the human body. It's not - smallpox vaccines were introduced in 1796 and of the dozens of vaccines that followed, the only ones that posed any risk to human health were those that contained live (and in problem cases, contaminated) virus.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines contain no live virus - just harmless proteins specific to and derived from the Covid virus that stimulate the body to prepare for counteracting any future appearance by the same/similar proteins incorporated into a live Coronovirus. The body responds in the same (albeit milder) way it would to having an actual infection, and so if the virus ever shows up, the immune response is already 'uploaded' and essentially instantaneous.

Definitely can't see anyone getting into a fistfight over this. Am personally indifferent to whether folks get vaccinated or not, just don't like the trend toward misinformation and scientific contempt. Good chance no one on this forum ever had polio but then that's not an accident - everyone here has had the polio vaccine.

 

[ChaChaG]

There’s a theory out there that African-Americans are the most unlikely racial demographic to get the vaccine because of residual terror over the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. I’m not saying that’s wrong, necessarily. But it would surprise me.

Just how many people today would you expect to be able to walk up to today who would know anything about that? I used to watch Jay Leno and his “man on the street” bits. Few people could even name the sitting Vice President…let alone a relatively obscure thing like that from 50+ years ago.

That’s an interesting take Crazy. I truly hope that everyone who can and wants the vaccine can get the vaccine. If what you say is true (and I hope it’s not true); I hope that they can educate the Community to assuage any fears they may have so individuals can make the proper decision for themselves and their families.

I consider myself a fairly reasonable person. I got vaccinated because I was going to be around patients/ people who are immunocompromised. If a store requires a mask, my wife and I wear one without complaining…. It’s not a big deal.

I get really frustrated when people make it a political issue and it’s THAT specific group that’s the issue. When in reality there are individuals on both sides of the political aisle who are digging their heels in. If people weren’t so caustic and petulant in their approaches …. It might be an opportunity for an actual cogent discussion on the topic.

Stay well.

 

[Paterfamilias]

That's wasn't even close to "talking down" and calling out GOP governors isn't "investing in a political paradigm" - it's simply stating a fact. I only asked what made it "hard".

All this chatter about 'unproven' drugs you'd think this was the scientific/medical community's first go around with stimulating immune responses in the human body. It's not - smallpox vaccines were introduced in 1796 and of the dozens of vaccines that followed, the only ones that posed any risk to human health were those that contained live (and in problem cases, contaminated) virus.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines contain no live virus - just harmless proteins specific to and derived from the Covid virus that stimulate the body to prepare for counteracting any future appearance by the same/similar proteins incorporated into a live Coronovirus. The body responds in the same (albeit milder) way it would to having an actual infection, and so if the virus ever shows up, the immune response is already 'uploaded' and essentially instantaneous.

Definitely can't see anyone getting into a fistfight over this. Am personally indifferent to whether folks get vaccinated or not, just don't like the trend toward misinformation and scientific contempt. Good chance no one on this forum ever had polio but then that's not an accident - everyone here has had the polio vaccine.

I didn't actually mean your response to me... sorry for the confusion. I had been reading through other posts and was picking up on a theme. It was meant as more of a generalization. As for the political stuff, it just wears thin after so long. I'm sure that your point was probably a good one.

 

[zeke4ahs]

The last 8 people who I know personally have all been vaccinated. 5 of those people are my family members. Maybe begin using the terms “immunized” and “non-immunized”. See if that changes your feelings toward those who have not gotten a shot due to already having immunity naturally.

Natural immunity only lasts about 90 days, and doctors recommend that you get vaccinated even if you have had Covid. No it doesn’t change my feelings.

 

[zeke4ahs]

It’s highly concerning to see so many people rage against others for making personal choices about their own health. The vitriol and lack of respect of a differing view is the decline of society. And the argument that people who choose not to get the vaccine are the cause is not an argument. It’s a narrative. This person is celebrating someone dying. Sad and pathetic.

How do you not understand that your personal choice effects everyone around you? People not being vaccinated are the reason we are in masks again. People not being vaccinated is the reason we will keep seeing variants. People not being vaccinated is the reason this will never go away. So yes, I’m angry. It’s pathetic that we have basically a cure for a deadly disease, it’s free and easy to get. And people are like I’ll pass, too bad about your unvaccinated kids.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Hey Zeke, what is the percentage of child deaths and mortality rates for children due to COVID? Since your research skills and knowledge levels are modest at best, here it is from the American Academy of Pediatrics:

Mortality (43 states, NYC, PR and GU reported)*​

• Among states reporting, children were 0.00%-0.26% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 7 states reported zero child deaths
• In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death

https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

So vaccinating children is in your mind a necessity? Perhaps you are too stupid to see the panic porn peddled by the media. No doubt in an earlier time you would have burned witches too.

Hey Zeke, what is the percentage of child deaths and mortality rates for children due to COVID? Since your research skills and knowledge levels are modest at best, here it is from the American Academy of Pediatrics:

Mortality (43 states, NYC, PR and GU reported)*​

• Among states reporting, children were 0.00%-0.26% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 7 states reported zero child deaths
• In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death

https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

So vaccinating children is in your mind a necessity? Perhaps you are too stupid to see the panic porn peddled by the media. No doubt in an earlier time you would have burned witches too.

Hey genius, did you even read your own link? You know, the one that talks about the increase in cases in children and hospitalization? Or the fact that we don’t have many statistics because Delta is so new? There are over 1500 children in the hospital now due to Covid. I don’t know about you, but I’d prefer to keep mine as safe as possible. I could link a few pics of kids in vents if you’d like? PS. Death is not the only tragedy in Covid. Ask a long termed. Stupid? Stupid is people who needlessly risk the lives of others because they are afraid of a vaccination.

 

[Crayfish57]

How do you not understand that your personal choice effects everyone around you? People not being vaccinated are the reason we are in masks again. People not being vaccinated is the reason we will keep seeing variants. People not being vaccinated is the reason this will never go away. So yes, I’m angry. It’s pathetic that we have basically a cure for a deadly disease, it’s free and easy to get. And people are like I’ll pass, too bad about your unvaccinated kids.

Aren't you so sweet.

 

[zeke4ahs]

And you are ignoring that the vax is still experimental and may have long term health effects as well, duh. I guess you're kind of stupid or just really, really poorly educated. T.M.P. you rarely examine things logically but generally just spout nonsense, how about a little "re-a-searchin" on your part as to when anywhere in the U.S. at anytime was an experimental vaccine mandated? What was it, and when? What about "my body, my choice" if women can choose to kill a living being in the womb can't they also choose not to be vaxxed with an experimental drug? My own doctor said he encouraged women that planned to have children to NOT have the vaccine until more is known.

What will your excuse be in less than a month when the vaccine is fully approved? Surprised that’s what your dr said, as everything I’ve seen has encouraged pregnant women to receive it to protect their babies. The vaccination had been worked on for years, using MRNA. It only had to be tested for this particular Covid strain. As I understand it, long term effects are highly unlikely, since the vaccine merely teaches your body how to respond to the virus and then leaves. Speaking of fear porn, maybe stop doing it about the vaccine?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Aren't you so sweet.

I don’t care about being sweet. I care about the people I know who have died or been long term impacted by Covid. Learned of another death today. 38 years old in Florida. I’m tired of it.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I'm not a political person to begin with and I don't understand the almost religious personal investment into a political paradigm. We're all different though, so have at it. I'm not a medicine person. I had to take 7 days of antibiotic in 2004 and as best I can remember that's the last time I had any medication of any kind... not even over the counter symptom relief stuff.

Would I consider a vaccination for the greater good of the community? Yes... and I am considering it. That being said, I wanted as much info as possible before getting in line for a "Warp Speed" drug that only has Emergency experimental authorization. The numbers that I see so far do not inspire a fence sitter. That's all I'm saying. I might go down and do it anyway, but I most certainly do not feel comfortable with it at this point and I don't see how anybody else would. As I say though, I'm not a medicine person to begin with.

I will say that talking down to people is an extremely poor strategy!

Have you spoken to your family doctor about it? I think that would be your best advice. Although many nurses are fighting getting vaccinated, I think it’s telling that doctors are about 95% fully vaccinated.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I got the Pfizer vaccination weeks ago as I’ve stated; my Team assists in Endovascular cases, so we were included in the 1st wave of vaccinations. As I mentioned in another thread, both of my College aged kids contracted COVID with the only symptoms being some minor leg aches. My daughter subsequently got the Moderna vaccine and was REALLY sick after the first shot…. To the point where she didn’t want to get the second shot. She eventually did.

With that said, I know two people who got vaccinated and died from a PE.

What I get tired of is the “It’s all these Republican/ Trump supporters who are refusing to get vaccinated…. they’re the problem”. I have Political bias fatigue. There are examples of non-Trumpers/ Dems refusing to get vaccinated or disclose their vaccination status, but it gets ignored as it doesn’t fit the narrative. Then they post articles like the following as though that’s proof of some nefarious Republican plan:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...ericans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated?amp

Each person makes the best decision for themselves and their families…. Just ask Lebron.

Of course there are examples of antivaxxers on all sides of the political spectrum. But it’s just a fact that white Republicans are getting vaxxed at a much slower rate than white Democrats. People of color are also vaccine hesitant, but for totally different reasons.

 

[zeke4ahs]

There’s a theory out there that African-Americans are the most unlikely racial demographic to get the vaccine because of residual terror over the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. I’m not saying that’s wrong, necessarily. But it would surprise me.

Just how many people today would you expect to be able to walk up to today who would know anything about that? I used to watch Jay Leno and his “man on the street” bits. Few people could even name the sitting Vice President…let alone a relatively obscure thing like that from 50+ years ago.

It’s not obscure in the Black Community though. Almost all of my friends of color who are not vaccinated mention it.

 

[ChaChaG]

Of course there are examples of antivaxxers on all sides of the political spectrum. But it’s just a fact that white Republicans are getting vaxxed at a much slower rate than white Democrats. People of color are also vaccine hesitant, but for totally different reasons.

Fact? From what source? The one you linked before?

Unvaccinated Americans Whiter, More Republican Than Vaccinated

Black and Hispanic people disproportionately make up the unvaccinated group that is waiting to see whether problems arise, poll finds

www.google.com

 

[zeke4ahs]

Also, the girls that have been sending out the info say that there is a scatterplot chart out there with every US county plotted by vaccinated% and % drop in cases. They say the r-sq is .0321 indicating that there is no relationship between vaccination acceptance and drop in cases.

I haven't seen this yet myself, but my niece said that she would send it to me tomorrow along with something they have been working on themselves. I assume that you might call that misinformation. I think that they are just data nerds and I appreciate data over words myself.

I will delete this post in an hour so it doesn't give anyone the wrong idea or anything. My main point is that there are people putting in work, trying to draw the proper conclusions for themselves. In the case of these girls they are sick and tired of having their college days ruined. So, if it's inevitable, they at least want to gain as much understanding as possible as to what it is their elders are protecting them from.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.st...lizations-and-vaccination-rates-in-us-states/ I don’t understand most of those statistics they are researching, but I certainly empathize with them not getting a true college experience. I’ve talked to so many who feel the same. I feel pretty good about what IU has planned, but we’ll see.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Fact? From what source? The one you linked before?

Unvaccinated Americans Whiter, More Republican Than Vaccinated

Black and Hispanic people disproportionately make up the unvaccinated group that is waiting to see whether problems arise, poll finds

www.google.com

How many sources would you like?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Fact? From what source? The one you linked before?

Unvaccinated Americans Whiter, More Republican Than Vaccinated

Black and Hispanic people disproportionately make up the unvaccinated group that is waiting to see whether problems arise, poll finds

www.google.com

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...refusing-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/amp/ Here’s another. I can keep going. Or you could look at blue states vs red states for vaccination rates.