Ooo boy this is gonna get ugly.....as expected.
- Thread starter Carib04
- Start date
It did work for Iowa St a couple years ago, as they had to replace everyone in 2021-22. This year they are #2 seed, so they were able to build off that nightmare. So it’s certainly possible, but I assume there was a lot of luck and better coaching going on with them.
He didn't play the "4" in any shade of exclusively this year. He was on the post more than Kelel was. And defensively, with our system, there's no such thing. You're either a dropping big, or your one of the other 4, overhelping and scrambling to recover. Any time Kelel was in the game, he was one of the "other 4", most often starting on the wing somewhere, as most opponents played some form of 4 around 1.
I will agree that he looked awful guarding the perimeter. And didn't look great making moves to the basket from the perimeter. But he did knock down some outside shots. And he did show an ability to rebound fairly well from playing away from the basket. But if Malik's struggles to adjust to more perimeter play were all on him, and everyone else was dialed in and executing...or KenPom, NET, etc... wouldn't have hovered around 100 most of the year.
The good news for Malik...not a single NBA coach employs any sort of "nail" philosophy defensively. They can't, defensive 3 second calls would be abundant. MUCH less help and recover in the NBA, which is primarily where Malik struggled.
No. You rebuild with a good coach that can build a program for the long-term.
Woody spending millions of $ on a bunch of portal players and hitting his ceiling of maybe one tourney win is the wrong way. Nothing is getting rebuilt with Woody — he has proven that.
If Woody is blamed for not developing some players, it is only fair to credit him for developing the players he does.
Again, he made a 3 almost every other game. He made 15 on the year and half of them came during a 3 game stretch against North Alabama, Kennesaw St, and Ohio State in late December. He doesn't possess a single skill set that warrants playing him in a more perimeter-oriented role. And Woodson doesn't, or shouldn't at least, have the luxury to experiment.
You can't honestly believe that. IU, Malik in particular, was horrific at guarding the 3 point line this season.
We have high school commits on the team. The scenario you described was with us in the tournament.
Several years later after some have now played together for several years. Woodson will have to try and do the same thing in one season. The odds are not in his favor.
If what woodson is doing by adding 7 or 8 portal players was such a proven great strategy everyone would be doing it. Why would anyone waste their time in gyms all summer when they could just by a team in a month each spring?
Well, Mack is the only player on the entire team to average making a 3 every game. No one else was even close, guard or big. And it doesn't surprise me that Malik was in that .5 makes per game range, like many others, since he was parked on the block most of the time.
This argument sounds eerily similar to when I'd argue TJD playing away from the basket more than he did his first 3 years at IU. Except Malik has a markedly better outside shot than TJD.
You're falling in to the trap that many others did with me and TJD, that me saying he needs to be on the perimeter more means he needs to handle the ball on dribble weaves, or dribble himself off of ball screens, or run the baseline and come off multiple screens. (short corner flashing could be a good spot for him though actually).
There are a bunch of things Malik could do on the perimeter. Pinch post at extended elbow. Screening guys like Mack, and Trey. And he could incorporate diving to the basket and pinning guys in the post as well, off that perimeter stuff. And yes, he could be a very effective high ball screen pick and pop guy. His shot is more than good enough for that. And with the right coaching, motivation, demands...he could become a nightmare on the offensive glass crashing from the perimeter.
Defensively...he'll never be Draymond Green. But again, with the right teaching and guidance, he could guard multiple positions well enough to not look like he's running around with his head cut off. Low bar, I know. But again, he wasn't the only one on our team that looked like that defensively.
And I say to what evidence do you have of that? He didn't guard opposing 5's this last season.
It’s my opinion. He’s too soft for the five and not quick footed enough for the four. I think he can improve his quickness.
If Reneau is back paired alongside another big it's going to be another miserable year. I'll leave it at that. Good luck getting any guard with a lick to buy into that again.
Two prominent big men have entered the portal in the last 24 hours, Reynaud from Stanford and Bradshaw from Kentucky and I haven't seen mention of IU linked to either. Gives me at least some hope Woodson is serious about pivoting to a modern, perimeter-oriented offense without two bigs.
I imagine the answer to that depends on more than simply a win/loss record and tourney berth. Is the team positioned for continued success with some recruiting progress that sets up IU for a more promising 25/26? Or did we squeak out 22 wins on the back of some one year portal purchases that are going to be gone and leave us starting over?
I'd hope that an evaluation would be based on more than some arbitrary number of wins or conference placement.
I’m still holding out hope that Ware comes back, so we are on different pages.
What a strange comparison.
First of all, LH was one tough SOB who was an excellent college player. Averaged a lot more points and got a lot more rebounds than MR. MR is not a tough SOB, nor anywhere near as good a college player.
Second, those ND teams he played on weren't very good. 9th in the BE when he was a JR. tied for 7th in the BE as a SR, and neither did much in the tourney.
Could be...
But we missed the tournament this year, and have zero incoming recruits.
If we make the tournament next year, and have even 1 incoming recruit...is that not "improvement" in every area?
Just playing devils advocate here, by the way. I don't think he should still be our coach. And I think if its any sort of "solid" NCAA tournament team...say similar to last years team...I'm not sure he's "fireable" at that point. They set the precedent with the raise, and with not firing him now.
I'd be happy for that team, and by definition that team would be more enjoyable to watch then this one, but I wouldn't want MW to stay on as coach unless he made changes of the sort advocated by IU North, which seems highly unlikely, as it would be an admission on his part that he's screwed the pooch to this point.
Why is it strange? Both undersized 5's with great footwork and skill around the basket capable of scoring against bigger opposition. They're actually really similar players if you watch them play. MR could average close to 20 next year playing in a friendlier system.
Harongody took a bunch of 3s...and well over half his post shot attempts came with him catching, facing up and making multiple dribble moves to the basket.
Their teams also played "positionless" basketball there for a few years, often with all 5 guys around the perimeter. It allowed guys like Jackson more open lanes to drive the basket. AND for Harongody to drive, and duck, and spin and craft his way to the basket as well.
I wouldn't say Malik is undersized for a college 5 either. He's a legit 6-9, and obviously well built. Harongody was 6-7 ish. He took quite a lot more shots away from the basket though, than Malik does.
I think you're right, which means we're screwed however it goes......
It will be interesting to see whether the portal guys we get are over-achieving lower ranked guys, or underachieving higher ranked guys.
I've posted many times, I'll always prefer that we're good. So I'll take a solid NCAA team next year, however it ends up happening. Woody is old enough that he won't be coaching IU for more than a few more years no matter what. Might as well make one of them a mildly exciting season. And maybe it will happen that he makes the NCAA, leaves the roster somewhat stable, and then we make a move or he does.
I don't think Woody should be our coach. But as long as he is, its more fun when they win.
He didn't start taking a lot of 3's until his Senior season. He had 10 combined through his first two season and took less as a junior than Reneau did this year.
And 6'9 is still undersized for a traditional 5 and even more so for Reneau considering he doesn't play above the rim. But his footwork and ability to use body to get clean looks around the basket is excellent. As was the case with Harangody.
It was a crap comparison for the reasons I stated, neither of which you addressed in your response.
Lol. He was a better scorer because he took almost 10 shots more a game you dumbass. Reneau actually a much more efficient scorer around the rim. If you want to stick to crap, keep up your "IU benefits playing with two bigs" nonsense.....I could use the laugh. Worked so well this season.
It is quite curious that a player on a tournament team, especially one with championship aspirations, would enter the portal now.
You're full of s*** if you think MR was a better college player than LH. As a soph LH averaged about 6-7 more points per every 40M played, and about over 6 more rebounds, He shot 10 points higher on his FTs and had fewer TOs, and played more minutes. Their actual per game averages were 20.4/10.6 v. 15.5/6.0.
Last edited:
I like that on the offensive end. But Malik doesn’t give any rim protection. That is crucial. Now, if one of those other 4 players happened to be 6’10” or more, very agile, and could defend the rim as well as be very versatile on offense- then great. They are around, but obviously not easy to get. And he doesn’t have to be an NBA first round pick. NW and WI have a had a few guys that fit the mold.
Soccer...we are a soccer school (disclosure: I like soccer...I just like basketball and ellipses more.)
Where on Earth did I say Reneau was a better college player than Harangody? I said they had similar games with comparable skill sets. I stand by that. I didn't say anything about production until you chimed in with nonsensical BS. Reneau is elite offensively around the basket, shot 70% at the rim this year. Why on Earth anyone would advocate him playing any other role is beyond me.
