OK lefties . . .

[Aloha Hoosier]

Worrying is like paying a debt you don’t owe. That’s you fatty.

Fatty? FAFO.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

He suggested that in the event a SS check didn’t show up one month, an honest person would call, understand the error, and not file suit when they were assured the checks would come the next month. He suggests a dishonest person screams bloody murder anytime they see a cash flow stoppage as an obvious allusion to USAID.

It was an awkward comment in an otherwise really good interview but he never suggested cutting off SS payments.

Here is what he said in that article:

“Anybody who’s been in the payment system and the processes, who knows the easiest way to find the fraudster is to stop payments and listen, because whoever screams is the one stealing,” he said. “Because my mother-in-law’s not calling, come on, your mother, 80-year-olds, 90-year-olds, they trust the government.”

He said his MiL would not call. Not that she would call and understand If that is an incorrect quote than I am wrong and freely admit it was a mistake. But I would love to see a transcript your way or an audio. It is certainly possible this was wrong, but I checked that quote in two different stories. Of course they may both have had the same root.

 

[snarlcakes]

He was on All-In this week.

Interview was pretty fascinating, I hadn’t known much about him before. For those who have seen the show Billions, the Bobby Axelrod character is supposedly partially based on him.

Gotcha. I knew some of his background story because he's a Bitcoiner. I'll check it out. Bessent was on there recently as well.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

That’s some pathetic little semantic nonsense. You understand the larger point re: Musk accessing information. There’s nothing wrong with it. Trump could do so for pretty much anyone in his administration, confirmed appointment or not.

Part of what DOGE is doing is purging old SS numbers. Now before you start I understand old SS #’s don’t mean they’re necessarily receiving payments. But to purge old SS numbers I would think it would be helpful to have access to SS numbers. That track with you?

Data integrity is important.

Just order the SSA to purge them, though purging them shouldn’t be necessary and shouldn’t be done. They should have a record of everyone that ever received SS payments. Purging everyone that shouldn’t be getting payments is something they should be doing. Once again, order the SSA to do it. Provide any assistance required.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Here is what he said in that article:

“Anybody who’s been in the payment system and the processes, who knows the easiest way to find the fraudster is to stop payments and listen, because whoever screams is the one stealing,” he said. “Because my mother-in-law’s not calling, come on, your mother, 80-year-olds, 90-year-olds, they trust the government.”

He said his MiL would not call. Not that she would call and understand If that is an incorrect quote than I am wrong and freely admit it was a mistake. But I would love to see a transcript your way or an audio. It is certainly possible this was wrong, but I checked that quote in two different stories. Of course they may both have had the same root.

I’m sure those are the exact words, but he was using SS as an analogy for the cutting of grants and contracts as they’ve done in other parts of the government. It’s clear from the context of the interview if you actually listen to it as I have. He’s saying the most hysterical, probably deserve the most scrutiny.

Evidence of this is at no point did he suggest cutting off SS payments. This admin hasn’t and they won’t.

 

[DANC]

Don't do it and arrest those that do. Like what more do you want me to say about that?

Cool. So what are you personally willing to give up in order to help alleviate the problem? I am one of the younger people on this forum. Social Security is 1/4 of the budget. Add in Medicare and we are up to a third. People want to be flippant with things that directly impact me cool, I get it. You know what doesn't impact me but is a huge, massive driver of the debt? Social Security and Medicare. Maybe old people can learn how to code or get their asses out to Walmart so we can start to really address the massive amount of spending the government does on them (33% of $6.75T) along with that massive $270 billion that is paid to lazy, unproductive suckers like me who go to work every day. (And if that sounds pretty dickheaded coming from me, I know. Now you know what Republican messaging around all of this sounds like to me.)


They can both go **** themselves. You guys don't see it now but both of those guys are hurting the conservative movement and the Republican Party. There is going to be a large MAGA hangover when this is all said and done.

I think you're too personally affected by budget cuts.

When people point out the debt, all we get back is "But Social Security". Like there's no reason to cut anything else in discretionary spending.

So we can't slash the deficit by $2 trillion. How about by $1 trillion? Does that not lower the growth of the debt? You don't think getting rid of unnecessary spending is going to pay dividends down the road when these aren't included in baseline budgeting?

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Just order the SSA to purge them, though purging them shouldn’t be necessary and shouldn’t be done. They should have a record of everyone that ever received SS payments. Purging everyone that shouldn’t be getting payments is something they should be doing. Once again, order the SSA to do it. Provide any assistance required.

Now you’re offering opinion on how and who you want to run things.

Run for office, no one is stopping you.

This is how Trump is running things. It’s legal. It’s what he more or less promised voters.

And all you guys really have is innuendo about abuse, corruption and self-dealing.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Computer security principle #1 is least privilege. If you need everyone's phone numbers to call them in, you get that but not their Social Security numbers or I9 info. If you need their tax info for payroll, you do not get their FMLA info. I have had to do this stuff for a long time.it certainly appears Musk's people have demanded and on occasion been given everything. That is just crazy to me. I am sorry if I cannot properly explain why and how wrong it is, it just is.

Heck, I am forbidden to look at any personal data on a computer I repair. I like that rule, it is a good rule that I follow religiously. If you want me to look at a file and fix a problem, I ask you to open it and not me.
I have folders with employee data set to record if I go into the folders, and record if I turn that off. I should never, ever, see anyone's employee records. It is not my job. But I have access because I handle restores. Someone deleted a file and needs it restored, I log the date and time and restore it. My log matches up with the access log and all is good. I gave my boss the job of checking access logs so I can't fudge that. I don't think he liked it, but understood why.

Some of the DOGE people are rocket scientists. I am sure they are brilliant I seriously doubt they have been trained in handling critical data. Obviously not, one tried to sell it from a previous employer and another emailed it.

 

[DANC]

You don't think a pardon will come with this?

Sorry, Marv, but as a voter for Biden, you have one helluva lot of chutzpa bringing up pardons.

 

[DANC]

People are mad about Tesla being boycotted? Worried about 401K? Does anyone want a list of corporations boycotted by conservatives? What in the wise world of sports is the difference?

Violence.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Now you’re offering opinion on how and who you want to run things.

Run for office, no one is stopping you.

This is how Trump is running things. It’s legal. It’s what he more or less promised voters.

And all you guys really have is innuendo about abuse, corruption and self-dealing.

This was never promised. The last paragraph doesn’t apply to me.

 

[DANC]

All for prosecuting these nuts, but shouldn't this be a local or state matter? If someone vandalized a bunch of Ford pickup trucks, that would be a local matter, right? What makes this a federal case? I'm interested in the legal opinions.

3 alleged Tesla attackers could face up to 20 years for Molotov cocktails

Three individuals are facing "serious charges" for allegedly using Molotov cocktails to set Tesla items on fire, the Justice Department announced.

www.usatoday.com

Ever hear of Domestic Terrorism? The Biden DOJ was big on that, remember?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Ever hear of Domestic Terrorism? The Biden DOJ was big on that, remember?

If those throwing homemade bombs are charged with that, I’m all for it.

 

[DANC]

And that's a problem.

Just think of it as going throught Melania's underwear drawer - you'd be fine with it.

 

[DANC]

If those throwing homemade bombs are charged with that, I’m all for it.

What does that have to do with it?

This is a national movement that is obviously terrorism. No bomb needed.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

What does that have to do with it?

This is a national movement that is obviously terrorism. No bomb needed.

So if some dipshit keys a Tesla you’re all about calling it domestic terrorism? Don’t the Feds have more to do than focus on vandalism?

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

So if some dipshit keys a Tesla you’re all about calling it domestic terrorism? Don’t the Feds have more to do than focus on vandalism?

I think it’s more the doxing of Tesla owners, Molotov cocktails and large scale arson that has the feds concerned.

 

[Bowlmania]

Just think of it as going throught Melania's underwear drawer - you'd be find with it.

English, please.

 

[BradStevens]

When we know the person that violated the rules and emailed that database was sanctioned we will know there are some guardrails

In the past lawyers were all up into process. What happened to that era? You haven't suggested there is a reasonable process simply because there isn't. Building a bridge without doing any math to determine if it can handle cars is a crappy way of building a bridge. Law of large numbers is that it will work, sometimes. Don't go betting on it long term

Musk fired many with no concern as to good employees vs bad. He is cutting agency locations while reducing phone support. His people have made at least two strategic blunders in emailing a secure db and having write access. None of that indicates a well thought out plan. If he does not give a damn that people who need social security, were promised social security, actually get it, why should I give a damn about his feelings? Apartheid Clyde gets the respect on this front he deserves. If he wants to institute tight controls to safeguard things, great, power to him. I see zero evidence there are any controls. A homework quiz for you, can you point me to his safeguards?

You're now arguing a lot of different things. I'll try to address them all.

I'm focused on the concern about (1) the amount of power Musk is wielding, and (2) that speculation that he is stealing the government's big data and individual medical, health, social security records of every single American. I don't think his lack of a plan bears on either issue.

From what I've read, the types of things Musk is doing do not convey "unheard of power." He's essentially an auditor or outside consultant reviewing the books and making suggestions. Yes, his suggestions are often followed but they need not be. Notice Patel and others told him to **** off so just how much power do you really think he is wielding here?

That is a separate question from his execution with DOGE, lack of care, violation of rules surrounding handling data, etc. I think DOGE has made quite a few giant blunders there, and don't think I've ever hinted otherwise. But what I'm trying to drill down on is this--has anyone actually been hurt by these procedural **** ups? I freely admit people have been hurt by lay offs--but that is a policy issue, that the President wants to see happen. So I consider that separate and apart from these screw ups and ignorance of rules surrounding data handling, etc.

As for Musk's feelings, where have I said we should give a damn about those? He's a big boy, who involved himself in govt on his own so I don't think that's a consideration here.

Who or what is Apartheid Clyde?

Re the safeguards in place right now, I don't know what they are so no, I can't point you to them. I also can't do that with the Defense Department or any number of government agencies.

 

[BradStevens]

Marv, I wonder if most here don't understand the concept of write access vs. read only. For those who don't, when someone has write access to a data set, it means that not only can they see it -- i.e. read access -- they can also change it or delete it -- i.e. write to the data set. People with write access have the keys to the kingdom. It's something that should only be granted to those with a need for it. That's what is frightening about what is reported the whiz kids have been granted. They really do have the ability to rewrite anything they can access. Read only is bad enough, but granting write access to these people is literally a huge national security issue.

Can you track the various editing done by date and time and user?

 

[mcmurtry66]

English, please.

Lol your reading comp is dogshit. What would it matter dummy.

 

[DANC]

Marv, I wonder if most here don't understand the concept of write access vs. read only. For those who don't, when someone has write access to a data set, it means that not only can they see it -- i.e. read access -- they can also change it or delete it -- i.e. write to the data set. People with write access have the keys to the kingdom. It's something that should only be granted to those with a need for it. That's what is frightening about what is reported the whiz kids have been granted. They really do have the ability to rewrite anything they can access. Read only is bad enough, but granting write access to these people is literally a huge national security issue.

I understand it quite well. Are you claiming DOGE is writing data or code?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Well, I was gonna go burn me a Tesla and drink a Bud Light, then illegally kill some vultures eating a dead skunk in the road around the corner, but I stayed home and read this thread instead.

The Tesla owner and buzzards thank y’all.

 

[DANC]

So if some dipshit keys a Tesla you’re all about calling it domestic terrorism? Don’t the Feds have more to do than focus on vandalism?

There's a difference between keying a single vehicle and doing it to multiple ones.

Just like there's a difference in keying a vehicle and setting fire to a dealership.

I would be willing to bet that anyone today caught doing any of these things have a history of violence of some kind. That's terrorism, in my opinion.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You're now arguing a lot of different things. I'll try to address them all.

I'm focused on the concern about (1) the amount of power Musk is wielding, and (2) that speculation that he is stealing the government's big data and individual medical, health, social security records of every single American. I don't think his lack of a plan bears on either issue.

From what I've read, the types of things Musk is doing do not convey "unheard of power." He's essentially an auditor or outside consultant reviewing the books and making suggestions. Yes, his suggestions are often followed but they need not be. Notice Patel and others told him to **** off so just how much power do you really think he is wielding here?

That is a separate question from his execution with DOGE, lack of care, violation of rules surrounding handling data, etc. I think DOGE has made quite a few giant blunders there, and don't think I've ever hinted otherwise. But what I'm trying to drill down on is this--has anyone actually been hurt by these procedural **** ups? I freely admit people have been hurt by lay offs--but that is a policy issue, that the President wants to see happen. So I consider that separate and apart from these screw ups and ignorance of rules surrounding data handling, etc.

As for Musk's feelings, where have I said we should give a damn about those? He's a big boy, who involved himself in govt on his own so I don't think that's a consideration here.

Who or what is Apartheid Clyde?

Re the safeguards in place right now, I don't know what they are so no, I can't point you to them. I also can't do that with the Defense Department or any number of government agencies.

I cannot prove anything has harmed anyone yet. Anytime there is a data breach I cannot prove there is harm. Often it is held onto for years before anything bad is done with the data. Exposing data is considered a breach even if no one evil gets it. Have an unencrypted laptop with Social Security numbers stolen and it is a data breach, you don't have to wait on someone to illegally use the data. For all you know, the bad actor wiped the drive without stealing the data, but it does not matter. You have to report it to the feds.

In addition, reckless action with critical information (SSN, FERPA HIPAA, is criminal in the states. I know of no federal crime, so Musk's kids are probably lucky. Though I suspect a normal employee would be fired From IU's website on Indiana's laws:

A knowing, intentional, or reckless disclosure of an SSN in violation of the new law is a felony, which carries up to 3 years' jail time and up to $10,000 in fines. A negligent disclosure is an "infraction," which carries up to 1 year jail time and up to $5,000 in fines.​

​

Similarly, any violation of the data disposal law is a misdemeanor carrying up to 60 days' jail time and up to $500 in fines; if the violation involves the data of more than 100 persons or is a second violation, then the penalties increase to up to 1 year jail time and up to $5,000 in fines.​

​

Finally, there is the possibility that violations of these laws may result in lawsuits filed against IU and/or individual personnel involved in the violations, see below.​

​

Indiana Data Protection Laws FAQ: Protecting Data: Online Safety & Security: Indiana University

This page provides detailed information on principal Indiana state data protection laws.

informationsecurity.iu.edu

Why is it wrong to hold Musk et al to the same accountability a normal employee is? I would be shocked if the feds do not have policies demanding usual and customary protection in securing data.

I have agreed we need reform. We are not under attack. They are not doing The Lord's Work. They need held to the same standards the usual caretakers are. That standard is not, "we haven't seen the data misused, so no harm no foul." You are a lawyer, you can look up how likely that defense is to succeed. In fact I will categorically bow to your legal judgement. Research it, come back and say that is a winning defense to exposing data and I will retract everything. I have been taught in many professional classes that I don't need proof the data has been misused. Maybe that is wrong.

They have an employee who sold corporate secrets to a rival. How does that not raise alarm bells anywhere?

I suspect when you see lawyers not following usual and customary rules, you get upset at them. "Hey Judge, my client admitted to the crime when we were talking" probably would not earn your respect. Allow someone who deals with data the same.

Seriously, research it, let me know if not yet found to be misused is a strong defense to accidental disclosure. I have been taught it is more like Aloha's Top Secret data, if I put it on an unencrypted laptop and lose the laptop, I have committed a crime. Now in Aloha's case, putting on the laptop is a crime. In my case, it is a violation of policy and I could be held accountable but if I keep possession I do not think it is a crime. But I know my bosses would not be happy

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Not DOGE'S fault but Trump ordered the JFK files released with Social Security numbers. Of course someone is still alive and is using that number. Crazy, never release those numbers. That person is suing. I would predict an easy win for them.

Trump defends the release of Social Security numbers in JFK files: 'We gave everything'

President Donald Trump is defending the release of Social Security numbers that were made public through the JFK files.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Ohio Guy]

@Ohio Guy when I was playing soccer in Ohio and working for the state I used to eat at the original Wendy’s.

It’s no longer there now. That area of downtown Columbus is getting a nice overhaul though.